Should disobedient Pokemon be disqualified from official battles?

[Paulisthebest]

In the anime, we have seen many Pokémon be disobedient to their trainers. However, should there be a line drawn in terms of a Pokémon not listening to its trainer in an official battle like a Pokémon League/Gym Battle, Contest/Grand Festival or a smaller tournament like Don George or the Junior World Cup?

I mean in some battles it is possible for an out of control Pokémon to actually do more harm than good in terms of beating the opponent. In some instances, it is possible for bystanders to actually get hurt during the battle.

Remember Mamoswine being tossed into the Judges’ booth during the contest battle between Dawn and James dressed up as Jesselina in the DP series?

Luckily, the audience wasn’t hurt during Dragonite’s outburst after being hit from Dragon Claw because that rampage could have really did some damage. Like Infernape’s Blaze during the 8th gym match in DP it nearly destroyed the arena with its Flamethrower.

Charizard napping caused Ash to lose in the Indigo League so that is one example of a league not taking disobedient Pokemon lightly. However, that battle with Richie was basically a free for all with neither trainer really giving commands save for Butterfree using Sleep Powder on Squirtle.

So, what do you think should a trainer be disqualified because their Pokemon doesn’t listen to it?

Minus attacks like Thrash, Outrage, etc. that “naturally” cause a Pokemon to act out of control.

 

[HumanDawn]

It doesn't happen in the games.

 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

Earning your Pokemon's trust should be one of the most basic things a Trainers has to learn. A trainer who can't earn the loyalty of his Pokemon has no business participating in the first place. Such a trainer should be disqualified.

 

[Araragi-hakase]

I always felt that they should be disqualified in tournament and contest situations, especially because it could be potentially dangerous. It's true that the Pokemon won't learn to listen to the trainer any better unless they work with it, but a contest or tournament is no place for that, and should be dealt with in practice battles among friends before a major battle. Why would you take a chance on using a Pokemon you're not sure will even listen to you against a strong opponent in an important battle, just because they're a final evo and are strong? It's not fair the trainers that took their time and are confident with their Pokemon, and know that will obey them.

The first thing that comes to my mind is what Langley said to Iris after she lost to her in the tournament: "This was Kairyu's win, not yours."

 

[John Understands]

Yes, because it could be dangerous. Say a Hydregion was acting disobedient and ate someone in the audience (that would've dark beyond belief). Immediate disqualify? Yes. It would make sense. Of course, this doesn't happen in the games because this would be horrid, but I would understand anime.

 

[Jukain]

I will say that the anime lets trainers get away with way too much. Any self-respecting institution would not dare let anyone by who cannot properly command their pokemon. Indeed, even you do win, you are not the one who won, the pokemon did. You did nothing. If these were no holds barred battles that have no rules except whoever is left standing wins, then it wouldn't matter, but I have the sense that these battles do have limits to them, that you can't just rush in nilly willy and expect to get away with it. (it might seem that way at times, but until lethal force is implemented, I refuse to believe that pokemon battles have no rules)

 

[Robo-Floatzel]

I will say that the anime lets trainers get away with way too much. Any self-respecting institution would not dare let anyone by who cannot properly command their pokemon. Indeed, even you do win, you are not the one who won, the pokemon did. You did nothing. If these were no holds barred battles that have no rules except whoever is left standing wins, then it wouldn't matter, but I have the sense that these battles do have limits to them, that you can't just rush in nilly willy and expect to get away with it. (it might seem that way at times, but until lethal force is implemented, I refuse to believe that pokemon battles have no rules)

I have to agree with you on that, the anime seems to think it's about the trainer and his/her achievements, rather than the Pokemon that did all the work for the trainer. I mean, imagine if you were a Pokemon, and you win a battle, but instead of you getting the credit, your trainer gets all the credit instead while you just get stuffed back into your Poke Ball like you were nothing, wouldn't you be a bit mad if that happened? Because if I was that Pokemon, I certainly would. When Iris won against Georgia in the recent tournament arc, Georgia had to have said the most honest thing possible: "This was Dragonite's win, not yours", with her stating that it's really the Pokemon that should receive the credit and not the trainer, since it was the Pokemon that did all the hard work, and the trainer just stood there from the sidelines.

 

[BugMite]

Oh, definitely. As I once said before, a tournament battle is not a good time for said trainer and Pokemon to work on their obedience; that should be done on their own time. Many have already stated this, but this just can't be said enough: not only would this be hazardous to the audience and both trainers in the battle arena, but because the Pokemon does what it wants, it may also defeat the opponent's Pokemon with its attacks and therefore win the battle for the trainer, effectively giving the trainer a free win.

If the PWTJC was intentionally trying to show why there should be a rule against using an unruly Pokemon in a tournament, I'd say it succeeded in that more than anything else.

 

[Paulisthebest]

These are some great answers!

My favorite would have to be the users that mentioned how a disobedient Pokemon winning a match is literally a smack in the face for trainers that had to train extremely hard to get their Pokemon to listen to them. I remember in the first movie the Water trainer talked about how hard it was to raise a Gyarados but once he did it is one of the most dependable Pokemon there is.

Not to mention Ninjask who is said to screech loudly at trainers that it feels are unworthy. Just those two examples and trainers that raised their Pokemon from 1st to 3rd stage (Dawn's Mamoswine for example) illustrate the humiliation of losing to a Pokemon that chooses to battle alone.

The only place its proper to let them battle on their own is in the Battle Salon in the Battle Frontier on Pokemon Emerald

 

[Paulisthebest]

I just thought of a situation that would probably fit into "Depends on the circumstances" category;

Two trainers are in the middle of a battle and one of their Pokemon evolves in the middle of the match and the trainer loses control of the Pokemon.

What should occur from that? I think something like that happened in the anime, but I can't think of one off of the top of my head...

 

[Shinneth]

Well, if the evolution causes the Pokemon to become dangerously disobedient, then there should still be a disqualification. It can be argued that it isn't fair, since no trainer can know when or where exactly their Pokemon might evolve, but still, the safety of the combatants and audience should be priority over "being fair" to one trainer. That can be classified under one of those "wrong place, wrong time" kind of things that just happen to unfortunate people sometimes. Just bad luck.

There ARE levels of disobedience that aren't actually dangerous at all (I voted both "Yes" and "Depends on circumstances"); Iris' Emolga was disobedient, but was always in control of itself. It should obviously still be disqualified if it refuses to do anything or Volt Switches in a battle where switching Pokemon is against the rules (which happened in the first BW movie(s), actually), but Emolga never posed as a danger to anyone. If it were to do anything similar to Dragonite (i.e. battle without listening to Iris at all), then of course the usual should occur.

It's worth noting that a non-dangerous act of disobedience DID get Ash disqualified in this series: Charizard deliberately falling asleep in battle.

It wouldn't listen to Ash, and thus was disqualified. The only difference between that Indigo League battle and the Junior Cup battle is that Dragonite still battled, but all the same, everyone could see that Dragonite was not listening to Iris at all, how insanely powerful and dangerous it was, and proved to be a threat to more than just the Pokemon it was battling against. If a sleeping Charizard - harmless to everyone - could get disqualified, why not a crazed, out-of-control Dragonite?

All in all, I think a trainer should be disqualified if their Pokemon proves to be fully disobedient and especially if it poses a threat to everyone in the arena. I'm with @Trainer Gabriel; working on getting your Pokemon to listen to you should be done on your own time, not in a tournament packed full of people who could get hurt if your Pokemon happens to be crazy powerful and inconsiderate to the damage it causes to those around it. I understand using a Pokemon you either recently got or is exceptionally inexperienced/young in a tournament, so long as they listen to you. Donamite was very helpful in developing Ash's Scraggy. Chimchar was used in both the right and wrong ways to make it stronger in the Hearthome Tag Battle tournament, by Ash and Paul respectively. Basically what I'm saying is that if the Pokemon obeys you and poses no threat to a crowd, then it's perfectly fine to use in a tournament.

Cases like Dragonite, however, were fully stupid since the whole group got to see just how powerful and ornery Dragonite was prior to Iris even catching the damn thing, so it should've been painfully obvious that battling in front of a crowd wasn't going to make a difference. It wasn't like Iris was lacking in other options, either. Georgia was entirely in the right, and it's a shame that Georgia's pretty much been demoted to comic relief because she should've been taken very seriously in that regard. Hell, she shouldn't have had to even say it; the referees/judges should understand that it's not much of a trainer battle when only one trainer is actually partaking in the battle. But it figures, the moral standards that are normally upheld in the series become irrelevant when certain factors become involved, that shall remain unnamed.

 

[Paulisthebest]

That was one of the factors of the tournament that pissed me off you got a judge and a freakin' Champion calling the matches (along with a field referee that could have gotten blow away or the two trainers on the field for that matter...). The only reason I can't wait for the dub is to hear what they say during those outbursts from Dragonite or when it doesn't listen to Iris.

I was actually waiting for Cynthia to call out Garchomp on Dragonite during its outrage in the battle with Ash to take it down before someone got hurt. Seriously, that thing was way out of control. Even in the first two matches, it was "calm" in the sense that it only took attacks and then finished off the opponent. However, I did feel bad for Mamoswine like when it got tossed really hard on the field and that overkill Dragon Rush.

If anything with the closeness that those two seemed to shared, Iris should have given the match to Dawn. Seriously, Dragonite was like a "pseudo-Paul" in that it was really trying to hurt its opponents rather than simply finishing them off. Probably more so with Mamoswine because it knew it would be a threat after that Take Down attack. Then it started battling seriously.

In all honesty, I made this thread not to be all about Iris' Dragonite it was basically about all the disobedience seen throughout the series. However, its just amazing how Dragonite is difficult NOT to talk about.

You're right Iris had more choices to battle Dawn and Georgia with. To be honest, I'd like to see her use Axew against Beartic since it learned 2 new god-powerful moves since their first battle (nearly out of nowhere...) Giga Impact and Outrage.

Considering it took those hits in other battles that it should have been knocked out from (*cough* Garchomp...) I could see it against those Blizzard and Icicle Crash attacks.

I'd take that sorry excuse for a victory at least because Axew listens to Iris.

 

[Five-Gate Omega]

I believe the case with Charizard wasn't simply the fact that he was disobedient, but rather by sleeping during battle deliberately, he was not willing to and therefore declared unable to battle. A technical KO to be more precise, which is basically Charizard throwing the towel by outright refusing to battle Ritchie's Pikachu.

 

[Paulisthebest]

I believe the case with Charizard wasn't simply the fact that he was disobedient, but rather by sleeping during battle deliberately, he was not willing to and therefore declared unable to battle. A technical KO to be more precise, which is basically Charizard throwing the towel by outright refusing to battle Ritchie's Pikachu.

I see similar to Squirtle being declared "unable to battle" by Butterfree's Sleep Powder. Instead, Charizard was declared "unwilling" to battle so that was the end of that.

During that match, Ash could really have used a Pokeflute...

 

[Caseydia]

If a disobedient Pokemon goes on a rampage and atacks everyone causing distruction, then there needs to be some boundries. Sleeping is a cause for disqualifications in the anime unless the trainer uses a sleep berry, Awakening or whatever they're called. Atleast I think it is.

 

[Paulisthebest]

If a disobedient Pokemon goes on a rampage and atacks everyone causing distruction, then there needs to be some boundries. Sleeping is a cause for disqualifications in the anime unless the trainer uses a sleep berry, Awakening or whatever they're called. Atleast I think it is.

You're right Chesto Berry, Awakening, Full Heal, Full Restore, PokeFlute can be used to wake up a sleeping Pokemon. I think with time that rule has been put out instead of making Sleep a reason for disqualification it is now correctly addressed as a status condition like Burn or Poisoned instead of disobedience. Like Ash sending out his Sleeping Snorlax against Harrison in the Johto League, or all of the Pokemon Tobais' Darkari put to sleep with Dark Void.

 

[BlazeMaster]

Iris' Dragonite won the battle nevertheless. If a Pokémon is out of control to a dangerous level, like Dragonite in the semifinals, then it should be disqualified. The same is the case if the Pokémon is inactive. If, however, they continue to battle safely, they should be allowed to continue, but after the battle be banned from competitive battling and the trainer should use a different Pokémon.

 

[Caseydia]

I agree. I'm glad that it didn't cause too much harm like Mamoswine almost did in one of Dawn's contests. I wouldn't have mind seeing that but since it didn't happen there is no reason to put Dragonite in a bag of bad apples just yet.

 

[Paulisthebest]

Yeah, the big thing about Dragonite is probably because it "decided" to let Iris run the battle but when it got hit with Dragon Claw...

You know, I think the main reason it went on that rampage was because it wasn't used to having an opponent that could measure up and actually inflict notable damage and prove to be a challenge. I guess that Dragonite doesn't really know how to handle it. So, it threw a enormous hissy fit because it got pissed off. I guess its true what they say; "You are your own worst enemy."

Think about its previous matches, I think that it tests the power of its opponents and like Flint's battle style it takes on attacks and then hits back harder. I find it interesting that the battle must be on its terms. When its in control it takes on its opponents moves one after another and then in one swoop ends the match with a power hit. Though with its ground-crocodile opponent the power that came with its evolution was more than Dragonite bargained for...

Due to that fit of rage it was completely blind as how to properly defend itself and take down its opponent. I honestly think that if Dragonite was under control I mean if it kept its cool OR listened to Iris it would have won (though I think on its own it could have won because Iris just kept calling out the same attacks, Ice Beam/Flamethrower...)

Not to stray off course of this thread but that battle just proved that Iris needs to grow A LOT as a trainer/Dragon Master like Ash did with Charizard. If the Pokemon doesn't respect its trainer there is no way it will obey them.

 

[Slipstream]

I concur. Not to mention, look at the battle Iris had against Ash with her Dragonite vs Ash's newly evolved Krookodile. The dragon went berserk, and everyone there could have been harmed if Ash didn't take it down. That should have disqualified her immediately. However, they are right, it doesn't happen within the games, so it won't happen in the anime I suppose.

Araragi Hakase, I COMPLETELY agree with you. Iris is in no way, shape, or form ready to handle Dragonite.
However, let's draw the line a bit. What about when normally obedient pokemon go on a rampage DUE to their special ability, like Infernape did with Blaze? Under normal circumstances, Infernape was PERFECTLY willing to listen to Ash, same as a Monferno and a Chimchar.