Should Emboar have a different type?

Should Emboar have a different type combination?

  • Yes

    Votes: 44 63.8%
  • No

    Votes: 25 36.2%

  • Total voters
    69

Envoy

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Yes, I'm fully aware that the odds of Game Freak changing any Pokemon's type, let alone Emboar's, are next to nil, but they'll probably never improve Serperior's stats and the jury's still out on whether Samurott even deserves Shell Smash, plus speculating is fun, so here you have it.

This is one of the more controversial things that Generation V brought with it (besides the claims of racism and the darker plot and the speculation of a Gen III remake and Samurott's typing and Oshawott's design and, well, whatever.)

So there you have it, should Emboar have gotten a different type. If so, why and which one?

My opinion:

While I have nothing against the Fire and Fighting combination and would like to refrain from comparing Emboar to it's counterparts Blaziken and the monkey since, in reality, it plays very differently from them, I do have to say that I am not happy with Emboar's typing.

Fire/Fighting is a potent combination indeed. So much so that it's debuted in three consecutive generations. However, it just feels that after the success of Blaziken and it's knockoff of a monkey counterpart in Gen IV, GF has gotten complacent and thought they could do no wrong by simply adding yet another Fire/Fighter. While it's design shows creativity and ingenuity, Emboar's type feels like a bit of a cop out. It feels like one of those "well, it worked the first time, it worked the second, so why not?" sort of things.

I know a lot of people were expecting something different from a Pokemon that looks like this:

Emboar.png

Perhaps Fire/Dark, Fire/Ground or just pure Fire? They certainly would have been more original, if only for the simple fact that they haven't been done twice before, in a row (yes, I'm fully aware of the existence of Houndour and Numel.)

Personally, I was kind of hoping to see a pure Fire type this generation, as Cyndaquil has thus been the only pure Fire type Starter (that has remained so) in the entire series so far. Meanwhile, Grass and Water types have three each (Grass: Chikorita, Treecko, Snivy. Water: Squirtle, Totodile, Oshawott.)

Still, I'm getting tired of the new Fire/Fighting standard for Fire Starters (which, I stress, is not the same as monotype Grass or Water simply because monotype is the default) and would like to see something different.

The truth is, I really like Emboar as a Pokemon (though I would like it more if it was a quadruped, but alas) and the only thing that upsets me (lack of Fire Punch notwithstanding) is it's repetitive typing. I think the Fire/Fighting type actually does it more harm than good, as it has to compete with other, more successful Pokemon who actually play nothing like it and prevent it from exploiting it's own niche.

Well, I'm done talking. If you got through this wall of text, well, hooray for you. Grab yourself a cookie. Now, what are your opinions on this issue?
 
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There are several reasons why Emboar is Fire/Fighting:

- Neutral damage to Stealth Rock (Game Freak really wanted to improve starter Pokemon after the "mediocrity" of Kanto and Johto's, especially the most iconic starter, so they can be useful in the competitive play with or without the Dream World)
- It's suppose to go with the theme Infernape is going (Journey to the West reference)
- It's dex entry contradicts the Fire/Dark idea

The only thing it needs improving on is that Game Freak needs to buff Flame Charge for it to abuse in order to fix its speed, and I'll totally use it over Flare Blitz.

I even thought of an idea for another Fire/Fighting starter for next gen (apart of it being an inspiration to Street Fighter).
 
-Fire/Ground provides the same neutrality to Stealth Rock without the repetitiveness of Fire/Fighting. Besides, not everything GF does is geared towards competitive battling, especially not Smogon's competitive rules. They already removed Stealth Rock as a TM, what more did they need?

-I thought the pig in Journey to the West was associated with Water, not Fire.

-Different typing=Different Dex entry.
 
There are several reasons why Emboar is Fire/Fighting:

- Neutral damage to Stealth Rock (Game Freak really wanted to improve starter Pokemon after the "mediocrity" of Kanto and Johto's, especially the most iconic starter, so they can be useful in the competitive play with or without the Dream World)
- It's suppose to go with the theme Infernape is going (Journey to the West reference)
- It's dex entry contradicts the Fire/Dark idea

The only thing it needs improving on is that Game Freak needs to buff Flame Charge for it to abuse.

I even thought of an idea for another Fire/Fighting starter for next gen (apart of it being an inspiration to Street Fighter).

- Who cares about SR? He's the least popular Fire Starter ever... the onlyStarter he's more useful then is Meganium which doesn't say much.... his horrid defese makes his high HP useless plus his stats make him a Blazakin clone...

-Thats part of the reason hardly anybody likes him he's a Infernape expy and expy of an expy... not creative..

-GOD NO!!! not another Fire/Fighting starter 3 is enough and seeing Emboar's unpopularity I doubt fans would be happy
 
There are several reasons why Emboar is Fire/Fighting:

- Neutral damage to Stealth Rock (Game Freak really wanted to improve starter Pokemon after the "mediocrity" of Kanto and Johto's, especially the most iconic starter, so they can be useful in the competitive play with or without the Dream World)
- It's suppose to go with the theme Infernape is going (Journey to the West reference)
- It's dex entry contradicts the Fire/Dark idea

The only thing it needs improving on is that Game Freak needs to buff Flame Charge for it to abuse.

I even thought of an idea for another Fire/Fighting starter for next gen (apart of it being an inspiration to Street Fighter).

- Who cares about SR? He's the least popular Fire Starter ever... the onlyStarter he's more useful then is Meganium which doesn't say much.... his horrid defese makes his high HP useless plus his stats make him a Blazakin clone...

Saying Meganium is more useful is just stretching it.

-Thats part of the reason hardly anybody likes him he's a Infernape expy and expy of an expy... not creative..

So are you also saying that the Musketeer trio are horrid because they're expies of the 3 Musketeers thus making them unoriginal?

-GOD NO!!! not another Fire/Fighting starter 3 is enough and seeing Emboar's unpopularity I doubt fans would be happy

Too bad, Waluigi Time! There is never enough.
 
There are several reasons why Emboar is Fire/Fighting:

- Neutral damage to Stealth Rock (Game Freak really wanted to improve starter Pokemon after the "mediocrity" of Kanto and Johto's, especially the most iconic starter, so they can be useful in the competitive play with or without the Dream World)
- It's suppose to go with the theme Infernape is going (Journey to the West reference)
- It's dex entry contradicts the Fire/Dark idea

The only thing it needs improving on is that Game Freak needs to buff Flame Charge for it to abuse.

I even thought of an idea for another Fire/Fighting starter for next gen (apart of it being an inspiration to Street Fighter).

- Who cares about SR? He's the least popular Fire Starter ever... the onlyStarter he's more useful then is Meganium which doesn't say much.... his horrid defese makes his high HP useless plus his stats make him a Blazakin clone...

Saying Meganium is more useful is just stretching it.

-Thats part of the reason hardly anybody likes him he's a Infernape expy and expy of an expy... not creative..

So are you also saying that the Musketeer trio are horrid because they're expies of the 3 Musketeers thus making them unoriginal?

-GOD NO!!! not another Fire/Fighting starter 3 is enough and seeing Emboar's unpopularity I doubt fans would be happy

Too bad, Waluigi Time! There is never enough.

No because no other Pokemon is based on the 3 Muskateers... We already got a character based on Journy from the West... and Infernape was an expy of Blaziken... and Emboar is an expy of both making him highly uncreative and like Envoysaid wans't the Pig Demon a water demon? And besides Samurott is a samaria he should've been part fighting...
 
Emboar doesn't seem like it could be any other type, IMO. Don't get me wrong- I really didn't want another Fire/Fightng starter, but I only see Bacon with that type combination.
 
There are several reasons why Emboar is Fire/Fighting:

- Neutral damage to Stealth Rock (Game Freak really wanted to improve starter Pokemon after the "mediocrity" of Kanto and Johto's, especially the most iconic starter, so they can be useful in the competitive play with or without the Dream World)
- It's suppose to go with the theme Infernape is going (Journey to the West reference)
- It's dex entry contradicts the Fire/Dark idea

The only thing it needs improving on is that Game Freak needs to buff Flame Charge for it to abuse.

I even thought of an idea for another Fire/Fighting starter for next gen (apart of it being an inspiration to Street Fighter).

- Who cares about SR? He's the least popular Fire Starter ever... the onlyStarter he's more useful then is Meganium which doesn't say much.... his horrid defese makes his high HP useless plus his stats make him a Blazakin clone...

Saying Meganium is more useful is just stretching it.

-Thats part of the reason hardly anybody likes him he's a Infernape expy and expy of an expy... not creative..

So are you also saying that the Musketeer trio are horrid because they're expies of the 3 Musketeers thus making them unoriginal?

-GOD NO!!! not another Fire/Fighting starter 3 is enough and seeing Emboar's unpopularity I doubt fans would be happy

Too bad, Waluigi Time! There is never enough.

No because no other Pokemon is based on the 3 Muskateers... We already got a character based on Journy from the West... and Infernape was an expy of Blaziken... and Emboar is an expy of both making him highly uncreative and like Envoysaid wans't the Pig Demon a water demon? And besides Samurott is a samaria he should've been part fighting...

Well they can't make him Fire/Water because it'll ruin the balance of the three starters. Speaking of water, the idea of it being Fire/Ground would also be terrible because of how common water types are in the metagame thus hindering more of his use than his original dual type. In other words, there is no better way to improve Emboar outside of Fire/Fighting.
 
There are several reasons why Emboar is Fire/Fighting:

- Neutral damage to Stealth Rock (Game Freak really wanted to improve starter Pokemon after the "mediocrity" of Kanto and Johto's, especially the most iconic starter, so they can be useful in the competitive play with or without the Dream World)
- It's suppose to go with the theme Infernape is going (Journey to the West reference)
- It's dex entry contradicts the Fire/Dark idea

The only thing it needs improving on is that Game Freak needs to buff Flame Charge for it to abuse.

I even thought of an idea for another Fire/Fighting starter for next gen (apart of it being an inspiration to Street Fighter).

- Who cares about SR? He's the least popular Fire Starter ever... the onlyStarter he's more useful then is Meganium which doesn't say much.... his horrid defese makes his high HP useless plus his stats make him a Blazakin clone...

Saying Meganium is more useful is just stretching it.

-Thats part of the reason hardly anybody likes him he's a Infernape expy and expy of an expy... not creative..

So are you also saying that the Musketeer trio are horrid because they're expies of the 3 Musketeers thus making them unoriginal?

-GOD NO!!! not another Fire/Fighting starter 3 is enough and seeing Emboar's unpopularity I doubt fans would be happy

Too bad, Waluigi Time! There is never enough.

No because no other Pokemon is based on the 3 Muskateers... We already got a character based on Journy from the West... and Infernape was an expy of Blaziken... and Emboar is an expy of both making him highly uncreative and like Envoysaid wans't the Pig Demon a water demon? And besides Samurott is a samaria he should've been part fighting...

Well they can't make him Fire/Water because it'll ruin the balance of the three starters. Speaking of water, the idea of it being Fire/Ground would also be terrible because of how common water types are in the metagame thus hindering more of his use than his original dual type. In other words, there is no better way to improve Emboar outside of Fire/Fighting.

Nah Fire/Ground is 10x's better then Fire/Fighting... STAB EQ and Chariard is 4x's weak to Rock plus Emboar is just a poor mans Blaziken I think theGround Type would benift him big-time and doesn't he learn a few Grass moves?
 
1. My point was that, since the original story had the pig associated with Water, Emboar should not have been a Fire type in the first place.

2. Stealth Rock is omnipresent in the metagame, watch Volcarona be OU. Watch Ninetales be OU. Emboar doesn't need Fire/Fighting to be useful. In fact, Fire/Ground gives it only TWO weaknesses (Ground and Water) and Ground is an excellent offensive type that can exploit Sandstorm well enough (Hello Landorous!) So, no, Fire/Fighting is not a better type than Fire/Ground. But again I say, GF doesn't have to keep the Smogon competitive metagame (or any metagame for that matter) in mind when making their Pokemon.
 
There are several reasons why Emboar is Fire/Fighting:

- Neutral damage to Stealth Rock (Game Freak really wanted to improve starter Pokemon after the "mediocrity" of Kanto and Johto's, especially the most iconic starter, so they can be useful in the competitive play with or without the Dream World)
- It's suppose to go with the theme Infernape is going (Journey to the West reference)
- It's dex entry contradicts the Fire/Dark idea

The only thing it needs improving on is that Game Freak needs to buff Flame Charge for it to abuse.

I even thought of an idea for another Fire/Fighting starter for next gen (apart of it being an inspiration to Street Fighter).

- Who cares about SR? He's the least popular Fire Starter ever... the onlyStarter he's more useful then is Meganium which doesn't say much.... his horrid defese makes his high HP useless plus his stats make him a Blazakin clone...

Saying Meganium is more useful is just stretching it.

-Thats part of the reason hardly anybody likes him he's a Infernape expy and expy of an expy... not creative..

So are you also saying that the Musketeer trio are horrid because they're expies of the 3 Musketeers thus making them unoriginal?

-GOD NO!!! not another Fire/Fighting starter 3 is enough and seeing Emboar's unpopularity I doubt fans would be happy

Too bad, Waluigi Time! There is never enough.

No because no other Pokemon is based on the 3 Muskateers... We already got a character based on Journy from the West... and Infernape was an expy of Blaziken... and Emboar is an expy of both making him highly uncreative and like Envoysaid wans't the Pig Demon a water demon? And besides Samurott is a samaria he should've been part fighting...

Well they can't make him Fire/Water because it'll ruin the balance of the three starters. Speaking of water, the idea of it being Fire/Ground would also be terrible because of how common water types are in the metagame thus hindering more of his use than his original dual type. In other words, there is no better way to improve Emboar outside of Fire/Fighting.

Nah Fire/Ground is 10x's better then Fire/Fighting... STAB EQ and Chariard is 4x's weak to Rock plus Emboar is just a poor mans Blaziken I think theGround Type would benift him big-time and doesn't he learn a few Grass moves?

You're missing the picture, Fire/Ground grants it a 4x weakness to water, which is just as bad as having a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock considering how common water types are in the metagame. The only reason Volcarona and Nintales are in OU is because of Quiver Dance and Drought respectively. It's also important for GF to keep an eye on what's going on at the metagame such as Smogon's so they could think of better ideas for next gen and later fix some of the problems.
 
Fire/Dark. Because Emboar sort of reminds me of Ganon from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

It would be pretty awesome, in my opinion. But that's really the only other alternative I can think of.
 
No because no other Pokemon is based on the 3 Muskateers... We already got a character based on Journy from the West... and Infernape was an expy of Blaziken... and Emboar is an expy of both making him highly uncreative and like Envoysaid wans't the Pig Demon a water demon? And besides Samurott is a samurai he should've been part fighting...

This. Good point. We don't have a Water/Fighting pokemon... do we?

Emboar should've been Fire/Ground. Or Fire/Steel.
 
You're missing the picture, Fire/Ground grants it a 4x weakness to water, which is just as bad as having a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock considering how common water types are in the metagame. The only reason Volcarona and Nintales are in OU is because of Quiver Dance and Drought respectively. It's also important for GF to keep an eye on what's going on at the metagame such as Smogon's so they could think of better ideas for next gen and later fix some of the problems.

Yeah, Quiver Dance, that's why Butterfree and Venomoth are OU! Wait...

TONS of OU Pokemon have quadruple weaknesses to very common attacking types. Don't believe me? Ferrothorn/Forretress/Scizor: 4x Fire. Tyranitar: 4x Fighting. Heatran/Magnezone: 4x Ground. Dragonite/Salamence/Landorous/Gliscor: 4x Ice. Gyarados: 4x Electric. Volcarona: 4x Rock.

Then there's of course, Pokemon with quadruple weaknesses to less common but still potent threats, such as: Celebi: 4x Bug. Gastrodon: 4x Grass. Toxicroak: 4x Psychic. Breloom/Virizion: 4x Flying.

What's your point?

Further, Smogon, being a mostly Western website with a mostly very niche Western audience, is probably only a blip in GF's radar. So no, they don't need to look to Smogon to figure out how to design their own game.

This. Good point. We don't have a Water/Fighting pokemon... do we?

Poliwrath is sad. :(
 
Yeah, Quiver Dance, that's why Butterfree and Venomoth are OU! Wait...

Of course, Volcarona receives more benefit from Quiver Dance than other users.

TONS of OU Pokemon have quadruple weaknesses to very common attacking types. Don't believe me? Ferrothorn/Forretress/Scizor: 4x Fire. Tyranitar: 4x Fighting. Heatran/Magnezone: 4x Ground. Dragonite/Salamence/Landorous/Gliscor: 4x Ice. Gyarados: 4x Electric. Volcarona: 4x Rock.

Then there's of course, Pokemon with quadruple weaknesses to less common but still potent threats, such as: Celebi: 4x Bug. Gastrodon: 4x Grass. Toxicroak: 4x Psychic. Breloom/Virizion: 4x Flying.

What's your point?

Have you also realize that some Pokemon who have a quadruple advantage against those Pokemon you've listed are also OU? Combined with Emboar's base stats and a Fire/Ground typing, it won't last as long as the other ground types.

Poliwrath is sad. :(

What about Kelledo?
 
Yeah, Quiver Dance, that's why Butterfree and Venomoth are OU! Wait...

Of course, Volcarona receives more benefit from Quiver Dance than other users.

TONS of OU Pokemon have quadruple weaknesses to very common attacking types. Don't believe me? Ferrothorn/Forretress/Scizor: 4x Fire. Tyranitar: 4x Fighting. Heatran/Magnezone: 4x Ground. Dragonite/Salamence/Landorous/Gliscor: 4x Ice. Gyarados: 4x Electric. Volcarona: 4x Rock.

Then there's of course, Pokemon with quadruple weaknesses to less common but still potent threats, such as: Celebi: 4x Bug. Gastrodon: 4x Grass. Toxicroak: 4x Psychic. Breloom/Virizion: 4x Flying.

What's your point?

Have you also realize that some Pokemon who have a quadruple advantage against those Pokemon you've listed are also OU? Combined with Emboar's base stats and a Fire/Ground typing, it won't last as long as the other ground types.

Poliwrath is sad. :(

What about Kelledo?

Well it would be more popular without a weakness to Psychic and Flying Pokemon... Since most of them are faster then him and can OHKO him with a STAB attack. His defense stats are mediocre at least as a ground he could seperate himself from Blaziken.. plus STAB EQ from his 123 base attack would be deadly...
 
Well it would be more popular without a weakness to Psychic and Flying Pokemon... Since most of them are faster then him and can OHKO him with a STAB attack. His defense stats are mediocre at least as a ground he could seperate himself from Blaziken.. plus STAB EQ from his 123 base attack would be deadly...

That 110 HP with its 65 Def/SpD allows it to be 2HKO'd similar to Excadrill if a SE move wasn't quadruple.
 
1. Keldeo is currently unreleased and might as well not exist yet.

2. My point was that having a 4x weakness doesn't automatically make it unusable. Besides, as a Fire/Ground type, it could easily counter Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress, HEATRAN, and Magnezone (without coverage moves.) It can also handle the likes of Celebi, Venusaur, Virizion, Breloom, Ninetales, Tyranitar, the monkey, Jirachi, Jolteon, Lucario, Metagross, Skarmory and Toxicroak (though not for 4x damage, and again only with STAB moves.)

3. There you go again with the whole "OU=good. Everything else=shit" attitude. Okay, let's assume for a second that you're right and a Fire/Ground Emboar isn't useful in OU. It can still work very well in UU or RU or even be a top NU. Just because something isn't OU doesn't mean it's bad. Besides, it can't be any worse off than it is now, as a mostly forgotten mid-tier NU nobody uses seriously. If anything, it outclasses Camerupt (who is a would-be anti metagame Pokemon in NU right now.)

And, yet again, like the broken record I am, I am stressing that (and please, really listen this time) GAME FREAK DOESN'T HAVE TO CARE ABOUT SMOGON OR COMPETITIVE BATTLING TO MAKE IT'S FREAKING POKEMON.
 
yeah, its typing and stat distribution makes it a poor Infernape. Fire Ground would be interesting. Not Ou but it would be a refreshing change from fire/fighting.

And @Ghetsis-Dennis
Gf doesn't look at smogon tiers while creating mons. Why are you even dragging in smogon when it has nothing to do with whether Emboar should be another typing or not?
 
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