Should Energy Ball Expand to All Fire Types?

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

I'm jumping on the bandwagon, only this time it regards Energy Ball as said on the title. Nobody uses Solarbeam for their fire types, especially on Sunny Day teams due to how constant the weather changes in the metagame. The only fire types who utilize Energy Ball are Ninetales, Victini, and Chandelure. While Infernape, Simisear, and Emboar have Grass Knot, the rest of the special-based fire types lack any decent moves to cover their common weaknesses. By giving them Energy Ball, it'll help boost their tier ranking from being RU and NU (except Macargo, and Torkoal to a certain extent). So what would it be: Give them a move that's supposedly the holy grail to every fire type in existence, or have them suffer by being never used because of the presence of their common weaknesses?

 

[Rainami]

Naw, I don't want Water-types to be hurt.

....Magcargo is awesome, it needs some kinda boost. I guess Shell Smash + Weak Armor has potential, through.

 

[Envoy]

Yes, that's just what we need, more Grass type moves being hoarded by Fire type Pokemon, because the Grass type doesn't have enough problems already. If Fire types get Solarbeam, Grass Knot and Energy Ball, then I demand Grass types get Fire Blast, Overheat and Flamethrower and no, I don't care about any damn logic that might or might not go into that decision.

 

[Infinity Mk-II]

Let's make every move super-effective to grass, all grass types only able to use a grass-type tackle, and give every grass move to everything else!

No. If all fire types had Energy Ball, all grass types should have Water Pulse or Flamethrower.

It's this sort of overshadowing that causes Ice to be trash already. Almost all water types should NOT have Ice Beam.

 

[Bandit Keith]

Yes, but only to metagame commoners.

Could get ugly otherwise...

 

[Lord Clowncrete]

Lol, Energy ball is by no means the Holy Grail or something. This is the dumbest statement I have heard so far. Many mons who have energy ball still suck balls(lolpun) in battling. Ninetales is OU because of drought and only drought while the remaining 2 mons: Chandelure and Victini are UU. In the Sun, most unresisted fire type moves do more damage than a super-effective energy ball. so my answer is no, it is not needed.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

....Magcargo is awesome, it needs some kinda boost. I guess Shell Smash + Weak Armor has potential, through.

If you look at his base stats, then you'll see that he is not awesome, and Shell Smash will bring nothing good for him.

Lol, Energy ball is by no means the Holy Grail or something. This is the dumbest statement I have heard so far. Many mons who have energy ball still suck balls(lolpun) in battling. Ninetales is OU because of drought and only drought while the remaining 2 mons: Chandelure and Victini are UU. In the Sun, most unresisted fire type moves do more damage than a super-effective energy ball. so my answer is no, it is not needed.

I thought you said the game is already "balanced" with these pokemon regardless of tiers?

 

[Almonds]

No way. It's going to be unfair. Being able to teach them Solarbeam is one thing, but Energy Ball?

And ya know, if I had a Fire-Type and was facing a Water-Type, I'd just switch my pokemon.

 

[Envoy]

If you're really that hung up on teaching a Grass move to your Fire type, HP [Grass] works just as well and it's only ten points weaker. Energy Ball is not required in any way. Fire types in general have pretty decent coverage, so they don't have to worry too much about what Hidden Power they want.

Now where's my Overheat Venusaur and Ice Beam Meganium?

 

[Rainami]

....Magcargo is awesome, it needs some kinda boost. I guess Shell Smash + Weak Armor has potential, through.

If you look at his base stats, then you'll see that he is not awesome, and Shell Smash will bring nothing good for him.

Magcargo is actually very fast with +3 speed. And in the sun it can hit hard with Fire Blast.

 

[Lord Clowncrete]

....Magcargo is awesome, it needs some kinda boost. I guess Shell Smash + Weak Armor has potential, through.

If you look at his base stats, then you'll see that he is not awesome, and Shell Smash will bring nothing good for him.

Lol, Energy ball is by no means the Holy Grail or something. This is the dumbest statement I have heard so far. Many mons who have energy ball still suck balls(lolpun) in battling. Ninetales is OU because of drought and only drought while the remaining 2 mons: Chandelure and Victini are UU. In the Sun, most unresisted fire type moves do more damage than a super-effective energy ball. so my answer is no, it is not needed.

I thought you said the game is already "balanced" with these pokemon regardless of tiers?

And? that has nothing to do with the topic. Pokemon is balanced whether you like it or not. You can argue how Pokemon is unbalanced by pointing towards smogon tiers, but the tiers are based on usage. I can't stress how often I have debated the same point with you so I am not wasting my time here.

As for the topic, Envoy has pointed out that hidden power solves the problem with just a little bit less power. And yet even with hp grass accessible, most fire types donot use hp grass, so on what basis you are saying that energy ball is the holy grail when hp grass itself isn't used? Do you think Darmanitan will use Energy Ball? Or Arcanine for that matter?

 

[Rainami]

For the record, I'm not saying that Magcargo is gonna be like the next Heatran, I'm just saying it can preform decently.

 

[Synthesis]

Interesting question; but I have to agree with the common perception, and say no. As someone pointed out earlier, HP Grass is almost as good for several reasons. Also, arguing that Grass types need fire/water moves or that it won't make these Pokemon better (to varying degrees of course) is very stupid when the OP had a very validated point.

 

[Lord Clowncrete]

For the record, I'm not saying that Magcargo is gonna be like the next Heatran, I'm just saying it can preform decently.

well, with paralysis support and sun, it can work in the lower tiers. Though its obviously not Heatran, so you put that well.

 

[Articwolf10]

Shell-Smash Macargo might get used more in NU but it's such a shitty pokemon I doubt it ever be above NU even Butterfree is more useful it's just plain useless they wasted Shell-smash

 

[Oswin]

I don't think so. The flavour text says the user draws power from nature, and I can't imagine most fire types using it.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

If you're really that hung up on teaching a Grass move to your Fire type, HP [Grass] works just as well and it's only ten points weaker. Energy Ball is not required in any way. Fire types in general have pretty decent coverage, so they don't have to worry too much about what Hidden Power they want.

That's the problem, nobody wants to use HP Grass as it requires countless IV breedings, and no, fire types do not have decent coverage against ground types, which are another common type in the metagame.

Do you think Darmanitan will use Energy Ball? Or Arcanine for that matter?

I've mentioned special-based fire types in my open post, so physical-based fire types may not have to worry about it.

 

[Envoy]

That's the problem, nobody wants to use HP Grass as it requires countless IV breedings, and no, fire types do not have decent coverage against ground types, which are another common type in the metagame.

Oh, back to this again. Really? We're going back to the whole 'I just don't want to work for it' thing? Honestly? I don't care if you don't like to IV breed. Smogon doesn't care whether or not you like to IV breed, and Game Freak sure as hell don't give a flying rat's ass if you like to IV breed.

They give you the tools. If you don't want to use them, that's your problem and yours alone. What? You want to be spoon-fed everything in this game? Everything should be as easy as pressing the A button a few times and getting just what you need? If the whole 'hard work and earning what you have' mentality pisses you off so much, get Action Replay, use an emulator or simply find another game to play.

Personally, I don't see the point in ruining a whole type (Grass) and giving a completely irrelevant move to another (Fire) just so you can be lazy.

And by the way, neutral coverage =/= no coverage. Fire is now supposed to hit all 17 types super effectively somehow? Fire already hits Ground neutrally, so I dunno what you're talking about there. :/

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

And by the way, neutral coverage =/= no coverage. Fire is now supposed to hit all 17 types super effectively somehow? Fire already hits Ground neutrally, so I dunno what you're talking about there. :/

Type coverage is everything regardless if they take neutral hits. SE moves, especially moves that cover the Pokemon's only weaknesses, are more preferable to quicken the process.

 

[PDL]

I'd rather have most fire types be able to learn electric moves and vice versa.