Sinnoh starters should have been availble in HeartGold & SoulSilver

[Adampokefreak]

Turtwig, Chimchar & Piplup should have been avialble in HeartGold & SoulSilver they could have been given to the hero by Dawn/Lucas or Professor Rowan

who else agrees.

 

[Falconwing]

Nope. That's why we have the other Gen IV games.

 

[/Zer0]

^Basically

In HGSS+PokeWalker you can obtain almost every Pokemon in the Pokedex. If they added the starters, what would be the point of buying the other two Gen IV games?

~ This ties in with the other thread about the special areas to evolve Pokemon, its like a version exclusive thing

 

[PlatinumDude]

I don't agree with the OP. That's what we have D/P/Pt. for trading Pokemon for.

 

[tacotaskforce]

Working out a trade for the starters in a trading forum is pretty trivial. Pokemon is supposed to be a social game, remember?

 

[Orion-Sama]

^Basically

In HGSS+PokeWalker you can obtain almost every Pokemon in the Pokedex. If they added the starters, what would be the point of buying the other two Gen IV games?

This point doesn't really sticks. Even considering only the current player base (The kids that are supposedly cycled out each generation), only the players that got HGSS as their first 4th Generation game would allow the company to generate revenue for this decision. Plus, the game encourages meeting other players with other games and trade with them, so it's never a requirement in any Generation of Pokémon since it came out to buy every game. Only people that want to have every game, that don't feel like looking for other people to trade with (Not needed with the advent of Wi-Fi. At least not in person. And even then, the GTS exists, despite its flaws, though I'll agree the need of seeing a Pokémon so you can ask for it is inconvenient), or that don't have other people to trade with would end up buying every game.

Not that I agree with having the Sinnoh Starters in HGSS, but nothing's stopping them. The name of the game isn't "buy every game to get every creature", it's "trade with other games to get every creature". Whether it's possible or not for the player to do so is beside the point.

~ This ties in with the other thread about the special areas to evolve Pokemon, its like a version exclusive thing

No. This is entirely different, and speaks of the availability and efficiency of the game to provide you with as much content as possible. Pokémon that don't exist in a given version are absolute. The entire evolutionary line is impossible to get anywhere. All you can do is see it used by in-game Trainers, or mentioned in the case of Legendaries.

In actuality, what the lack of evolution methods does is detract from the game's value as a main Version. If I wanted to get every Pokémon in an easier way, I would get Platinum (Or Diamond/Pearl if I ignored the fact they're horrible) instead of HeartGold/SoulSilver. Not only I have access to every evolution method, but it allows me to evolve those Pokémon at my leisure if I want to raise another one in the future. Any other Pokémon I can't get at all in Platinum? I'd do what I'd have to do with any other game: look for people to trade with.

In HGSS? You have to trade to someone with DPPt, have it evolved there, and get it sent back. The only trade you should have to do to get an evolution should precisely be for Trade Evolutions, not for evolutions of Pokémon you can already get in-game, but can't evolve because they didn't bother to add a method. Whenever you want to train one, instead of just trading, let alone going to the evolve location, you have to wait for it to get evolved, and then get it back. Needless constraints.

You'd think they knew better after messing up with FRLG. At least in those remakes they were consistent and completely removed the elements that made the impossible Evolutions be impossible. There was no clock, and there was no way to raise Beauty. HGSS had the Deoxys meteorites, and even made Daisy's massages raise Beauty, making Milotic possible without Poffin feeding. Why the hell not add special locations for these evolutions?

 

[tacotaskforce]

The only trade you should have to do to get an evolution should precisely be for Trade Evolutions, not for evolutions of Pokémon you can already get in-game, but can't evolve because they didn't bother to add a method.

So it's OK if you have to trade for an evolution, but it's not OK if you have to trade for an evolution.

 

[Orion-Sama]

So it's OK if you have to trade for an evolution, but it's not OK if you have to trade for an evolution.

Yes, because you have to do it, whereas in terms of location evolutions, you have to trade, evolve it in the other game, and trade back.

With Trade Evolutions, you trade them away, they evolve, you trade back, and it's a done deal.

In Diamond, Pearl and Platinum, I don't have to do so much crap to get, say, a Glaceon. Why should I have to go through such hassle in HGSS? It might not matter for casual players, but for the more serious ones, or hell, for anyone that likes the Pokémon and wants to train one, it just adds needless constraints to what was supposed to be a relatively simple method.

 

[tacotaskforce]

You also don't have to go through a lot of hassle if you want a Glameow in Pearl, or a Stunky in Platinum.

It was a simple method in DPP, but that doesn't mean it has to remain simple in HGSS. Each version of the game has its own little quirks. Considering the vast number of third gen pokemon that are trivial to pick up in HGSS and are royal pains in the ass to pick up in DPP I don't see the problem with two eeveelutions that are a little more involved than the others.

 

[Orion-Sama]

It was a simple method in DPP, but that doesn't mean it has to remain simple in HGSS. Each version of the game has its own little quirks. Considering the vast number of third gen pokemon that are trivial to pick up in HGSS and are royal pains in the ass to pick up in DPP I don't see the problem with two eeveelutions that are a little more involved than the others.

There's quirks, and there's quirks. There's no reason to prevent you from getting those location evolutions in HGSS, outside of their own development laziness. Then again, seeing how they used the exact same Battle Frontier as Platinum's, I shouldn't be the least bit surprised that a more meaningful feature was left out.

One would think they had learned since FRLG. With the precedent set by RS, FRLG could very easily have solved its own evolution issues. Placing a clock that did even less than in RS both to allow you to get Espeon and Umbreon and have a better control of the respawning Berries would've been ideal. They could've done the Daisy grooming thing raise Beauty invisibly in FRLG, too, so you could get Milotic. Ultimately, they didn't do any of this for one reason or another, but at least it was clear the whole elements were left out and impossible to replicate in any way. Funnily enough, you can get the Champion Ribbon in FRLG (Trade any of your Pokémon in FRLG's Hall of Fame to RSE), but you can't in HGSS. lol

Then comes HGSS, which tacked on the Deoxys meteorites and a hidden way to raise Beauty so you can get Milotic, and yet can't do the same with the locations? Pathetic.

 

[tacotaskforce]

How does lazyness even begin to factor into this? If that was true then they would have made Glameow and Stunky show up in HGSS too, and made it possible to find Skull and Shield fossils.

Previously to complete the pokedex you'd need a copy of either Diamond or Pearl, the ability to trade with the other copy, and a whole shitload of GBA games. Now you just need DP, Platinum, and HGSS. They changed the trading requirements, but they never got rid of them, and they never will. They are an integral part of how the series is designed. GSC needed to trade with RGBY, FRLG needed to trade with RSE, and BW will need to trade with at least 2 Gen 4 games. This is nothing new, and it is not unintentional.

 

[RudolphMilotic]

How does lazyness even begin to factor into this? If that was true then they would have made Glameow and Stunky show up in HGSS too, and made it possible to find Skull and Shield fossils.

Laziness is appreciated in HGSS the moment you realize the Battle Frontier is the exact same to that of Platinum's: they didn't even bother to change Palmer or the 5 Stat trainers with who you link up in Multi-Battle matches, despite they being tied to the Sinnoh story of DPt. In defense of Game Freak I have to say that at least they changed the dialogue of Palmer when you encounter him and that they didn't make available Charon's diary in the Rotom's Room of Silph Co., but the idleness is still present in many other elements. Did they include a white rock in Kanto as a nod or cosmetic reference to the Shaymin event? Of course not.

And maybe Probopass and Magnezone were justified in the sense that the Mt. Coronet is specifically said to have a special magnetic field by the plot and some text in DPt, but the Moss or the Icy Rock weren't never attached or considered endemic to the Sinnoh region by in-game text or other sources, so it doesn't make any sense that they can't be found in Johto or Kanto unless you take into account the 'keep the essence of GSC the same' premise which is just as flawed/false/contradictory as many other things in HGSS (Safari Zone, two new routes, Johto and Kanto lacking loamy soil in spite of the former appearing in a game that has a perfectly functional and overused clock, etc.).

 

[tacotaskforce]

but the Moss or the Icy Rock weren't never attached or considered endemic to the Sinnoh region by in-game text or other sources, so it doesn't make any sense that they can't be found in Johto or Kanto

Glaceon and Leafeon are both absent from the Johto pokedex because no one's found a way to get those pokemon in Johto or Kanto. There's your in game explanation.

I've yet to see a single person say why it should be possible for a glaceon or leafeon to be evolved in HGSS aside from convenience.

 

[RudolphMilotic]

Glaceon and Leafeon are both absent from the Johto pokedex because no one's found a way to get those pokemon in Johto or Kanto. There's your in game explanation.

I've yet to see a single person say why it should be possible for a glaceon or leafeon to be evolved in HGSS aside from convenience.

An explanation that isn't on the script or mentioned in-game, so there it goes your argument. And the convenience is already good enough for Pokémon like Rotom or Shaymin (since Platinum for the latter of course, because no much is known about the origins of the Gracidea or why Shaymin transforms into its Sky Forme by touching/sniffing it) that a solid fan theory or a hypothetical reasoning isn't necessary. Besides that, just because you think of the views of others as mere whining or dull, it doesn't mean they actually encompass that definition or that are less valid.

 

[tacotaskforce]

You do realise you can't actually catch Rotom and Shaymin in HGSS, right? They have to be transferred from an event or another game. And HGSS has to have the ability to change Rotom's form or else you couldn't use him in multiplayer. That's why the national championship requires HGSS carts for all players. Otherwise someone could bring a Pearl cart and shut down their opponent's magic fridge.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

No yeah let's make the starters of that generation, which are obtainable within the first five minutes of either of the three games, be available in the remakes of an erlier generation which had nothing to do with sinohh. Outside of trading the starters of kanto, johto and hoenn are hard to get...unlike the sinoh ones which are available to you in that generation on three different games.

Stop being such greedy kids.

 

[Poltergeist]

Eh, no. Everyone else has explained why so I'm not going to repeat other's words.

 

[Soulweaver]

Stop being lazy and trade them over from Sinnoh. There's no real reason they should have been in HGSS.

 

[No78]

I don't really see why we needed the 1st or 3rd Gen starters either.

 

[Smugleaf]

You can easily get them by trading ffs