My favorite new feature from X/Y is the fact that you can now reset a Pokemon's EVs through Reset bags without having to worry about rebreeding another pokemon in case you accidentally goof up (bloody Trapinches...). This got me thinking though, if we've reached the point of ingame EV adjustments, might the next generation have something that lets you CHANGE IVs? I mean, yeah, it'll kill the breeding aspect of the game but that's not something a lot of people enjoyed in all honesty.
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So, Can we Expect SUPER ULTRA Training?
- Thread starter Stofen
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We've been able to take away EVs since Emerald version
Orion-Sama
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In Gen 6 it's easier than ever to manipulate IVs. Friend Safari Pokémon have 2 guaranteed perfect IVs. Legendary Pokémon and wild Baby Pokémon have 3 perfect IVs guaranteed. During breeding, if any of the parents are holding Destiny Knot, their babies will inherit 5 IVs from either parent (Meaning only one stat is random). Having a perfect IV Ditto makes IV breeding the easiest it's ever been.
Proxima Centauri B
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No I dont think we'll ever get the option to change IVs. They're supposed to be like genetics in a way so I dont think its something that will ever be able to be changed after a Pokemon hatches or is caught. Luckily they've streamlined the breeding process more so it's easier to get Pokemon with higher IVs.
As Shiny Celebi said, IVs aren't really supposed to change. Also, think about it, if we could change IVs, what would be the difference between IVs and EVs? What would even be the point in having IVs? (Other than breeding for high IVs, which wouldn't matter anymore since they could be changed later on...)
I feel the whole point of Gen 6 was to make the competitive aspect available to a much wider audience than has been. If you think about it maybe 100k at best participate in the VGCs. That's less than 1% of the games sold in any generation.
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And then Mega Mega Mega Super Training?
Stratelier
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Where does it end? I think Phoenixeon said it the best: If you're allowed to change IVs, then what is the difference between IVs and EVs anymore?
You mean the simulators? Which are really just useful for testing out teams before you build them ingame and realize they suck?
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Still doesn't solve the tedium of Pokemon breeding in all honesty. I mean that's why hacking is such a big part of Pokemon. Why spend days trying to get a Timid HP Fire Gardevoir when you can simply take 5 minutes to get yourself a shiny Gardevoir with 31/30/31/30/30/31 that is just as legit(minus the shininess) as the regularly bred one.
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A few people have asked how IVs would be different from EVs if they could be changed. The answer is that they aren't capped: EVs have a max of 510 points, while IVs can theoretically all be perfect.
As to weather that means IVs should be changable...I think, if it was possible, it should be a somewhat more difficult process than super training. Maybe something you spend BP on.
As to weather that means IVs should be changable...I think, if it was possible, it should be a somewhat more difficult process than super training. Maybe something you spend BP on.
Good question. The answer generally comes down to morals and equality. Not everyone has access to cheating devices that would allow them to do such, and so, the cheater has an unfair advantage. Also, imo, it just feels wrong to create your own Pokemon, like you're trying to play god in a way.
By generalizing your question to other aspects of the Pokemon games, we can truly see why it's fallacious. How about: "Why spend days to level up your Pokemon when you can take five minutes to multiply experience gained and get yourself a level 100 Pokemon?" Or: "Why spend days trying to complete the Pokedex when you can take five minutes to use Pokecheck and catch em all?"
I could give more examples, but you probably get what I mean. In a way, it's really the time you spent to achieve your goals that make your goals worth something. It's kind of what gives you a sense of accomplishment. Think about it, if you were to spend days getting that special Gardevoir, wouldn't that make you feel more satisfied than if you just cheated for it? As @Gomez16 said, being able to just choose the stats at will "is not nearly rewarding".
So, the answer to your question, I think, is that people want to be more fair when battling others, they feel that it's morally wrong to cheat in Pokemon, and/or they want a sense of achievement, and that is why they spend days to accomplish what they want.
Back to the main topic, the point (I think) you were stating is that a lot of people hack in Pokemon to get max IVs because of it's difficulty to do so legitimately in breeding. And that is why you think GF should introduce a way to change IVs?
Other than the fact that if they did this, there'd be no difference in EVs and IVs, it still would not greatly reduce the number of hackers. I mean, imo, IV breeding has gotten really easy now, but hackers still hack for IVs. If they did introduce an IV training system, hackers would still hack for IVs. Because hackers gonna hack. Time and effort would still be required for this training, albeit maybe less than IV breeding, and hackers will still want a "short cut", and will continue hacking for max IV Pokemon.
And besides, hackers exist for other reasons too. (Not gonna elaborate...)
So? The stat for one IV can still only go up to 31. So, they're cap is technically (31*6=) 186. Look at the way it's used in the stat formula. If IVs were changeable, then each IV would just be worth 4 EVs (since EVs are divided by four...) And if you change an IV, it would be the equivalent of changing the EV four times as much. (E.g. +1 IV = +4 EV). By making it so that only one of them can change, there's actually a reason to keep them as separate numbers in the formula. (Because one of them is variable and one is constant.)
I don't really understand what you're trying to get at. What does the cap for the total number of EVs have to do with this anyway?
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The cap on the EV total means that improving one stat through EV training means not improving another. For a common spread, maxing out attack and speed than putting the remaining points in HP means not increasing defense, or special attack.
Since IVs don't have a total maximum that way, increasing Defense IVs doesn't stop you from also increasing speed, and special defense, and so on.
Stratelier
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To me, the reason that IVs are not subject to a cap like EVs are is because it's a fixed attribute of the individual Pokemon.
Get yourself a 6 IV Ditto and stop complaining. IV breeding is not as hard as it seems. With my 6 IV Ditto I could probably have a full team of 6 bred in about 2-3 hours. Don't worry about HP Fire on Gardevoir. If Steel's are bothering you use Focus Blast, which it gets. And if your problem is using a Gardevoir against an Aegislash you're doing it wrong.
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- #17
My issue is that even with these improvements it still takes TOO LONG. I do not have the time to dedicate weeks just to making a single competitive team. And I'll admit I'm not doing this to get into any actual competitions, I just want my favorite pokes to be the most awesome they can be but as it stands it tends to a huge PAIN to actually get them there.
Then again, I probably wouldn't be complaining if GF had simply given Gardevoir a breedable fire attack so that I didn't have to mess with Hidden Power...
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This week i bred over 10 perfect IV pokemon and it wasnt a perfect IV pokemon of a single one, i got several perfect IV of each mon i bred, i played around at max two hours a day and i don't even have a 6 IV Ditto, if i had one it would have been even faster, you are just lazy.
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@Norzan; I think it's possible that Stofen just doesn't know how to easily breed perfect IV Pokemon, so I think I'll tell him how....
First of all, it doesn't take weeks if you know how its done. In some cases, you could breed 6 perfect IV Pokemon in a day.
What you have to know is, in X and Y, Baby Pokemon found in the wild have at least THREE max IVs, which is already a big deal.
(The following is my own theoretical (I haven't actually done it myself) method for getting a max IV Pokemon without already having Pokemon with any max IVs. There may be an easier method that I'm not aware of...)
Now, in this example, I'm trying to breed for a max IV Gardevoir. (Depending on the egg groups, it may be more difficult to breed for some of these Pokemon than others. It may also involve chain breeding with another Pokemon to get into the right egg group.) I'm assuming that, at the moment, you have no Pokemon with even 2 full IVs, which is unlikely, but this method would still work.
Gardevoir is in the Amorphous egg group. One of the baby Pokemon that evolve into a Pokemon of this egg group is Chingling. They can be found in X/Y at Route 11 or Glittering Cave, albeit they're rare. The goal is to find two such Chingling, one male and one female, so that in total they have 6 max IVs. For example, the male could have max Attack, Special Attack and Speed, while the female could have max Defense, Special Defense, and HP. Once you've found two such Chingling, evolve them both, and give one a Destiny Knot, and give the other any of the EV enhancing items (ex. Power Bracer, Power Belt, etc.) that will allow the IV to be passed down for one of their max stats. This will give the resulting offspring to have about 1/6 (actually, it's a little less than that) (I can explain that Math to you, if you want) chance of having 6 MAX IVS. But you need one that is male. So, it's about 1/12. So far, this will probably take a few hours, but once you've got just ONE Pokemon with max IVs, it's worth it.
So, after this, now you have a max IV male Chimecho. All you do is get a female Ralts (or its evos) with one max/high IV. (This is not necessary, but otherwise, you'd have to breed about 31 Ralts.) Once you have that Ralts or whatever, you give it the EV enhancing item that corresponds to its highest IV, that preferably would be 31, but I don't see the big deal in having it as just 30 or even 29. And then you give the max IV Chimecho a Destiny Knot, and breed it with the Ralts holding whatever, and there is about a 1/6 (actually, it's a bit more than that) chance of getting a perfect IV (or in the case of the Ralts with 30 or 29 as its highest stat, a close to perfect IV) Ralts.
And this might take a whole day to do. But, it's important to note that once you have just ONE perfect IV Pokemon, it's a lot easier to breed it on to other Pokemon, which could also be part of different egg groups. And then, once you have Pokemon of several egg groups with perfect IVs, you can breed it to ALL the egg groups. And THEN, once you have at least one (male) Pokemon from each egg group with perfect IVs, you can potentially breed it to ANY BREEDABLE POKEMON.
So, potentially, with just ONE max IV Pokemon, you can get ALL (non-legendary/ditto) Pokemon with max IVs. And, as TerraTF said, if you have a max IV Ditto (which cannot be bred for, so it is harder to get), EVERYTHING is a lot more easier. But just to find that Ditto (without cheating) could take days and weeks. So there are many ways it can be done.
What I'm trying to say is, IV breeding, as of Gen VI, has become really easy and something that doesn't necessarily have to take weeks, but can be done in hours.
(I can explain the math of the probability involved in the stuff I talked about, but it's pretty complex.)
First of all, it doesn't take weeks if you know how its done. In some cases, you could breed 6 perfect IV Pokemon in a day.
What you have to know is, in X and Y, Baby Pokemon found in the wild have at least THREE max IVs, which is already a big deal.
(The following is my own theoretical (I haven't actually done it myself) method for getting a max IV Pokemon without already having Pokemon with any max IVs. There may be an easier method that I'm not aware of...)
Now, in this example, I'm trying to breed for a max IV Gardevoir. (Depending on the egg groups, it may be more difficult to breed for some of these Pokemon than others. It may also involve chain breeding with another Pokemon to get into the right egg group.) I'm assuming that, at the moment, you have no Pokemon with even 2 full IVs, which is unlikely, but this method would still work.
Gardevoir is in the Amorphous egg group. One of the baby Pokemon that evolve into a Pokemon of this egg group is Chingling. They can be found in X/Y at Route 11 or Glittering Cave, albeit they're rare. The goal is to find two such Chingling, one male and one female, so that in total they have 6 max IVs. For example, the male could have max Attack, Special Attack and Speed, while the female could have max Defense, Special Defense, and HP. Once you've found two such Chingling, evolve them both, and give one a Destiny Knot, and give the other any of the EV enhancing items (ex. Power Bracer, Power Belt, etc.) that will allow the IV to be passed down for one of their max stats. This will give the resulting offspring to have about 1/6 (actually, it's a little less than that) (I can explain that Math to you, if you want) chance of having 6 MAX IVS. But you need one that is male. So, it's about 1/12. So far, this will probably take a few hours, but once you've got just ONE Pokemon with max IVs, it's worth it.
So, after this, now you have a max IV male Chimecho. All you do is get a female Ralts (or its evos) with one max/high IV. (This is not necessary, but otherwise, you'd have to breed about 31 Ralts.) Once you have that Ralts or whatever, you give it the EV enhancing item that corresponds to its highest IV, that preferably would be 31, but I don't see the big deal in having it as just 30 or even 29. And then you give the max IV Chimecho a Destiny Knot, and breed it with the Ralts holding whatever, and there is about a 1/6 (actually, it's a bit more than that) chance of getting a perfect IV (or in the case of the Ralts with 30 or 29 as its highest stat, a close to perfect IV) Ralts.
And this might take a whole day to do. But, it's important to note that once you have just ONE perfect IV Pokemon, it's a lot easier to breed it on to other Pokemon, which could also be part of different egg groups. And then, once you have Pokemon of several egg groups with perfect IVs, you can breed it to ALL the egg groups. And THEN, once you have at least one (male) Pokemon from each egg group with perfect IVs, you can potentially breed it to ANY BREEDABLE POKEMON.
So, potentially, with just ONE max IV Pokemon, you can get ALL (non-legendary/ditto) Pokemon with max IVs. And, as TerraTF said, if you have a max IV Ditto (which cannot be bred for, so it is harder to get), EVERYTHING is a lot more easier. But just to find that Ditto (without cheating) could take days and weeks. So there are many ways it can be done.
What I'm trying to say is, IV breeding, as of Gen VI, has become really easy and something that doesn't necessarily have to take weeks, but can be done in hours.
(I can explain the math of the probability involved in the stuff I talked about, but it's pretty complex.)
- Thread starter
- #20
I definitely didn't know that wild babies had 3 max IVs.
Hey if you've got a 6 IV Ditto laying around that you don't need then I'm more than willing to shut up. Anyways, Focus Blast is pretty unreliable for a squishy like Gardevoir and I wanted fire so that I could deal with all the pesky Abomasnows, Ferrothorns, and bugs that hang out in the Battle Maison.