So it's been a year since "The Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon" debuted...

[Dogasu]

Today, April 29th, marks one year since "The Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon" debuted on Kids' WB!.

I know a thread about the new VA's is redundantly redundant at this point, but I do think the one year anniversary of the start of "the new dub" deserves some discussion. Have we advanced by leaps and bounds since that first special, or have the voices more or less been the same? What about the idea this special brought about the new dub keeping the Japanese soundtrack intact? And, most importantly, what do you guys feel about the special itself? Was it a good special or just a rehash of a bunch of ideas that were executed better in the past?

I really shouldn't have to say this, but please, please, PLEASE keep all conversation civil.

 

[Habunake]

Mastermind = Creative Plot executed pretty badly ; got alot of negative feedback mainly because of the new VA's (like the Mystery Dungeon did...despite the fact that special being awesome and unique...)

But, I mean, after the Yugioh Movie what do you expect from a made for American Audience movie?

Voices: I pretty much like all of them now, and I don't want them to change now after I've got use to them...so, tbh, I kinda hope SOVA fails...I don't mean to sound selfish, but hey...it's my show too.

Music: The DP pilot kept quite a bit of BGM, so I was happy (compared to the Advanced Pilot...um, 2 pieces?)...I wish they could keep the whole soundtrack (non-lyrical), but oh well....

 

[Doctor Oak]

I was watching the 9th movie dub last week, and have been pleasantly surprised. Everyone's voices were on their A-Game, the writing was excellent and the music track appears to have been kept 99% intact (though why did they replace the Spurt track when it wasn't in Japanese?). The movie itself is pretty much a massive meh, but it was a good dub of it and easily on the level of any of 4Kids' top level stuff.

Though, watching the D/P preview a few days after left me wishing that whoever was in charge of the music for the movie was in charge of it for the show - 'cos those 3 episodes would have been so much better if they'd just kept the BGMs.

Overall, the dub is fine. It's no worse, though not exactly miles better, than 4Kids and Ash's voice, at least, is improving with practically every episode. The only one I could possibly say ever had a problem. (Not counting the original Mastermind dub).

 

[Jukain]

I'll say it was ok. Some parts seemed to mirror older plots, but it was good idea anyway. Sadly, yes, this will be forever mired by the infamous VA debate. Regardless, what has resulted from this has met with my satisfaction. I look forward to the Diamond and Pearl season. Mastermind may never become a "must see" for the fandom, but it will be remembered for its infamy, and as the start of a new era for the dub.

 

[Cybersai]

My only major gripe now is the music. If PUSA just kept the Japanese music (especially Dawn's theme...dammit!) I would be 100% behind them.

The voice actors have made major strides since the original Mastermind dub and there is no denying it.

The best new voices are pretty much the females. Michelle Knotz has done an excellent job with May, Jessie, Misty, Nurse Joy, and Delia. Phew, for a woman who does practically every major female on the show (besides Dawn), she's done a fantastic job and is without a doubt the best new voice actor on the show.

Zoppi's Meowth has improved drastically since the first eps of Season 9. I also thought Drew and Harley were handled very well, and PUSA arguably made Harley even more campy than the original had him.

I really like Dawn and Paul's voices as well. Dawn's voice does sound like Lisa Ortiz at times, (and as a result she also sounds a bit like Casey), but overall its a nice cute sounding voice that fits her. Paul's voice is badass = A+

I also can't end this without giving major props to NewBrock. He got Brock completely nailed, he did a great job as the new Drew, and he did great as Tucker and Scott in Battle Frontier as well. Well done, well done.

Finally we're left with Ash, who I believe has improved over the course of the last year. One thing I like about Ash's new voice is it does indeed make him sound older, so perhaps the switch happened at the right time?

 

[Kazamatsuri]

Well a lot can be said on issues relating to this topic. Usually with hot button topics like these, I either forcefully argue a strong opinion or get deeply analytical. I'll try to avoid that here since others will probably say what's on my mind.

I'll just say that a lot has happened since PUSA/Taj took over the Dub. I myself was hopeful when they started producing episodes, and I've had both my share of pleasant surprises and disappointments. While being the best Dub 4Kids has ever handled, it still left a lot to be desired, and while PUSA/Taj has addressed some of these concerns (paint edits), it really hasn't been much of an improvement if at all.

If any other Anime Dub had been produced at the same level of quality as Pokemon has under either PUSA or 4Kids as of late, I would not be watching it. The changes I've witnessed from 4Kids to PUSA are certainly not enough to make me stop watching the Dub. However, if I weren't watching the last few seasons under 4Kids, the so-called improvements that PUSA has made would not be nearly enough to convince me to start watching again.

 

[FabuVinny]

I watch dubs on their own terms, not by how different they are to the Japanese version. I enjoyed Pokémon under 4Kids and PUSA have mainly kept up the quality. A lot of people behind the scenes are the same, such as the scriptwriter, so that's probably to be expected.

While my personal opinion is that the 4Kids voices were better, the shock that Mastermind gave has disappeared and the VAs we have are now fine. The quality of acting for Ash went a long time with ups and downs but he seems to be consistently decent now. Brock's lovestruck voice was my biggest complaint after that (right from that scene in Mastermind) but it also appears to have improved with DP.

The trouble with the special is that you can't consider it without the voices. It was the first project the VAs did for Pokémon so naturally it was before they got into their groove. (Which the pro-PUSA brigade insisted we weren't allowed to complain about having to wait for.) That took away from the other factors. The story was alright but I haven't rewatched it since this time last year so I can't really comment much.

 

[Misty]

Mastermind shouldn't really be taken into account voicewise, IMO. Simply put, the worst ep of Battle Frontier (probably Wheel of Frontier) isn't even on the same scale as the original Mastermind.

The special itself was moderately enjoyable but it's really hard to watch with the voice quality. It had some high points but for the most part it wasn't anything special - like a good episode extended to an hour.


As far as the voices, everyone except Ash sounds just fine to me. There was some time getting used to them, but mostly everyone started out pretty mediocre and now they're all solid competent.

Ash is a different story. Sarah's worst performance definitely stands out at Wheel of Frontier - I still remember that line where she said "Oh. Snorlax." with no emotion whatsoever and it totally ruined the scene. Ever since, I don't think I've ever heard anything that bad, and she peaked at Movie 9, with an excellent performance. The DP episodes were a little lacking, though, and at this point I'm not sure if I'll ever "like" how she sounds, but I generally can stand it now, which is better than even mid Battle Frontier.

 

[peno]

I loved Mastermind's story so much that I can even ignore the voices. But now after a year, let me say some things.
I have no problems with many voices. Some of them are even better then their 4Kids voices. James especially. But May, after my first disapointment turned to be much better then Varonica Taylor's girl-version-of-Ash.
I have problems with only three voices now. Harley, male Pokédex and Ash. Fortunately, Harley were just minor character which we most likely didn't seen anymore and Pokédex were changed to female voice who is now much more hearable for me. But Ash, on the other hand…
I were also disapointed about music changes which IMO are worser then what 4Kids were doing.

Finally we're left with Ash, who I believe has improved over the course of the last year. One thing I like about Ash's new voice is it does indeed make him sound older, so perhaps the switch happened at the right time?

And that's my main complaint about Ash. Geez, Ash is ten year old, so why PUSA try to make him older? I know it's not only voice but writings too. But it botter me so much. I wanna have my old good ten year old Ash, not this teenage imposter. I hate him and it lessened my enjoyment of the show.

 

[QuietDragon]

It was rather nice. Yung was cute too. Kasumi's 'ladies first!' cracked me up. Nice to see so many Pokemon~. This Mewtwo was kind of awesome.
This Mew was cuuuuute! The end surprised me. ^^

he opening needs to be killed with fire. x.x;

Mirage Master > Mister Mirage.

The music was great! Seeing Kasumi again is always fun~.

 

[Hyatt]

I haven't really wrote a post reguarding the new voice actors in a long time (aside from Shinji) but here goes
Ash: to be honest, I like Sara's Ash. It's cute, different and new. But nothing beat how he said "Fear factor phony" in said episode, I still have fangirl screams and I'm not even an Ash fan!

Misty: she was done very very well. I just miss that edge that Rachel gave to her but hey.

May: the only thing I have to pick on her is that she sounded too similar to Misty and that IMO Misty and May should have distinct voices. But I found May much less annoying during the small amount of dub battle frontier I watched.

Brock: well done

Meowth: kinda reminds me of the pre-Maddie days back in the first ten or so episodes in Kanto. I like it kinda

Jessie: something sounds false about her new voice, fakish but overall ok

James: he's ok. I dont really like Jimmy Zoppi too much.


Drew: ok, not great but not bad

Harley: ew, just ew. He sounds too manly and deep.

Cassidy: the worst one yet, even worse than Shinji. God they gave her a valley girl accent! PUSA should've tried to imitate Megan's Cassidy, the best Cassidy IMO.

I've commented enough on Shinji that I'm sick of it. Let's just say it was great for PUSA but doesn't come even close to the original.

Hikari: Awesome! I loved Lisa Ortiz to death (she made Chigusa pwn) and Hikari's no acception. I dont get why everyone hates Lisa.

Go Pokemon Go: was this song done by PUSA or 4kids? If it was done by PUSA, this is them at their finest. Even the "rap" part I adore.

Battle Frontier: I loved it the second I heard it and I still love it.

Diamond and Pearl: my second favorite dub opening. I loved the combination of rock and rap, and the music pwned. The song reminded me of elements from my youth in the 90s.

btw, rap =/= crap There are some good rap songs out there.
^And this is coming from a girl who used to hate rap with a passion.

edit: you know Scott, I should've said this long ago but... Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Cybersai]

-The D/P opening is horrible because they cut out so much of the original and the theme is abysmal. Its really surprising that people will defend an opening that's *almost* as bad as the Dragonball GT rap. *shudder*

The Japanese D/P opening is beautiful, a great nice beat and excellent animation. PUSA seems to have an affront to showing good scenes and animation, which is why we got the trainwreck which is the dub D/P opening. The fact that standards have to be lowered in order to enjoy that theme is shocking, to say the least.

-Lisa Ortiz is disliked because she uses the same scratchy girl voice for ALL the characters she performs. The fact that Dawn sounds somewhat similar to that is *not* something to be proud of, but thankfully Dawn's voice seemed to differ from that more as it went on.

And I'm rather surprised that anyone would have a problem with Harley's dub voice, considering it is high-pitched and similar to his Japanese voice. Or Jessie's voice for that matter, which is pretty damn close to the original. It's nothing more than nitpicking, since we've got tones almost identical to the original. And for the record, Veronica Taylor's May > Michelle Knotz's May, although the latter is great too. I'd also like to address the notion that May sounds too much like Misty, because after the first 5 or so BF eps, she sounds nothing like Misty.

- PUSA needs to keep more of the good music but hopefully they've learned from their mistakes and will continue to improve.

 

[Habunake]

Am I the only one who doesn't think Ash sounds that much older?

His voice has more enthusiasm, but he seems the same character to me...and honestly, I never cared for Taylor much...she wasn't horrible, but out of the main cast she was kinda...the dullest.

 

[Nando]

Oh well, looks like it's time for contrarian opinions to be blasted. Yet again.

Sarah Natochenny still cannot act. There is no consistency in her performance at all---take the two part Anabel arc and compare it to "Battling the Enemy Within" and "Slaking Kong." She frequently sounds forced and at times almost like a parody of an Ash-type character, with speech patterns that mirror the stereotypical "Believe in yourself and you can do anything!!!" character. There's little to no emotion either, and I cannot understand how people think she's improved in the battle scenes---all she does is scream a lot. Title card reads are still pretty abysmal too.

At least there are good actors in the forms of Bill Rogers and the now-departed-from-the-main-trio Michelle Knotz to counteract the void in the starring role. Bill's Brock was horrible in the first Mastermind, but he figured it out quickly. Still, though, at times he sounds a bit too rough ("Forretress, I choose you!" in the "New Plot - Odd Lot"/"Going for Choke" arc) but it's tolerable. Michelle Knotz should have been cast as Dawn over whoever they did choose. I think she'd be much better than the squeaky Dawn we got. Michelle nailed May and Jessie almost immediately and managed to keep them consistantly good throughout.

Jimmy Zoppi is horrible. I'm sorry, but I would much rather have Stuart's squeaky James over the deep-voiced rich brat Zoppi turned him into. I guess we've all forgotten that James *rejected* the life of a rich brat so long ago. His Meowth voice is terrible too. Meowth used to be loveable, a crook still but nevertheless loveable, but now he just sounds downright mean and soulless. Watch "Pikachu's Island Adventure" if you have the Temple of the Sea DVD and compare Meowth in that to any of the Meowth episodes of Pokémon Chronicles or something like "Pikachu and Pichu!!" from Movie 3. Also ask yourself this: would "Go West, Young Meowth" or Meowth's musings about Tyson's Meowth in the Hoenn League be the same with Zoppi Meowth?

The special itself was very good, unfortunately shackled down by the poor performances of the entire cast (in the first) and of Ash (in the second) It was, if nothing else, refreshing to have an episode produced from a different point of view than the norm. I wonder what the Japanese response to it was when they got "The Terrifying Mirage Pokémon" last October...

And finally, the quality of the dub itself has been spinning in place like a tire stuck in mud. PUSA and TAJ have done very little besides leaving in the text and releasing Temple of the Sea as widescreen only (both trivial things that only a small group were concerned about) Everyone thinks it improved, but that's only because Battle Frontier was a filler run with many good episodes. The truth remains to be seen, and it only will be seen once a full run begins with Diamond and Pearl.

 

[Jnoo]

All the voices are either workable or spot on perfect.

Brock: Probably the best voice on the show, next to may.

May: Second best. Her performance in Movie 9 was amazing

Max: Won't be around for a while, but tolerable.

Jessie: Yet another good voice, third best.

James: Better than Eric's, even with slight lack of emotion. Nasaly over Squealing for the win.

Meowth: He came along way for sure. I think he's improved a lot and I think he does Meowth just fine. I do prefer Maddie's, but his is right up there, IMO.

Hikari: Too early to make a heavy judgement, but good for the most part

Paul: Also a good voice. I would also like to see more of his performance before making a real judgement, but this is what I think right now.

Ash: The best for last. She came a long way since early BF. From the suckiest voice to one of the more better voices. Now I can say one thing: Those who still call her emotionless are completely biased against Sarah. There's no other way to put it. Her performances in Pace: The Final Fronteir and Movie 9 were probably her best overall. That's where she proved to me that she can do a better job than Veronica would have ever done. Emotion wise and performance wise. And yes, I state that as my truth on the matter. Bash me all you want, but trust me, your arguments will be nothing but bias.

 

[Kthleen]

I don't really like the Japanese DP theme. It's better than the dub one that has been given so far, but unlike most of the other Japanese opening themes (i.e., everything that's not "Pokémon Symphonic Medley" or the Whiteberry version of "Mezase Pokemon Master"), I prefer to skip it.

As for the voices:
-I agree with Scott85's comment that the females got the best new voices. Didn't particularly like Delia's, though.
-Brock got a good voice, too.
-James, Meowth, and Prof. Oak still bother me.
-Max also did a *little* bit, but we won't have to hear from him anymore anyway.
-Ash's new voice still makes me want to break something a lot of the time, but I tolerate it long enough to watch the show. I think at some point (don't remember where, sorry), I started to get used to it/it improved(?), but later, it started to suck again, at least to my perceptions. I seem to remember liking his yelling voice more, probably because it was higher than his speaking voice.
-Everyone else, I either didn't notice or didn't care enough about to comment on. Or I forgot.

I preferred the original Meowth (though it's not like we'll get to hear him again...), as well as early Ash, early Brock, and early Stuart!James.


The Mirage special... I have to agree with TGB. The voices, along with the weird art, kind of messed it up for me. Parts of the story were rather bizarre as well, such as Mewtwo's "Pokimon heads stickin' out of mah body firin' attacks" thing. The mirage concept was interesting. Had Yung not gone crazy with it, I wonder how it, for the most part, might have been perceived by other trainers. Would they have thought it immoral/sick? Or would they have thought of it like playing a strange, live-action video game, but they still would have preferred real Pokémon by far? Or would they have thought it "totally cool," and many, if not most, switch over to mirage Pokémon or mix them in teams with real ones? I would have liked to see how the world reacted to it, how people in each category would have reacted to each other, and who would "come out on top" (probably those who think it's wrong...).

 

[Pokemon X]

Mastermind was sorta meh plotwise and all, but the voices have gotten more comfortable in their roles, for sure... don't really remember what most of the old voices sound like anymore. Life moves on, I guess? Loooove the job NewBrock has been doing... (yay Tucker)! Kinda like that Ash sounds older too, I know he's supposed to be a timeless character but c'mon, it's been 10 seasons! I've gone from wanting the old VAs back to being fine with the show as it is and even preferring some of the new VAs.

New music doesn't bother me too much, DP opening's weak but I liked a lot of the other US opening songs. Yeah, they're a little cheesy, but so are most of the JP opening theme songs ever... *shrug*

So overall I think the show is on track.It's not amazingly better but to be honest, it's a repetitive kids show... I don't expect high art. Besides, after 9 years and a lot of people, including me, who wrote in after Mastermind to protest the changes, maybe PUSA was never going to make huge changes to 4Kids' format this late in the game or thinks most fans wants things in 4Kids style. Things can still evolve over time, though, let's see how the 20th anniversary special goes...

 

[peno]

Ash: The best for last. She came a long way since early BF. From the suckiest voice to one of the more better voices. Now I can say one thing: Those who still call her emotionless are completely biased against Sarah. There's no other way to put it. Her performances in Pace: The Final Fronteir and Movie 9 were probably her best overall. That's where she proved to me that she can do a better job than Veronica would have ever done. Emotion wise and performance wise. And yes, I state that as my truth on the matter. Bash me all you want, but trust me, your arguments will be nothing but bias.

And aren't you biased against Veronica Taylor? I don't like Veronica either, but saying Sarah is better then Veronica? You must be either deaf or insane in your hate against Veronica Taylor. Sarah's performance in movie 9 were still far beyond Veronica Taylor's. Plus her teenage voice is out of character.
I still think PUSA should get chance to Kayzie Rogers to play Ash. I hoped if she get her chance, she improved Ash to be much better then not only Sarah, but even better then Veronica.

 

[Habunake]

I thought Sarah did a great job in Movie 9.

And her voice isn't "out of character" it sounds deeper, but it's not out of character because of that.

I don't get what's so wrong with changing Ash slightly, as Maddie and Stuart changed the characters they took over (Meowth and James).

 

[Arseus Ex Machina]

Mastermind of Mirage was interesting on how it interpreted a Gameshark user. But, I can't help but think that it feels unresolved. Dr. Yung walked into his laboratory when it was going up in flames and Officer Jenny said that she couldn't confirm whether or not Dr. Yung was still alive (his body wasn't even found).