So why do you think Best Wishes is toned down compared to DP?

[Cybersai]

Now 55 episodes in, everyone seems to notice that not only have the battles been toned down from DP, but the actual story/rivals/character/pokemon handling has also been toned down from the previous series.

I have a theory on this. I think DP wound up being too over the top for new children. The series went on for 4 years, so kids who started watching it in 2006 probably never made it to the end of it in 2010 to see it play out. Their attention span didn't last for long, so now BW is probably going to wind up being shorter. Tomioka was probably advised not to do something similar with BW.

The Pokemon handling has changed because kids just want to see Ash battle with new monsters. The rivals have become more one-note because Paul wasn't very likeable to children, he was aimed at older fans. So Trip has become the very definition of a cardboard rival.

And as much as I like Iris and Cilan, you can tell that neither of them have really developed or changed much at all since the beginning of the series. We get little pieces of Iris' backstory, but its few and far inbetween.

The TR/TP stuff seemed to be the one thing that could have topped Galactic/Pokehunter J, but we don't know how it will play out.

I honestly think Tomioka was advised to tone down Best Wishes for new children, because DP felt like it was aimed at people who had been watching pokemon since the beginning. Thoughts?

 

[pharaohyami5000]

Tomioka hasn't been much involved in writing as much episodes for BW. Seem to be going for the same number he did for OS (Kanto/Orange and Johto) and AG (though I think he did a little more for AG, not sure about this). DP was his heavy involvement as many of us know. I feel he's still ticked off at his Team Rocket VS Team Plasma sitting on the uh... ignore list like some of their more previous series had (Kanto and AG) so I felt the episodes he's written for BW has a sort of rush in it, except VS Lenora 1 and the 2nd part of the Subway Masters episodes (probably more). Doesn't help at all if an episode has 3+ plots are crammed in and some or 1 of them didn't develop as great.

Would have been better if we follow a new trainer and we experience more of his/her methods, good and bad, instead of taking little continuity of Ash and just drop it without a good explanation.

 

[ivantuga2]

Here's a listing of percentage of Tomioka's involvement in the series as writer of the episodes taken from Bulbapedia, ordered by regions:

Kanto - 18/83 (21,69%) - including the two special episodes
OI - 9/35 (25,71%)
Johto - 28/158 (17,72%)
Hoenn - 22/133 (16,54%)
Kanto BF - 13/59 (22,03%)
Sinnoh - 62/191 (32,46%) - As we know, his big work.
Unova - 8/51 (15,69%) - So far, not including the two unaired TR/TP episodes that were written by him.

So yeah, we could say that Atsuhiro Tomioka's role has diminished a lot compared to his Sinnoh days. I think he signed a contract in 2006 to be the head writer and direct DP's story with great freedom, hence the series feeling much more story-driven than any before or after it. Maybe he felt it was enough to direct one series and decided to return to the standards of OS and AG? The odd thing is that he's still listed as head writer of BW series (or is he?).

I feel he's still ticked off at his Team Rocket VS Team Plasma sitting on the uh... ignore list

Agreed, I think that's one of the reasons for him being less motivated at writing episodes in BW. The quality itself of his BW episodes seems to be worse than his previous works.

 

[Sweet Veil]

DP was just as childish as BW is now, nothing has been toned down. Pokemon has been a children's show from the beginning. Nothing but, BW Pokemon is to advertise and keep focus on them better.

 

[Cybersai]

The show has always been for kids. But DP had some long running plots that felt like almost straight-up shonen.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I believe main reason for nature of writing changing to a different level in Unova is because of several changes which happened in BW games giving out vibe of fresh start.Writers probably wanted to mirror changes in games applying them directly in anime which explains why contests were removed,formula was changed to one protagonist and two sidekicks,Ash got toned down,Brock was replaced etc.

Pokemon anime is in reality marketing tool with writers simply applying things which are introduced in games into it.I highly doubt reason why style of writing changed in BW is because DP series were written more for older than target audience.If that was the case Ash wouldnt be hammered down in strength at beginning of Sinnoh( Pikachu at start wasnt same powerhouse which beat Regice),there would be more continuity present and older characters like Misty wouldnt disappear from face of existence etc.

In fact now that i think about it several people during course of DP complained how this series felt like they were written for small children finding how story in OS and AG treated show with better continuity.

And i certainly doubt target audience started to lose interest for DP which ignited change in writing once BW started.As far as i know DP had strong ratings.

True Cilan or Iris didnt developed a lot,but honestly given how they are supporting characters you cant expect that their stories get pan out in same way like Dawn or May were nor receive as much as focus.Reason why Trip is vastly different compared to Paul is because of writers wanting to add some change,because quite frankly it would be rather boring seeing another rival being taken through same route like Paul did ending up repetitive.Sam goes for pokemon rotation,Jessie,James and Meowth being promoted by Giovanni and more competent etc.

Granted this changes didnt worked out as brilliantly as some could expect but there is still left time to get things back on right track,not being too late(yet).

I wouldnt say writing was necessarily toned down,its more that writers decided to change style a bit by making series more lighthearted and filled with humor and good chemistry(something which DP series missed imo),tried to apply some different concepts in show to differentiate it from past regions as well mirroring changes which happened in games.

Would have been better if we follow a new trainer and we experience more of his/her methods, good and bad, instead of taking little continuity of Ash and just drop it without a good explanation.

Personally im more for Ash being kept with continuation of his story being made doing steps forward as experienced character(as opposite which happens lately)along with older characters being reused for a change doing continuation of their story developing them more and provide more of continuity.

Im not too keen on receiving new protagonist with same role,though i respect your opinion.

So yeah, we could say that Atsuhiro Tomioka's role has diminished a lot compared to his Sinnoh days. I think he signed a contract in 2006 to be the head writer and direct DP's story with great freedom, hence the series feeling much more story-driven than any before or after it.

Wasnt Atsuhiro Tomioka head writer for AG as well?

 

[ivantuga2]

Wasnt Atsuhiro Tomioka head writer for AG as well?

Nope, I've read once from @Musashi that there wasn't a head writer in AG.

 

[Rex Kamex]

I have a theory on this. I think DP wound up being too over the top for new children. The series went on for 4 years, so kids who started watching it in 2006 probably never made it to the end of it in 2010 to see it play out. Their attention span didn't last for long, so now BW is probably going to wind up being shorter.

Wouldn't their attention spans get bigger as the years went by?

The rivals have become more one-note because Paul wasn't very likeable to children, he was aimed at older fans.

...?

 

[Cybersai]

Wouldn't their attention spans get bigger as the years went by?

The kids who were 8 years old when DP started in 2006 were 12 by the time it ended in 2010. Some kids probably only watch the show for like 2 years and then drift out.

 

[Ampharos King]

Whether or not the viewership has increased or decreased since DP ended, Pocket Monsters has always been considered a family friendly series. Everything about the series, from its TV advertisements to Pokemon Sunday/Smash, have been geared towards a younger audience. You can't deny that the main audience for Pocket Monsters hasn't been the same all throughout its run.

There is some reason why this particular series has been toned down for younger audiences, but there are far too many factors to mete out a single answer to this question. In DP, we had a ruthless Pokemon Hunter who was willing to burn down an entire forest just to capture a single pokemon. There was heavier characterization and storytelling in DP that involved several recurring characters all at once. Now BW has focused less on what has happened in the past to what is happening currently in the present. The Don Battle tournament is an absolute perfect example of that.

Throughout that entire story arc, Bianca has been obsessed towards catching a Zorua, but she doesn't even mention that obsession when she reappears a few episodes later in Nimbasa City. If this were the writing style that DP had been known for, we might have had a resolution to this subplot by now.

 

[Sweet Veil]

Throughout that entire story arc, Bianca has been obsessed towards catching a Zorua, but she doesn't even mention that obsession when she reappears a few episodes later in Nimbasa City. If this were the writing style that DP had been known for, we might have had a resolution to this subplot by now.

She wanted Zorua true, but it's Luke's Zorua not hers she can't simply take it. She dressed Zorua up, Zorua didn't want to be with her and that's really that. I doubt DP would have given it a really really thought out plot and stuff. Especially since her wanting Zorua was for Comedy reasons.

 

[Jukain]

I can only see this resulting in a "this arc is better than that arc" sort of thing. I see no reason that ANYTHING about DP caused them to change how the show is written in BW. The only reason I see is that there was supposed to be a sort of call back to the first arc, to reflect how the games themselves were a return to the style of the first gen. Note I said "call back", which means it is supposed to be invoking the sort of things that happened then, not setting everything back to then. I don't believe this means their standards were set to then, either, as some element of everything they've learned since Kanto is still there. I will admit, things have been lackluster compared to DP, but those of us that have known the anime long enough know that this is not the worst they can do. Some of the things they've done are vaguely interesting, or have brought back aspects of anime battle that have not been seen for a long time. I will admit, it hasn't all been good, but it's at least on par with AG during Hoenn if you want me to give a comparison. (which is about in the middle of the scale when it comes to the anime's quality to me)

 

[Yankees4life]

Should've made Paul and Trip swap sagas, but now its too late

This question is easy. In DP, they were two QBs, in BW, theirs one QB and two running-backs

In other words, Ash is getting the biggest screentime possible in BW because he don't have to split anything

 

[Lafayette Excadrill]

How dumb do you think kids are? I've been watching complex anime since i was 6 and i understood every bit of it

 

[Queen Cynthia]

I'm convinced the writers realized that DP was simply too perfect and that they could never repeat this success, no matter how hard they tried. Being aware of the fact that no subsequent series could reach the standards of DP, they just didn't know what to do. Consequently, they had to tone down BW. The only way to avoid that dilemma would have been if they had continued with DP, added an E4 arc and ended the whole Animed after that.

 

[Musashi]

A few things I'd like to comment on.

1. The quality of Tomioka's episodes have absolutely nothing to do with Rocket/Plasma being shelved. The ones we've seen since were all written before the earthquake.
2. Yes, he's still the head writer.
3. At the end of the day, he doesn't get to call the shots on what happens with the show. If the producers/advertisers want the show to go in a certain direction, then that's what will happen. (See what happened with Shudo.)

As for BW being "toned down", I think it all goes back to the games sort of being a fresh start and the anime being forced to follow suit. BW being closer in tone to Kanto just doesn't seem to be something a lot of the older people in the fandom respond to.

 

[Miar]

Toned down?

Like Hunter J, or maybe even moreso, Ghetsis is a genuine Knight of Cerebus waiting to happen.
But up until he appears and after he vanishes for good, the show's relatively the same as it's almost always been. DP was just as lighthearted in-between its villain subplots as BW is now.

 

[Cybersai]

Its definitely toned down. The battles have generally been shorter and less intense. The villains are non-existent. The rivalries aren't pushing the boundaries. Nobody is trying to kill Ash and co. like Hunter J or Saturn and Mars did.

The main cast, thus far, has no struggles. Ash may be losing a lot but it makes no difference to him. Iris and Cilan are just breezing through.

There are also far less continuing plots or overall characterisation. What happened to Tepig's trainer who abandoned it? Why is Snivy so strong? Why was Excadrill made to obey so quickly? Everything is far less focused.

 

[Blue1225]

Definitely seem as if the writings toned donw. From Ash being 10, to the battles being shorter, the entire series has been toned down for the newer and younger viewers.

 

[Cybersai]

There's also a clear lack of story arcs again. I know we just got the Don battle tournament and that Meowth arc, but aside from that, there has been nothing.