Something that bothers me about some fans' attitudes about the movies...

[monkeyjb1988]

Why do some fans consider the movies to not be canon with the anime? I mean, it continues the story of Ash and his friends and they don't look different from their series' look (like the first Power Rangers movie compared to the older series). The movies are basically extended episodes (with higher budgets) without being split up into separate parts.

I know there are some continuity errors between some movies and the series (Power of One comes to mind when one realizes the Tracey didn't as much as drool when he saw Professor Oak), but the series doesn't exactly win that many awards for best continuity, so we can't bash the movies if they make a mistake. (Actually, Power of One is the only one that comes to mind when a movie makes a goof the series has consistent about; ie. Tracey's worshipping Oak).

I don't mean to sound mean to fans who would never put the movies and episodes in the same story timeline. I was just curious why some fans think the movies and series are separate.

 

[Cybersai]

I've always figured the movies tie into the show. Mewtwo with armor was seen in several Kanto episodes prior to the first movie. Likewise the "Mewtwo Returns" special is a direct continuation from the first movie, and it doesn't make sense unless it takes place.

I was just rewatching the Lucario movie the other day, and even in that movie there's a flashback where Ash talks about running away from the flock of Spearow from the first episode. A direct reference to the series.

Likewise, we know the reason Prof. Oak seems to favor Ash over Gary is because of the events in the 4th movie. Not to mention James says he saw a Lugia before during the Whirl Islands ep, Ash says the same about Suicune.

The Pokemon on the group are always correct to when the movie takes place, so I don't see the problem. The movies are just huge adventures anyway, they're wrapped up by the end so its like any normal episode, just extended to 1 hour and a half and with better animation.

 

[Geodude]

Not to mention the most recent example: when the gang first reached Veilstone City, Ash was the first to recognize the stray attacks flying towards them as Aura Spheres, an obvious reference to the Lucario movie. Usually, Brock is the first to do things like recognize attacks.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I discussed this on Serebii not too long ago. Let me quote my post (adapted because I remembered another point):


1 is canon since it tied in with the episodes.
2 is canon since Ash refered to the "Lugia we met in the Orange Islands later". It also gets referenced in movie 5
3 is referenced in movie 10
4 is canon because Ash met Suicune in it, something he refers to later when he meets Eusine (yes I know he saw Suicune in the first Johto ep, but he didn't MEET it until the fourth movie)
5 ties in with 2 and has passing hidden references to some of the previous Legendaries (I haven't seen it yet so there may be more)
6 is referenced in other places, in particular movies 8 and 10
7 introduces what would later be Drew's home town
8 introduced the concept of Aura, something that would later come to have a role in the show itself (in particular, that Ash has aura powers). It also referenced movie 6
9 introduces Pokemon Rangers, seen later on the show, as well as Jackie Walker being seen elsewhere
10 has had a crapton of references to it, in particular the statue of the Time-Space tower being seen in a museum and the Twerps freaking out when they hear that Dialga and Palkia are somewhere later on (although it was only statues)



Yes, I know Ash says of Articuno "wouldn't it be great if it were really real", but keep in mind two things
-He's always demonstrated selective memory
-The line could be taken to mean that *specific* Articuno in Johto rather than Arti as a species.

 

[Cybersai]

Something that is amusing is Ash recognizes Mew in the Lucario movie, but if you remember Mewtwo wiped out his memory from the first movie, so Ash should not know who Mew is.

Naturally Ash saw Mewtwo again in "Mewtwo Returns" so he knows who he is, but Mew wasn't seen by Ash in that movie, yet in the Lucario movie he seems to know what it is.

The thing is, the first movie hypes Mew up as if nobody in the world knows it exists, yet Kid Summers, the character from the 8th movie, has apparently been trying to track it down for awhile.

Also, didn't Ash recognize the Regi's when Brandon had them since he saw them in Movie 8?

 

[Geodude]

The thing is, the first movie hypes Mew up as if nobody in the world knows it exists, yet Kid Summers, the character from the 8th movie, has apparently been trying to track it down for awhile.

But there was no definition of how long she had been at it for. And there was a significant timespan between the first and eighth movies, obviously. She easily could have somehow found out about it at some point after the first movie.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

It was always presented as a legend. The second movie presented Lugia as something no one had ever seen (something SAID in the Japanese version...while the camera shows a figure that looks just like it, something that's never made an ounce of sense to me), yet Jirarudan was damn sure it was there. Which it was. Kidd could have been staking on a similar claim.

 

[Nando]

And we know Giratina and the Sky Bouquet: Shaymin is in continuity as it is in fact a direct sequel to The Rise of Darkrai. Likewise, Movie 12---currently known as Dialga vs. Palkia vs. Giratina---is a sequel to the 11th.

 

[Lil Brother]

Of course they are. I agree with the OP here; people insisting on the movies not being canon is more annoying than the Pikachu gender debates. ;P

Also, didn't Ash recognize the Regi's when Brandon had them since he saw them in Movie 8?

I do remember Ash knowing what the Regis are but I'm pretty sure it was in Movie 8 itself... o.o Guess the Regis aren't so mysterious in the anime continuity?

 

[PDL]

They are canon, but they're often mistaken for "not canon" due to the way they are written.

The movies are written in such a way so that they can be enjoyed even if you don't watch the anime that much (although being on regular TV makes it much more accessable to the audience at large then a movie is.) They are also written so that you don't need to watch the movies to follow along with the plot of the TV show. It's on this assumption that people think the movies don't count as canon since they have very little impact on the TV show's plot. No captures, evolutions or cast changes are made in movies. The TV show may make a reference to a major movie plot point (like Ash's Aura powers), but that's the extent of it.

 

[Cybersai]

Also, Charizard appearing in Movie 3...we see the Charicific Valley from Johto.

Its another direct continuation from the regular show.

 

[Pokemaster Justin]

In movie two don't we see a picture of Ash with his picture of his trophy from the Indigo League? A direct show reference right there as a continuation of past events.

 

[Luna Tiger]

It's not about what's referenced from movie to movie or what's referenced in the movie from the series.

What makes a movie canon is what's in the series that references the movies.

I'm not convinced all of them have a solid place in the canon series timeline. That's the problem with the poll, by the way. I think some can be canon, and some aren't.

 

[PDL]

Of course, what counts as canon and what doesn't anywhere is highly debateable.

The CD dramas for instance. They're usually treated as canon around this site despite the fact that there are next to no references anywhere else in the entire franchise. Was there ever a third Rocket member named Mondo? Was Team Rocket ever founded by Giovanni's mother? It doesn't really matter either way in the end. Since it doesn't affect the rest of the franchise as a whole.

 

[Pokemaster Justin]

uh why...I don't understand why the movie referencing the series doesn't count. Obviously they acknowledge that they are in the same timeline of events if they can remember something from the past.

Honestly all the movies are cacnon, and they make no difference to the hundreds of fillers in the series that would be considered cannon.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Was Team Rocket ever founded by Giovanni's mother?

Actually, we don't even know *that*, just that she was the leader some time before him. We have no clue who founded it.

 

[Luna Tiger]

If a visual franchise is built on a series, /that/ is the central canon; what happens in the series is unrefutable to the timeline (even the fillers). There is no question which canon trumps what.

If it spawns movies, those are debatable UNLESS the series references them and/or they fit within the parameters of possibility. The first movie is canon. I will give it that, because with the mind-wipe thing, that reverses the entire actions of the movie, making it possible to place, nevermind the armored Mewtwo that blew Gary out of the water in the series, putting Mewtwo's ownership into Giovanni's hands. The only thing questionable about it is where it could possibly fit in the timeline between the Viridian Gym battle and the beginning of the Indigo League.

I'm simply not convinced about the rest.

Saying a movie acknowledging the series doesn't make it canon; the first Power Ranger movie featuring the Ninjetti isn't canon to the first Power Ranger timeline, because the series debunked it with a different origin for the Ninjetti powers, even though they acknowledged, oh, Rita and Zed as the villains of the series. *is a dweeb and will use these nerdy examples if necessary*

 

[PDL]

Actually, we don't even know *that*, just that she was the leader some time before him. We have no clue who founded it.

That's not really the point. The fact that Team Rocket was even *around* for longer then Giovanni was head of it is up for debate on weither it's canon or not. Since the only hint we have of Team Rocket's history is from CD dramas that never made it out of Japan.

If the validity of *full length movies* is being debated as canon, what does it mean for the CD dramas?

Also, as mentioned, the movies are written in such a way so that they can be enjoyed without watching the anime and be missed without missing anything vital. They are, in a way, a glorified filler episode.

 

[Rosakai]

I've always viewed the movies as canon; never once doubted that they were. I don't understand why people say that they have no place in the anime canon, either...

 

[Luna Tiger]

Because they probably are used to anime movies having no place in the series canon. Like all but one of the DBZ movies (tell me how Janemba fits the storyline, I'll give you all the gold of Egypt). Or some of One Piece's movies, and probably all of Naruto's, etc. They are pretty much considered eye-candy, what-ifs, and stand-alone stories with no overall impact on the series itself.