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Sorry Al, Detroit is fucked

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Wagner can go to Hell for all I care. The same goes for the Ford family and whoever is running Chrysler at the moment. I've been saying the leadership of the big two and third were a bunch of morons and now they've proven it to the world.
 
Getting rid of the leadership should hinge on any bailout. Seriously, these idiots could screw up a one car funeral. All our problems up here came out of decisions made at the top. The auto industry will never recover with them at the helm.
 
http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/23/news/companies/citigroup/index.htm?postversion=2008112400

Once again, the U.S. Government proves the incompetance of those who run financial institutions should be overlooked.

But Ford, Chrysler & GM? Nah. They ran their companies into the ground. Let 'em fail! Let all the poor saps who had nothing to do with company decisions lose their jobs!

On another note, anyone think that this Recession will end the war in Iraq? The US will hardly be able to maintain a war, much less two when it's collapsing in on itself.

EDIT: I'm still waiting to hear from the Government about when my bailout money for my student loans is coming.
 
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In my opinion, they need to go bankrupt so they can get rid of the unions that are driving these companies to scuppers. Other car companies that aren't unionized are doing much better than the ones asking for bailout money.
 
Yeah. Let's blame the unions. Let's blame the people who actually bust their asses making the stuff. God forbid they be able to make a comfortable living for their own labor. Anyone who honestly believes this shit needs to take a very long walk off a very short pier.

The foreign car companies are doing well because they aren't being run by morons. I think it's Honda that has a 100 year plan. The Detroit automakers can't see past the next quarter.

Here's a gem of GM's stupidity. They had a choice between designing a rear wheel drive sedan and another massive truck. They chose the truck even though there was more demand for the sedan.

Then the leadership awards themselves massive bonuses and perks.

That's what we have to suffer under up here in Detroit.
 
That's why they're better off going bankrupt. The unions have an unfortunate side effect in that they make manufacturing more expensive. The car companies in trouble also have blockheaded leadership.

The car companies that aren't going bankrupt have neither of these.

I'm looking at things this way. Throwing money at the car companies isn't going to save them. It's a short term solution to a long term problem. In order to fix the problem so that this mess doesn't occur again, then a restructuring of the leadership is necessary, and the unions need to back off for a while until everything gets back in place.

Ultimately, when Obama is sworn in, he's likely to give them the money. The Democrats owe far too much to the unions to refuse them.
 
Arcane Mind, the bigger issue is, who gets hurt when GM goes belly-up? The workers, or the execs?

The unions aren't blameless, but there isn't a single good American hybrid sedan. The American car companies make hybrid SUVs. That's like taking a guy who does speedballs regularly and detoxing him by having him substitute large quantities of alcohol for the depressant effect of the heroin.

It's a REALLY bad solution to your problems.
 
You have a point. But you also have to think of this: If the Fed gives them the money and they go belly-up anyway, then the money given to them is wasted and can't be recovered. Without some kind of restructuring, I wouldn't trust the companies with ANY money. That's one reason I was against the big 700 billion bailout in the first place.
 
That's why congress is demanding a viable plan before they hand them money. Congress should really write out a plan themselves and tell the automakers what they have to do with the money which is what Obama wants to do.
 
It's fine to blame management and the unions for the troubles the auto-makers have. But what about the consumers? We aren't exactly blameless ourselves either.

When gas was cheap, we bought SUVs, pickup trucks, and anything with a big V8 motor. Cars with high MPG ratings? We weren't interested in them. So, Detroit didn't make them except to fulfill CAFE requirements.

So, when gas prices went over 4 bucks, what did consumers want? Cars Detroit couldn't crank out in large numbers on short notice.

Now that gas prices are two bucks or less, what are consumers going to demand? High MPG cars or low MPG cars? Econo cars or something with a big V8?
 
Detroit (and now the foreign companies)is also suffering from the fact people who use to make $70/hour are now making $8/hour. Wages are down across the board and guess what, people can't buy stuff anymore. Supply side economics has finally failed in craptactular fashion.
 
I don't think the government should be a free money shop, but I do think that the "LET THEM ALL ROT" attitude of some people is very simplistic--bordering on radical. There needs to be some in-between.
 
Misty said:
In a recession? Probably high. A return to bad habits would require a combination of low gas prices and a GROWING economy - a rather dubious possibility, I think.
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I would agree. But where does that leave Detroit auto-makers? Do they hunker down until the market turns around and people want to buy high-profit SUVs, pickup trucks, and anything with a big V8? Or do they scramble to build econo-boxes that get high MPG? Which people might not buy anyway? Japanese auto sales--I hate to say imports since many are assembled here in the US--are down too.

I'm glad I'm not an exec at an auto-maker.

evkl said:
I don't think the government should be a free money shop, but I do think that the "LET THEM ALL ROT" attitude of some people is very simplistic--bordering on radical. There needs to be some in-between.
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Agreed.
 
evkl said:
I don't think the government should be a free money shop, but I do think that the "LET THEM ALL ROT" attitude of some people is very simplistic--bordering on radical. There needs to be some in-between.
Click to expand...

It's not radical, it's typical Conservative thinking. They don't even recognize the hypocrisy of their own actions. They accuse the Left of being radical, stubborn, dangerous yet the RIGHT is the one advocating letting major industries fail and the loss of thousands of jobs.
 
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