SPECULATION: Lillie's Original Region

[Alola]

Alola everyone! Just a quick thread to see where people feel Lillie and her family originated from? Dialogue in the game, specifically Lillie's diary, implies that Lillie and her family are not from Alola. Rather, they seem to be from another region that at least is familiar with the concepts of Gym Leaders. Thus what do you all think?

Personally, given the heavy accordion and the stylized clothing she and her family shares, I think Lillie and her folks come from Kalos.

 

[Silktree]

I think that Lillie would have mentioned her family being from any known region.

Lusamine and Mohn are derived from German words, so I'll go with a Germany-based region.

 

[Esserise]

Darnit, right as I delete my first post to commit to Germany instead, I'm beaten to it.

But yeah that, for the same reason.

 

[Morningstar]

Gladion's theme reminds me of Unova for some reason, and I think there could be some logic of them originating there

• Its Geographical proximity. Alola is close to Unova if we assume The geography of this basis are in play (and since there are references to Kanto, a partial version of Japan, as well as Johto, and that the natives partially hail form there. It is very likely this is the case.
• Lusamine's plans under the neurotoxins effects are similar to both Plasma and Flare's leaders. An abusive parent with a twisted scene of beauty and the willingness to act upon it. But I think the Aether Foundation might be similar to the faction of Team Plasma still loyal to N in BW2. A group that wanted to benefit Pokémon, as well as Galactic with the research of an aspect of the cosmos and the reversal of their roles (Galactic was a syndicate that went legit, while Aether was a legitimate organization that was corrupted from the inside out). So a Sinnoh origin (and remake tease ) wouldn't be out of the question.
• As a New York ersatz, Unova is a hub of powerful and smart people (including a child prodigy and at least 4 professors, thought one of them handed the job to his daughter). It would be the likely place for Aether or at least Mohn and Lusamine, got their starts in research, Mohn's theory or discovery of the Ultra Wormhole would had been a breakthrough and to get him enough fame and fortune to start a research institute where the wormhole is likely to be, In this case Alola, possibly with enough left over for either him or Lusamine to start a side thing there (In this case the Aether Foundation). (note that the other person in Alola researching the wormholes is Burnett who was also of Unovan origin).
• There is also an employee that is confirmed to be form Unova, and possibly part of the aforementioned Plasma "branch".

Other possibilities are a Germanic region, though I think Mohn is not derived form German(ic languages) but the franchise title. And to a lesser extent, Sinnoh.

 

[PurplePopplio]

I think that Lillie is from Sinnoh. She loves to read which the Canalave Library provides and she knows about Rotom.

This is all a stretch, yes. But there isn't much to go on.

 

[Soki]

I think that Lillie would have mentioned her family being from any known region.

Lusamine and Mohn are derived from German words, so I'll go with a Germany-based region.

I just fully agree with this. Also a lily is 'lilie' in German, so that fits too (though it is probably written like that in other languages too).

 

[PurplePopplio]

What if these German links are reference to Gen 8 being based on Germany?

 

[Almonds]

I'm going to say Sinnoh because

Spoiler

Mohn got lost in the Ultraspace while studying about dimensions or something and seeing how the Foundation was doing all sorts of experiments on Type:Null to recreate the powers of Arceus, it's possible the family - or at least Lusamine and Mohn - had lived in Sinnoh for all that information and motivation.

 

[Silktree]

What if these German links are reference to Gen 8 being based on Germany?

Considering that Game Freak sent off Lillie and Lusamine to Kanto, I don't think that their home region matters. It isn't actually referenced.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

I have to agree with a Germanic region-that's also where Wicke and Faba get their names from, so it seems there's some kind of connection. Given that it's barely brought up, though, I feel like it was left vague so that it could be filled in later, not as foreshadowing.

I think that Lillie is from Sinnoh. She loves to read which the Canalave Library provides and she knows about Rotom.

This is all a stretch, yes. But there isn't much to go on.

Er, books aren't exactly restricted to one region. (Nor is Rotom, but it is more related to Sinnoh, since it was discovered there)

 

[Bob Fizzle]

I don't think Rotom's a very good argument for Lillie being from Sinnoh. She could easily know about Rotom because she's living with Kukui before the player gets Rotom.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

Lusamine's plans under the neurotoxins effects are similar to both Plasma and Flare's leaders. An abusive parent with a twisted scene of beauty and the willingness to act upon it. But I think the Aether Foundation might be similar to the faction of Team Plasma still loyal to N in BW2. A group that wanted to benefit Pokémon, as well as Galactic with the research of an aspect of the cosmos and the reversal of their roles (Galactic was a syndicate that went legit, while Aether was a legitimate organization that was corrupted from the inside out). So a Sinnoh origin (and remake tease ) wouldn't be out of the question.

aye I also see Gen 5 and 7 similarities all over the place

I think that Lillie would have mentioned her family being from any known region.

Lusamine and Mohn are derived from German words, so I'll go with a Germany-based region.

Was tempted to say Kalos, since France is also in Europe (similarities, eh?), but a Germany region is completely plausible too.

 

[Ereshkigal]

I'm tempted to say France, but not the portion of it we saw in X/Y. France has one of the largest communities of Germans born outside Germany (one of the other nations with that distinction being the United States) and her clothes have a bit of a French feel to them.

So, I'm betting she's French-born German.

And someone else in the room pointed out her clothes could be stylized Southern Belle, giving argument that her entire family may actually be American and possibly from the East Coast.

 

[Silktree]

Her clothes are Nihilego-based...

 

[Ereshkigal]

Her clothes are Nihilego-based...

Where in the story does it say that? Her hat is entirely wrong for that (it is barely remotely the right shape), and we know her mother strictly controlled her clothes and would have likely been aware of any major discrepancies like that. The outfit design could also be based around Lusamine's obsession with the color white (the entire Aether Foundation is themed around this color), which if true would explain why her rebellious son chose a black-based color scheme.

On the other hand, Lillie's hat is more consistent with a style that was popular in America for awhile, which also has shown up in France and a few other nations. The wide brim it has is because of it trying to protect the face from sunlight, since the style was most popular back when people believed that sunlight was harmful and tried to avoid tanning. Her skirt looks like a shortened ball gown as well.

 

[Esserise]

Where in the story does it say that? Her hat is entirely wrong for that (it is barely remotely the right shape), and we know her mother strictly controlled her clothes and would have likely been aware of any major discrepancies like that.

I don't know why you're expecting it to be a 1:1 match, since Lusamine probably only had some vague descriptions about Nihilego in Mohn's research to go off of. Lillie's outfit is definitely meant to resemble Nihilego (wide-rimmed hat, twin braids in the front to look like Nihilego's uppermost tentacles, flared skirt with transparent elements, and then the white knee-high boots to match the transparencies on Nihilego's "legs"). That's the whole point of Lillie mentioning that her mother has always chosen her clothing. Lusamine is obsessed with Nihilego and projects that onto her kids by dressing them to look like it. It's symbolism. They don't state it explicitly, but they don't need to, because it is incredibly obvious.

 

[Ereshkigal]

I don't know why you're expecting it to be a 1:1 match, since Lusamine probably only had some vague descriptions about Nihilego in Mohn's research to go off of. Lillie's outfit is definitely meant to resemble Nihilego (wide-rimmed hat, twin braids in the front to look like Nihilego's uppermost tentacles, flared skirt with transparent elements, and then the white knee-high boots to match the transparencies on Nihilego's "legs"). That's the whole point of Lillie mentioning that her mother has always chosen her clothing. Lusamine is obsessed with Nihilego and projects that onto her kids by dressing them to look like it. It's symbolism. They don't state it explicitly, but they don't need to, because it is incredibly obvious.

I'm not expecting a 1:1 match. I'm expecting something better than "vaguely resembles."

And, again, the clothing choice doesn't necessarily indicate that Lillie is intended to resemble Nihilego. It could very much mean that she's intended to resemble the other employees of the Aether Foundation, all of whom have outfits that are white with some French styling to them. All of which are also styles that were once popular in America's past. It could be indicative not that Lusamine is trying to turn her daughter into her favorite Pokemon, but that Lusamine's obsession with Nihilego is so complete that she's started to see her own children as just employees.

Which would, in turn, explain her treatment of them; she's switched from treating them like she's their mother to treating them like she's their employer. And as an employer, that includes controlling how they're dressed (uniform policy).

It would also fit in with the outfit choices made by Gladion and Lillie both when choosing their own clothes; Gladion, who has come to see his mother as an enemy that needs stopped, chooses an outfit color scheme that is the opposite of Lusamine's preference. Lillie, who sees her mother as someone who needs help and used to control her, stays with the white color scheme to show she hasn't fully abandoned her mother even while coming to embrace her own independence.

I think people are trying so hard to make the Pokemon outfit angle fit that they're missing the even more obvious connection.

 

[Esserise]

I'm not expecting a 1:1 match. I'm expecting something better than "vaguely resembles."

And, again, the clothing choice doesn't necessarily indicate that Lillie is intended to resemble Nihilego. It could very much mean that she's intended to resemble the other employees of the Aether Foundation, all of whom have outfits that are white with some French styling to them. All of which are also styles that were once popular in America's past. It could be indicative not that Lusamine is trying to turn her daughter into her favorite Pokemon, but that Lusamine's obsession with Nihilego is so complete that she's started to see her own children as just employees.

Which would, in turn, explain her treatment of them; she's switched from treating them like she's their mother to treating them like she's their employer. And as an employer, that includes controlling how they're dressed (uniform policy).

It would also fit in with the outfit choices made by Gladion and Lillie both when choosing their own clothes; Gladion, who has come to see his mother as an enemy that needs stopped, chooses an outfit color scheme that is the opposite of Lusamine's preference. Lillie, who sees her mother as someone who needs help and used to control her, stays with the white color scheme to show she hasn't fully abandoned her mother even while coming to embrace her own independence.

I think people are trying so hard to make the Pokemon outfit angle fit that they're missing the even more obvious connection.

On the contrary, I think you're overthinking it. There is a reason why everybody and their grandmother immediately connected Lillie to Nihilego at the very moment that Nihilego was revealed back in September. It's not even "trying hard," they have extremely similar contours and silhouettes.

I'd argue that "Lillie and Nihilego look similar > Lillie mentions that mom picks her clothes > Mom just happens to be psychotically obsessed with Nihilego > Mom dressed Lillie like Nihilego" is a much simpler and intuitive conclusion than "Lillie wears white > Hey wait all the Aether employees wear white > Mom thinks of Lillie as an employee and is implementing a dress code, and the resemblance to mom's alien jellyfish fetish is just a coincidence".

 

[Ereshkigal]

On the contrary, I think you're overthinking it. There is a reason why everybody and their grandmother immediately connected Lillie to Nihilego at the very moment that Nihilego was revealed back in September. It's not even "trying hard," they have extremely similar contours and silhouettes.

I'd argue that "Lillie and Nihilego look similar > Lillie mentions that mom picks her clothes > Mom just happens to be psychotically obsessed with Nihilego > Mom dressed Lillie like Nihilego" is a much simpler and intuitive conclusion than "Lillie wears white > Hey wait all the Aether employees wear white > Mom thinks of Lillie as an employee and is implementing a dress code, and the resemblance to mom's alien jellyfish fetish is just a coincidence".

Actually, my logic was, "Aether Foundation is costumed like a villainous team > their clothes have a certain theme > Lillie's clothes match the theme and is reasonable for an admin of that villainous team." It goes hand in hand with the other obvious hints that GF dropped. Including the other obvious hints and spoilers below.

Spoiler

The Aether Foundation working with Team Skull was pretty obvious as soon as you saw them... especially since parts of their plotline are callbacks to Black/White and Black 2/White 2. Lillie's in-game character growth closely mirrors N's. Top it all off, Gladion's past when you meet him is a massive spoiler for the decision that Guzma makes later on; the two characters have much more in common, including rebellion against abusive parents, the idea to steal Pokemon, and even their color scheme.

And Team Skull's entire idea of stealing Pokemon, and eventual disbandment due to the player, are massive callbacks to Team Rocket, and so is their color scheme.

Game Freak was basically using the designs and knowledge of previous games to drop massive hints for those paying attention.

The part where this falls apart is that Lusamine is not just obsessed with Nihilego, but with all of the Ultra Beasts. She even vaguely resembles one (on the same level that Lillie resembles Nihilego): Pheromosa. Notably, despite her obsession with Nihilego, Lusamine herself doesn't try to emulate the Pokemon... and trying to argue that she's using outfit control to make others do so brings up the question of why Lusamine would style her own outfit after a totally different Ultra Beast.

It falls apart even further when you consider that most of the Ultra Beasts don't resemble people within the Aether Foundation, but actually people outside it. Xurkitree, for example, looks like Guzma (I've seen people suggest Gladion, but Guzma's hair makes him for a closer match). And no one besides Lusamine and Lillie within the Aether Foundation resembles an Ultra Beast.

The other oddity is within Nihilego itself. The dex entries outright state it sometimes acts like a little girl, and drop hints this is inexplicable behavior. This oddity is also explicitly called out within the Aether Foundation portion of the game. This is a Pokemon that acts like a little girl, and they don't know why. And yet, the only little girl it could have possibly had regular contact with is Lillie.

So if there is a connection, all of the in-game evidence points more to Nihilego trying to mimic Lillie than to Lillie's mother trying to make Lillie mimic Nihilego. Especially since the massive mismatch in details we see between Lillie's outfit and Nihilego make a lot more sense if it's an animal trying to mimic a human than a human trying to replicate a creature they have a lot of data on. Even more so since Lillie's outfit doesn't even replicate Nihilego's color scheme.

 

[Esserise]

The part where this falls apart is that Lusamine is not just obsessed with Nihilego, but with all of the Ultra Beasts. She even vaguely resembles one (on the same level that Lillie resembles Nihilego): Pheromosa. Notably, despite her obsession with Nihilego, Lusamine herself doesn't try to emulate the Pokemon... and trying to argue that she's using outfit control to make others do so brings up the question of why Lusamine would style her own outfit after a totally different Ultra Beast.

It falls apart even further when you consider that most of the Ultra Beasts don't resemble people within the Aether Foundation, but actually people outside it. Xurkitree, for example, looks like Guzma (I've seen people suggest Gladion, but Guzma's hair makes him for a closer match). And no one besides Lusamine and Lillie within the Aether Foundation resembles an Ultra Beast.

Lusamine and Guzma do not resemble Pheromosa and Xurkitree, at least not within the story. Those Ultra Beasts had never been seen until Lusamine used Cosmog to open wormholes all over Alola. Only Nihilego and Guzzlord had made prior appearances, and we know that the circumstances of Guzzlord's appearance weren't related to the Aether Foundation. Which leaves Nihilego. The one Beast that has been spotted prior to the events of the story, and the one Beast that Mohn's papers were said to be about, and the one Beast that Lusamine is surrounded by and fawns over when she is in Ultra Space.

She's obsessed with Nihilego, but not with being Nihilego. That's why she doesn't imitate it herself; she sees it as something she wants to care for in the warped way that she "cares for" her children.

And yet, the only little girl it could have possibly had regular contact with is Lillie.

It couldn't have had regular contact with anybody. It never appeared in the normal dimension until halfway through the story. Judging from her reaction, that's the first time that Lusamine has seen one for herself, and if even Lusamine hadn't met one until then, then Lillie damn sure hadn't come across one.

Nihilego acting like a little girl is just another small embellishment, to add a touch of symmetry between it and Lillie. Lusamine is essentially replacing Lillie with a more "ideal" "daughter," so it follows that Nihilego acts like a prospective daughter.