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SPOILERS: Masters Eight Discussion/Speculation Thread

But we saw the Z Move vs Metagross
That's true, but I have a feeling he'll use it again instead of Maxing. Dynamax is a bit awkward because Ash's style is mostly about speed, and turning into a Kaiju is the opposite of that.

There's also a theory that the "one gimmick" rule will not be used in the finals so Ash and Leon will both use all three to fit into their goal of it being the ultimate battle. Not sure if today's episode said anything about that or not though.
 
I'm just not sure how this battle will go. Leon has proven to be...kinda broken. Kinda broken to the point I don't even know if Ash's team could handle him, even after just defeating Champion Cynthia.

It would make sense for Ash to win, but would they let him? A big part of Leon's character is being undefeated and figuring out what to do when he finally loses. It makes sense for him to lose after staying undefeated for so long. At the same time, it poses the question for Ash, what does he do? How does he handle being the strongest trainer?
 
I guess the battle will be at least three episodes long. I wonder how the first episode will play out.

If Ash gets overwhelmed in the first episode then it will just be a repeat of Cynthia vs Ash.

If Leon sweeps him and wins like he did with Diantha, the fans will get even more angry.

If Ash is on the same level as Leon, three episodes might feel a bit much? This would also imply he is much much stronger than Diantha and Alain which doesn't seem very believable.

If Ash is doing well in the first episode it might not be believable either because they portrayed Leon as being extremely overpowered.

Either way, I think the writers painted themselves into a corner here. They should have either made better battles for Diantha and Alain or skipped them altogether.
 
Leon personally asks ash to use all 3 gimmicks. At first ash feels this will be cheating but goes for it, only for Leon to whip out Gmax, Mega Evolution, a z move AND a teracrystalization.

Leon may or may not have a gen 9 pokemon, or maybe a hisui pokemon just to promote pla one last time. Also Calyrex ice rider, we have yet to see him and he already has 2 ghost types (if he has aglegislash like the games) so ghost horse gets the shaft.

Ash will Gmax pikachu...Sorry gengar.

Since everyone wants to be a Debby downer, Ash wins. No ties, no loss. He pulls a from the behind victory probably as close as the fight with cynthia was.
 
I have a feeling I might have said this before in another thread, but I always suspected that the real reason Leon is Like That is cuz they're trying to avoid an Alain 2.0 as much as the possible can, as in: making absolutely damn sure we know Leon is nigh unbeatable so we don't come expecting Ash to win and then getting mad when he doesn't.

And while, yes, I do know that losing is an integral part of Leon's character arc and would be narratively satisfying to see him lose, we also have to keep one thing in mind:

Keeping Ash around is their #1 priority which therefore come before anything else. We have seen this in every other series prior to this one, and unless they actually plan on retiring Ash, this priority will still exist. Anything that gets in the way of this will get thrown out of the window.

So unless they either plan on retiring Ash, or hard rebooting him, or coming up with something that can somehow toping becoming the #1 trainer in the world in the next series, I'm full on expecting a hard L here.
 
I don't put as much stock in the idea that beating Leon would force them to retire Ash since that used to be why people said he couldn't win a regional league.

The other factor is that JN has had a strong focus on things intended to "go viral" and they saw in Alola that letting Ash win does just that.

Finally, Leon is just such a weird choice to get adapted as a roadblock; if Ash beating the world champion was a problem, well, they didn't need to change Leon to that; even if they wanted to show off the whole world they still could have had Ash flying to cities in Galar for Gym Battles then entering the Galar League.

I'm not saying Ash winning is guaranteed or anything, of course. I just find a lot of these decisions very strange if Leon wins.
 
I could definitely see Leon making a special request to allow Ash to use all 3 gimmicks, wanting to battle Ash at his best especially after the writers created a situation where multiple Z-Moves were usable in Ash’s battle with Kukui.

Also, less of a prediction and more of a hope, that Dragonite gets a win in this battle (maybe against Dragapult) since she’s been on a bit of a losing streak and Dragonite in general have suffered in the Masters 8.
 
So... lets give me my predictions of the battle.

Ash starts off this battle with Pikachu, while Leon goes for Haxorus.
Leon and Haxorus have the upperhand, so Ash is forced to switch out Pikachu.
Ash sends out Dragonite next... who defeats Haxorus.
Leon decides to sent out Mr. Rime... Dragonite gets switched out as a result.
Dracovish enters the field and battles Mr. Rime to a draw.
Sirfetch'd enters the field for Ash... while Leon has decided for Dragapult. Dragapult defeats Sirfetch'd, giving Ash his second loss, equalizing with Leon.
Dragonite gets sent out and defeats Dragapult. Dragonite in turn gets defeated by Rillaboom, but Rillaboom gets heavily damage, forcing Leon to switch it out in favor of his Perrserker (Decided to give Leon Perrserker so he also has a Galarian Evolution and is the replacement for Aegislash). Perrserker gets defeated by Lucario. Rillaboom forces Lucario out of the battle. Gengar battles Rillaboom to a draw... making it 2-1 for Ash. Ash then sends out Lucario to battle Charizard. Lucario damages Charizard badly, but Charizard G-Maxes to take Lucario out. Pikachu enters the battle but feels the added effect of G-Max Wildfire. Pikachu and Ash enter a state of frenzy... making Ash decide for the Z-Move in order to counter the G-Max form and G-Max Wildfire. It leaves both Charizard and Pikachu heavily damaged and both have only stamina for one more attack. Leon chooses Flamethrower, while Ash chooses his favorite move, Thunderbolt. Its a head-on collison between both attacks and both Pokemon get damaged. Charizard and Pikachu both stand up... but Pikachu goes down... making the referee call the match and declare Leon the winner... after which Charizard goes down. This makes Leon relinquish his title in favor for Ash... saying that nobody has ever brought his Charizard down... so he doesn't deserve the title. Ash however, isn't satisfied and doesn't acknowledge Leon relinquising his title, because he lost fair and square. But both trainers get a mutual respect for one another... with Ash declaring his is gonna train hard so one day he will defeat Leon fair and square.

So my thought process.

It makes so much sense and is so Ash-Like to start his PWC champion battle with Pikachu... that i have chosen to do so.
Dragonite being the secondary star in this battle i also did on purpose... because she needs it.
Sirfetch'd could afford to be the fall guy going home without any wins... due to its performance against Cynthia.
Dracovish and Gengar tying with their respective opponents, is to show their natural growth in the PWC.
Lucario needed a win before going down to Charizard (Which also mimicks Greninja... since he defeated Bisharp before going down to Charizard).
 
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Ash using all the gimmicks makes sense, it's also the only realistic way for him to win.
 
Ash is definitely using Gigantamax against Leon. He already used a Z-Move and Mega Evolution, so him using Gigantamax in the final match would make sense. I'd love to see Gigantamax Pikachu again, since it'd make sense as a reflection of Ash and Leon's first meeting, but given that Pikachu has not Gigantamaxed since then, I have a bit of doubt in my mind if that'll actually happen.
 
Z move is the best against Gmax Zard, but if Pikachu will hit him with any electric move it might be enough to lower badly his stamina.

So I claim it would be better to choose here Gmax for Gengar. Lucario and Pikachu can manage without gimicks for sure, Sir fetch'd is also powerhouse. Dracovish and Dragonite take this squad for lower lvl. So it is for the best if Gengar gets the extra treatment.

Plus Ash used already the other 2 gimicks and he wants to show he had mastered them all 3 (or at least should care about it:giggle:).

Don't you think?
 
I really don’t want Ash to use three gimmicks against Leon, and I really don’t want Ash to use The Nuke as the finisher against the final obstacle AGAIN. It feels redundant. I want to see GMAX Gengar or GMAX Pikachu, or even maybe just Mega Lucario for the one gimmick.
Heck the only way I would be allowing the three gimmicks if Ash uses them unpredictability- while Mega and GMAX would go to Lucario and Gengar/Pikachu, another Pokemon could get a Z-Crystal. If Ash uses three gimmicks it feels unfair to Leon.
 
Unless of course Leon happens to have a Mega and a Z-Move himself. I know a lot of people don't think he does, but it's still possible, especially since the show has been strangely insistent in not revealing Leon's whole team despite every other non-Iris Champion having a team that's as game-accurate as possible, and if Leon's team is also completely accurate to the games, what reason is there to hide it so much?
 
I don't know what odds I'd put on it, but the stated intent for this to be the ultimate battle doesn't make it too hard for me to imagine them giving Leon all three gimmicks, especially when a battle where both trainers use all three gimmicks is a hype-generator they may not have another chance to try and is completely impossible in the games.

Besides, what better way to show how incredible Charizard is then him to survive all three?
 
I don't know what odds I'd put on it, but the stated intent for this to be the ultimate battle doesn't make it too hard for me to imagine them giving Leon all three gimmicks, especially when a battle where both trainers use all three gimmicks is a hype-generator they may not have another chance to try and is completely impossible in the games.

Besides, what better way to show how incredible Charizard is then him to survive all three?
It is a realy good way to fill 4 episodes for the final round.. and we could believe he traveled and mastered the Z move back then, and maybe even catchex Alolan Ninetales or something.. anyway we don't know his current 6, and we know they will try to make him unpredictable somehow.

But to be honest I prefer 1 gimick for them, and this time Leon should play Zard Gmax and Ash could win his best ace when he is using full power.
And then, while Dynamaxed, he unleashes a devastating Z-Move.
Now put mega sized aura for that Dai Z move
 
Unless of course Leon happens to have a Mega and a Z-Move himself. I know a lot of people don't think he does, but it's still possible, especially since the show has been strangely insistent in not revealing Leon's whole team despite every other non-Iris Champion having a team that's as game-accurate as possible, and if Leon's team is also completely accurate to the games, what reason is there to hide it so much?
They didn't hide it. They just wanted to focus on his two stars and portray them as nigh invincible. The idea that Rillaboom will play second fiddle to a random Mega or Z-Move is silly.

Ash is unprepared for Charizard and deserves to lose, which he will.


 
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Just like he lost to Cynthia?

Edit: Ash may well lose to Leon, but people have been predicting he'd lose the next battle since the last Bea match.

The writer shakeup after XYZ or whatever else changed the show's structure may very well have led to a new status quo of Ash shifting to a more standard role of winning every series instead of losing them.
 
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