Staaallllllll [Oh You]

[Our Wasted Years]

So I've basically always had the kind of hyper-offensive teams and barely ever used stall. But a few days ago I saw a YouTube wifi battle and saw how badly Blissey, Vaporeon and Dusknoir can damage whole teams. Now this team, so far, isn't bad from my experience, it just took a while for me to get used to stall and slow-paced matches. I know there are a few members here that are experienced in the stall metagame and have some really good stall teams, so tell me if I'm doing it wrong. Anyways, let's get to it and any kind of suggestion or criticism is always welcomed D; thanks in advance. Love you.

Lead

@Leftovers
EVs:HP 252/ATK 84/DEF 80/SP DEF 92
Nature: Sassy
Ability: Levitate
Moves:
~EQ
~Explosion
~Gyro Ball
~Stealth Rocks

--He set's up Stealth Rocks. EQ is to hopefully scare away Metagross, Jirachi, Infernape, or Heatran. Gyro Ball is for Ice or Rock types. Explosion=RAGEQUIT.

Physical Sweeper

@Life Orb
EVs:HP 4/ATK 252/SPE 252
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Levitate
Moves:
~EQ
~Dragon Claw
~Fire Blast
~Roost

--I needed a physical sweeper. Everything generic was too obvious and since this guy is mostly Scarfed people switch out on it thinking it's faster and will be stuck on one attack. Honestly he does alright, plus he can shield Vaporeon from Thunderbolt. If you can think of something that works 10 times better, tell me.

Special Wall

@Leftovers
EVs:HP 252/DEF 252/SPE 4
Nature: Bold
Ability: Natural Cure
Moves:
~Seismic Toss
~Protect
~Wish
~Toxic

--Eh generic wishbliss. I can't decide between this or another Blissey set I have, the other one is basically the same except it has Softboiled/Fire Blast/Seismic Toss/and the last move varies between Toxic or T-Wave. This thing comes in on all Special Attacks and Toxic+Seismic Toss stalls. Also I usually switch to Flygon to take out the steel type since he has STAB EQ and Fire Blast.

Special Sweeper

@Choice Scarf
EVs:HP 4/SPE 252/SP ATK 252
Nature: Modest
Ability: Swift Swim
Moves:
~Draco Meteor
~Dragon Pulse
~Ice Beam
~Surf

--This was originally Specs Timid Kingdra, but after I needed it to be faster I gave it a Scarf and changed it to Modest. DM and DP are for Dragons, Ice Beam is actually a filler move...screws over Celebi though so I can't complain. Surf is for Heatran and Ape mainly. If you can recommend something better I'll change it.

Physical Wall

@Leftovers
EVs:HP 252/ATK 28/DEF 228
Nature: Impish
Ability: Pressure
Moves:
~EQ
~Shadow Sneak
~Pain Split
~Will-O-Wisp

--EQ is for Ape, Tran, E-Vire, Lucario, etc. Sneak is for priority, and great to catch things like Gengar or Rotom off guard. Pain Split is for recovery and Will-O-Wisp is to just render anything physical that isn't fire useless.

Special Wall-ish/Sponge

@Leftovers
EVs:HP 188/DEF 252/SPE 68
Nature: Bold
Ability: Water Absorb
Moves:
~Surf
~Toxic
~Wish
~Protect

--Toxic Stalls Pokemon just like Blissey. It takes things down like Swampert, Gyarados, Vaporeon, or Suicune...however NOT having HP Electric hurts sometimes and I have to rely on Bliss to kill Starmie or Suicune. If Gyarados Taunts I can be screwed too because Kingdra has to hope to live, outspeed and do loads of damage. However it does wonders if I can predict well.

So yeah that's kinda the team. :/ I'm basically missing speed+power and type coverage. I need to fit in maybe a Gengar or a Starmie? Idk leave your comments and stuff.

 

[F-22]

Are you going for full stall? What you have currently is a semi-stall team and you lack many components of a regular stall team (SS, Spikes, a spinner of your own). I'll help you when you decide which one you're going for.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

Are you going for full stall? What you have currently is a semi-stall team and you lack many components of a regular stall team (SS, Spikes, a spinner of your own). I'll help you when you decide which one you're going for.

Shit you're right...I guess I didn't think it all through. Well I want to try a full stall.

 

[coolking503]

With what you have, you can only stall, but you cant damage your opponents. You need to cause residual damage either through hail, sandstorm, or toxic spikes, as well as setting up entry hazards. I hae to go to school now, I will give a full rate later.

 

[F-22]

You'll have to remake your team if you want to run pure stall. First, you want to get rid of Kingdra, Flygon, and possibly Blissey: your current lead is fine for your purposes. I say get rid of Blissey because a) it's actually a burden in this current metagame because so much can set up on it, b) you don't need it, and c) Vappy provides Wish support.

Here's some more things to consider:

Forretress: A stall team staple. Not only does it have Rapid Spin, but it also has access to every single form of entry hazard and has good typing to boot. If you run Careful, it's pretty hard to kill if you play smart and obv avoid Fire type moves. Any stall team should seriously consider Forrey.

Rotom-A: If you are playing Shoddy (and you most likely are since you have WishBliss), Rotom is the superior spinblocking choice to Dusknoir due to better typing and better moves. Rotom-H in particular is most popular due to Overheat, but the laundry machine and lawn mower also do well.

A Sand Streamer: Hippowdon is generally a better choice for stall teams because Tyranitar has some bad weaknesses, but if you want a little bit of offense on the side, you might want to look into Tar. It's supported well by Vappy, so why not?

Gyarados: Rest-talking variants are another staple of stall teams because of key resistances and the fact that they beat Heatran. When I was asshole enough to run stall, it worked quite well.

Starmie: Sorta eh, but works as a nice revenger and you can run Rapid Spin as well. Regardless of playstyle, every team needs a bit of speed, and Starmie offers a bit of the offense that you had on your previous team with some decent support for a stall team.


That's all I can think of right now, but hopefully I provided some good food for thought to get you started on a more stall-oriented team.

 

[pikmin]

I'd use a spiker, (nessesary), and a restalk shuffler.
maybe these two?

foretress @ leftovers

31/31/31/31/31/0 relaxed 252 hp 112 attack 144 defense

spikes
toxic spikes
gyro ball
explosion

and this one:

gyrados @ leftovers

flawless impish 242 hp 248 defense 12 speed.

rest
sleep talk
roar
waterfall


edit: f-22 totally beat me.

 

[F-22]

Gyro Ball is a rather poor move on Forrey. Payback is a more popular (and better) choice as numerous switch-ins, like Rotom and Starmie, are weak to it. Also, I've had better success with Careful and a special defensive spread because Forrey already has good physical defense and typing to match, and it's much harder to kill if it invests in special defense because it can take neutral special hits.

 

[Badal]

This is a messed up stall team.
If you're going for stall... Go for stall

spec'ed Kingdra in a stall team- Useless.
You need a rapid spinner + set up in a stall team rather than a sweeper.
Foretress
Relaxed:
~ Spikes / Toxic Spikes
~ Rapid Spin
~ Gyro Ball / Payback
~ Earthquake / Explosion
Should be good.
Also, get rid of Flygon, again a sweeper is bad for a stall team, so probably put in a Skarmory there...

You shouldn't mix heavy offense with stall, results are BAD.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

You'll have to remake your team if you want to run pure stall. First, you want to get rid of Kingdra, Flygon, and possibly Blissey: your current lead is fine for your purposes. I say get rid of Blissey because a) it's actually a burden in this current metagame because so much can set up on it, b) you don't need it, and c) Vappy provides Wish support.

Here's some more things to consider:

Forretress: A stall team staple. Not only does it have Rapid Spin, but it also has access to every single form of entry hazard and has good typing to boot. If you run Careful, it's pretty hard to kill if you play smart and obv avoid Fire type moves. Any stall team should seriously consider Forrey.

Rotom-A: If you are playing Shoddy (and you most likely are since you have WishBliss), Rotom is the superior spinblocking choice to Dusknoir due to better typing and better moves. Rotom-H in particular is most popular due to Overheat, but the laundry machine and lawn mower also do well.

A Sand Streamer: Hippowdon is generally a better choice for stall teams because Tyranitar has some bad weaknesses, but if you want a little bit of offense on the side, you might want to look into Tar. It's supported well by Vappy, so why not?

Gyarados: Rest-talking variants are another staple of stall teams because of key resistances and the fact that they beat Heatran. When I was asshole enough to run stall, it worked quite well.

Starmie: Sorta eh, but works as a nice revenger and you can run Rapid Spin as well. Regardless of playstyle, every team needs a bit of speed, and Starmie offers a bit of the offense that you had on your previous team with some decent support for a stall team.


That's all I can think of right now, but hopefully I provided some good food for thought to get you started on a more stall-oriented team.

What about Curselax or Crocune for Rest/SleepTalk? Also thank you.

 

[Ino-Chan]

I would go with Curselax personally. But you may get more coverage with the 'cune

 

[Our Wasted Years]

Okay I've done some testing and here is what seems to work pretty well.

Forretress@Leftovers
HP 252/DEF 144/SPDEF 112
Careful
~Payback
~Rapid Spin
~Spikes
~Toxic Spikes

--Put the Careful nature on like F-22 said. I also put the 112 EVs into SP DEF and not Attack. He will scare away Gengar and etc when they see Payback and quite honestly I don't really want to sit there using Payback. He needs the SPDEF EVs.

Gyarados@Leftovers
HP 248/DEF 248/SPE 12
Impish
~Dragon Dance
~Waterfall
~Rest
~SleepTalk

--Works pretty well...but I might consider Suicune over him...I could use a Special Attacker.

Tyranitar@Leftovers
HP 252/ DEF 40/SPDEF 216
Careful
~Cure
~Payback
~Rest
~Sleep Talk

--I love this thing already. So far if I get 2 Curses up he's very hard to even scratch. However a lot of the Pokemon he took down was with Critical Hits(shitty programing for Shoddy) those Pokemon were doing at their best...maybe 20-25% to him. I still need to get used to how many turns of sleep Rest is ^^;; and he also provides Sandstorm.

Rotom-H@Leftovers
HP 252/DEF 168/SPE 88
Bold
~Pain Split
~Shadow Ball
~Will-O-Wisp
~Thunderbolt

--Blocks Rapid Spinners and also cripples Physical Attackers. Basically replaced Dusknoir. My only concern is...idk what to do if I want to use this team on WiFi...since Rotom-H is an illegal Pokemon :/

Oh and I took out Flygon, Blissey, Kingdra, and Dusknoir.

 

[F-22]

Looks much, much better! If you're playing Wi-Fi, yeah you're stuck with Dusknoir, but there's nothing you can do about it, it's fail on Nintendo's part...

 

[Our Wasted Years]

Alright that sounds good I guess.

Hm I seem to be having problems with well mostly predicting. I might need to test for a few more days to get the hang of the stall metagame.

But so far my biggest bumps in the road are Jirachi, Swampert(if I don't put Toxic on this thing it will go wild), other Tyranitar, and Forretress just dies...it's too frail...or maybe I'm just bad.

 

[F-22]

Yeah, stall takes a LOT of prediction. Especially if you're up against a faster mixed sweeper and offensive teams. Lucky for you and every other stall player out there, Salamence looks to get the death sentence in OU.

Forrey is quite bulky in my experience...remember that it is not meant to be a wall. Just throw it out on the field when you need it, but it's not meant to take hits repeatedly like, say, Gyarados.

Which kind of Jirachi? It's versatile, but Gyarados takes physical sets all day and Tar can set up on the CM set with little difficulty. If it has Sub, it will either lack Wish or a move for coverage so you shouldn't have too much trouble. Few people run mixed sets or Thunderpunch.

But really, you should break into your team because it looks fine as is and you just need to play smarter, not harder. If you like, you can run Roar over DD on Gyarados and not only rack up entry hazards but erase boosts as well. If you haven't had trouble with hyper offense teams, then those other threats you listed should be a piece of cake.

 

[Johto Trainer]

My current team has the same Forretress set your team has, but I barely ever use Payback unless there is a ghost. I usually just rapid spin then set up as much Spikes and Toxic Spikes layers as possible. It really helps ^^

 

[Our Wasted Years]

Yeah, stall takes a LOT of prediction. Especially if you're up against a faster mixed sweeper and offensive teams. Lucky for you and every other stall player out there, Salamence looks to get the death sentence in OU.

I actually want Mence to stay :| I don't plan on always running a stall team...

Forrey is quite bulky in my experience...remember that it is not meant to be a wall. Just throw it out on the field when you need it, but it's not meant to take hits repeatedly like, say, Gyarados.

I always try to do it at the beginning of the battle...but if I can't throw it in at the beginning then it doesn't make sense to set up hazards late-game.

Which kind of Jirachi? It's versatile, but Gyarados takes physical sets all day and Tar can set up on the CM set with little difficulty. If it has Sub, it will either lack Wish or a move for coverage so you shouldn't have too much trouble. Few people run mixed sets or Thunderpunch.

T-Punch/Tbolt=Gyaraods and Vaporeon are dead
Iron Head=Ttar is dead

:| both physical and special Rachi ruins my team. Rotom-h scares it away because of the possible Overheat but that's it. I can't touch it unless Gyaraods get's like +3.

But really, you should break into your team because it looks fine as is and you just need to play smarter, not harder. If you like, you can run Roar over DD on Gyarados and not only rack up entry hazards but erase boosts as well. If you haven't had trouble with hyper offense teams, then those other threats you listed should be a piece of cake.

Ah I'll try that, thanks

 

[F-22]

Oh, I want Mence to stay as well, but it being gone is a boon to any stall team, which is why it will likely be banned. /wayofftrack

You might as well run a different lead that works better with Forrey, as Bronzong tends to attract the same switch-ins that Forrey does. Aero is a particularly good bet since if they run a Jirachi or other Steel lead, Forrey has some free turns to set up entry hazards. You can also EQ Ape and other potential fire users.

You didn't read what I said though. The most common variant of Jirachi is the physical attacker, which Gyarados deals with quite nicely. Thunderpunch is uncommon, according to the May 2010 Shoddy stats only 11% of all Jirachi run it and trust me when I say that will convert to an extremely low probability on the battlefield. And that's assuming said Jirachi is not scarfed, in which case you can simply outpredict it as it takes hefty chunks from rocks and spikes. The second most common variant is the CM one, which Tar deals with almost singlehandedly. I myself was shocked when I saw that Flash Cannon didn't even make it to the stats. Sure you have to predict which variant it is, but that's what you have to do with most things.

If you're really paranoid, you can stick EQ on something, idk what. But the thing is that you want stall things out and have them rack up entry hazard damage; you don't need to kill a threat outright as soon as you see it.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

Idk if I like this. I lost 10 matches in a row. It just frustrates me...I lose Rotom, Gyarados sweeps me. Ttar can do things but if Jirachi or Scizor comes in I'm fucked. So basically even if I set up I die because I can't even deal with Gengar because Focus Blast does a ton...and critical hits are way too common on Shoddy. Maybe semi-stall is better for me...if Gyara gets fast...good...he has shit coverage...if I'm too slow I can't really stall the fast, hard hitters. I need a fast guy that hits hard that can clean up late-game...

 

[F-22]

You could try a different approach then. What I like to do sometimes is to have an offensive team that focuses on setting up rocks and spikes and having the entry hazards rack up and then having an easier time killing things. It's not quite semi-stall, but may be more up your alley. You'll be surprised to see how much you can accomplish with just a layer of spikes along with rocks.

It is hard to play stall, after all, which is why I went back to bulky offense.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

Well I've tried this and it works a little better:
Jirachi@Leftovers
HP 80/ATK 252/SPE 176
Jolly
~Grass Knot
~Iron Head
~Stealth Rock
~Thunder-Wave

Replaced Bronzong. I can now paralyze things, especially if Heatran or Ape want to come in. Also since Rachi is usually a TrickScarf lead they MIGHT bring in a Scarf user of their own, and that's even better. Iron Head is for STAB and not letting those 252 ATK EVs going to waste. I picked Grass Knot mainly for Swampert..but if I hit a Starmie it lives(after SR) so can someone help me figure out EVs to at least do a lot of damage to Pert/Suicune/Starmie/Vaporeon. :/

Suicune@Leftovers
HP 252/DEF 252/SPE 4
Bold
~Rest
~Roar
~Sleep Talk
~Surf

Replaced Gyarados. I'm not sure on him yet but Suicune always worked well with me so I don't care. I can pHaze things now, and not having to worry about needing to Rapid Spin SR away just for one Pokemon is good.