Stealth Rock/Spikes and more, questions from me.

[Vayre]

A few questions about these:

1. What is the difference between spikes and stealth rock.
2. Can they both be put down at the same time by me?

And some other things.

3. I read in the Standard Battle Rules thread that Wobbufet and Wynaut are banned because of their ability to use Mirror Coat and Counter, does this mean that these moves are banned on any pokemon in standard rules battles, and if so what is it about them that is hated so much?

 

[ayotui]

1) spikes is a ground move so flying types are imune to it, while stealth rock is a rock move so flying types are weak to it. there are some other differences, but thats the only major one.
2)yes, both stealth rock and spikes can be up at the same time

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Next time, use the Simple Questions thread.

As for your last question, no, it is not their ability to use those moves that is the cause for their ban in standard tiers. It is their ability itself, Shadow Tag, which prevents the opponent from switching out. Thus, they cannot truly be 'countered,' and end up more often than not being considered 'unfair.' That's the best of my knowledge on the subject.

 

[PlatinumDude]

To further add:
-3 layers of Spikes can be laid down.
1 layer: 12.5% of the Pokemon's HP is chipped off
2 layers: 18.75% of the Pokemon's HP is chipped off
3 layers: 25% of the Pokemon's HP is chipped off
-Spikes won't work on Fliers/Levitators.
-The amount of damage Stealth Rock does to the Pokemon depends on how weak to Rock attacks the Pokemon is.

 

[Spiny]

Heres an exhample of Stealth Rock Damage:

x4 Weakness = 1/2 health taken
x2 Weakness = 1/3 health taken
x1 Weakness = 1/4 health taken
x2 Resistance = 1/5 health taken
x4 Resistance = 1/6 health taken

 

[coolking503]

off smogon:

One may ask why Wobbuffet is Uber; its stats, besides Hit Points are very low, and its movepool consists of a meager seven moves (eight counting the promotional Tickle). However, it is known as the ultimate set up Pokémon, and it is classified as an Uber purely because it has a trait - Shadow Tag - that traps all Pokémon that are not holding a Shed Shell or have the move U-turn or Baton Pass. Wobbuffet's titanic HP lets him use his moves - Counter, Mirror Coat, and most importantly, Encore - to great success. His ability to set up sweepers such as Rayquaza and Arceus with a deadly combination of Encore and Shadow Tag is definitely not something that players should overlook. In Advance, 386 play, or the 3rd generation as many call it, two Wobbuffet facing each other would cause an extremely long and mind-bendingly boring stallwar due to their mutual inability to switch out, thus causing them to try and slap around each other for no damage until they Struggle, which will never finish thanks to the recovery they receive from the item Leftovers. However, this problem has been fixed in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. Two Pokémon with Shadow Tag will be able to escape out of each other, and thus preventing this dreadfully boring battle of willpower. This, however, is not a reason why Wobbuffet is not Uber, as it can trap anything else and force either a KO or a free turn with Encore. If Wobbuffet Encored a damaging attack, the opposition would be promptly destroyed, and if it Encored a setup move, Wobbuffet's user would almost be guaranteed a free turn to switch to another Pokémon and set up. The same goes for Wynaut, however, its stats are completely outclassed by its evolution, Wobbuffet, but it still has Shadow Tag, pushing it into the Ubers territory (it not recommended that you use Wynaut, though).

 

[KidBeano]

Heres an exhample of Stealth Rock Damage:

x4 Weakness = 1/2 health taken
x2 Weakness = 1/3 health taken
x1 Weakness = 1/4 health taken
x2 Resistance = 1/5 health taken
x4 Resistance = 1/6 health taken

Actually x2 Weakness is 1/4 health, x1 weakness = 1/8, x2 Resistance = 1/16 and x4 resistance = 1/32

In %:

x4 Weakness = 50%
x2 Weakness = 25%
x1 Weakness = 12.5%
x2 Resistance = 6.25%
x4 Resistance = 3.125%

 

[Spiny]

Actually x2 Weakness is 1/4 health, x1 weakness = 1/8, x2 Resistance = 1/16 and x4 resistance = 1/32

In %:

x4 Weakness = 50%
x2 Weakness = 25%
x1 Weakness = 12.5%
x2 Resistance = 6.25%
x4 Resistance = 3.125%

Whoops. Thanks for the correction :look:

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

As coolking said, in terms of moves, it is Encore that really pushes Wobbuffet into Ubers territory. Otherwise, it would be easy to just set up on any incoming Wobbuffet. However, setup gives your opponent a free turn to switch in a counter and set up themselves. There is no strategically viable move against a Wobbuffet other than an unboosted OHKO, which Wobbuffet's user can easily avoid.

 

[Regiruler]

As coolking said, in terms of moves, it is Encore that really pushes Wobbuffet into Ubers territory. Otherwise, it would be easy to just set up on any incoming Wobbuffet. However, setup gives your opponent a free turn to switch in a counter and set up themselves. There is no strategically viable move against a Wobbuffet other than an unboosted OHKO, which Wobbuffet's user can easily avoid.

The thing is quite useless in double battles, however. Another good counter is multi-hit moves, due to the fact that counter/mirror coat only counts the last hit.

EDIT: I just realized that whirlwind/roar also works.

 

[coolking503]

Too bad you can't switch out thatnks to shadow tag

 

[Troggy]

Too bad you can't switch out thatnks to shadow tag

Can you kill it with CB Scizor U-Turn? I don't play Ubers but that's one attack I could think of that may OHKO a Wobbuffet. If they switch to avoid it, at least you can bring in your counter instead of being trapped.

 

[evkl]

The problem is that they'd never switch into that matchup.

 

[Troggy]

The problem is that they'd never switch into that matchup.

Yeah. I don't even play Ubers just throwing that out there