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Supreme Court allows daggers in school

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Mozz

Golden Wang of Justice
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OTTAWA (Reuters) - Multiculturalism and religious freedom trumped safety concerns in a Canadian Supreme Court decision on Thursday that will allow orthodox Sikh students to carry traditional daggers to school.
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In its decision, the court noted that Sikh orthodoxy requires the wearing of the daggers, known as kirpans, even though they are banned from airplanes and some courtrooms.

"Religious tolerance is a very important value of Canadian society," Justice Louise Charron wrote in reasons for the decision after a court case that involved 12-year-old Gurbaj Singh Multani, who was prevented from carrying his kirpan at a Montreal school.

"If some students consider it unfair that Gurbaj Singh may wear his kirpan to school while they are not allowed to have knives in their possession, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instill in their students this value that is ... at the very foundation of our democracy."
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060302...L4F;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--
 
This is certainly different.

As long as the dagger remains a symbol, it's not really that different from Christians wearing crosses or Jews wearing Yamakas (sp?). It's not my religion and as long as it's not meant to be used as a weapon, it's not a problem with me.
 
My religion says I need to always carry a gun. But it's not a weapon, just a symbol of devotion, or whatever.

Such PC garbage.
 
As long as your shooting anyone it is a symbol. Once you shove it barrel first in someone's face, it's a weapon. Like I said, it's not my religion and I'm not one to judge.

I was wondering, are these daggers even sharpened. They might be dulled.
 
So I can create a religion that worships machine guns, and you'd be totally cool with that, because it's not a "weapon"? At what point do you think, hm... maybe I should worry about the safety of the kids over the "right" for an idiot to carry a knife?
 
Sweet. I have a new religion.

But this is going too far. Head scarves are one thing. Allowing a weapon in school for whatever reason is just plain idiotic. Never thought I'd MISS the zero tolerance policy.
 
*Yawns*

Wake me up when you guys are done overreacting.

Note that the SC, to my knowledge, only said he had to be allowed to wear it. They said nothing on the school putting safety restrictions on the damn thing (such as having the weapon secured in its sheat in such a way that it'd take about half an hour of obvious work to draw it out).

As long as the schools are free to demand safety restrictions, I see no problem with the guy being allowed to have his knife with him.
 
*Yawns*

Wake me up when you gain some common sense.
 
Wake me up when you actually live in Canada and thus have a better idea of the kind of social climate we're talking about.
 
In a practical sense, your machine gun would probably be safer, Mozz, as you could demand that it would be unloaded.

And as for what Dami said, until somebody actually uses these things to hurt someone, is it worth regulating? I'm pretty sure a seriously devout Sikh isn't going to be waving around a seriously holy object all the time.
 
Bingo. And if you put that sort of restriction (ie, making it impossible to quickly draw them) on it, it ensures that no one's going to steal the knife and use it, unless they're REALLY determined to get a knife.

At which point it's considerably easier to just stuff one in your backpack in the morning. Not like we have metal detectors or anything.
 
As I said, the blade could be dulled so it can't cut through anything.
 
I don't think the Sikh would draw it, I think some punk would hike it from him and then oh, I don't know, hurt someone.
 
And as I told you already, if a punk want to get a knife in school, all they have to do is stuff it in their backpack. There's no metal detector or anything to stop them.

Stealing it from Sikh boy is way more trouble than it's worth. Especially if it's secured. I mean, just stealing it would cause a commotion already.
 
Australiam said:
I don't think the Sikh would draw it, I think some punk would hike it from him and then oh, I don't know, hurt someone.
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And if there's one thing we've learned, it's that there's always some asshole who misuses a religious law, and that's when all shit breaks loose.

Listen, I'm all for the defending of people's religious rights. Having a separate area for Muslim students to go off and pray...good job. Allowing head scarves...great. Allowing crosses, stars of David, etc....FANTASTIC. Allowing a knife, even a ceremonial knife, is just a gateway to mayhem. It only takes ONE incident for someone to be killed. Frankly, I'd MUCH rather just worry about the HIDDEN knives than have to ALSO worry about the ones out in the open.
 
And as I said, if the school can demand that the weapon be secured (and as far as I know there's nothing in the ruling against this), then the weapon is not worth worrying about.

You and Mozz are blowing this whole thing way out of proportion.

Would I advocate allowing people to carry loaded unsafe weapons in school? No. But as long as the school can put on restrictions that prevents the weapon from bveing easily drawn, the weapon is a non-issue.

Hell, even un-secured, the weapon is not very different from X-acto. Which were all over the art classes back when I was in high school.
 
It's a lot easier for a kid to buy a real knife and bring it to school, if he really wants to cause mayhem. The Sikh kid, upon someone reaching for his holy object, is probaby going to kick somebody's ass.

I have a replica 5-foot sword and a real Swiss bayonet in my room. Would I bring them to school? Nah. Could I? The bayonet, yeah, it's a foot long.
 
Damian Silverblade said:
You and Mozz are blowing this whole thing way out of proportion.
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I don't think we are. I think I'm being pessimistic at worst. Realistic at best. I'd LOVE to believe that nothing bad would come out of this. BELIEVE ME, I would. But I saw too much idiocy at my high school (and the aftermath of a knife fight), to think that high schoolers are capable of NOT getting killed because of this. It's not a definite thing, of course. It may NEVER happen. But I'd prefer to make the odds of it as close to 0 as I possible can.

But as long as the school can put on restrictions that prevents the weapon from bveing easily drawn, the weapon is a non-issue.
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And what if one of these kids who carries it gets picked on in school? What if they get pissed off? What if they take the time to carefully draw the weapon, sneak up behind their tormentor, and stab? The fact that they're so openly showing their religion is going to make them a target (unless Canadian students are a million times more mature than Americans).

Hell, even un-secured, the weapon is not very different from X-acto. Which were all over the art classes back when I was in high school.
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We had them, too. But the teachers almost NEVER let students use them. And when they did, it was usually while keeping a sharp eye on them. They weren't allowed to just carry them around the school. Anyone who was caught doing that...suspension immediately. Anyone using one in an even SLIGHTLY inappropriate manner...suspension.

Evkl said:
I have a replica 5-foot sword and a real Swiss bayonet in my room. Would I bring them to school? Nah. Could I? The bayonet, yeah, it's a foot long.
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Yeah, anyone COULD do it. But let's leave it at could, and not make it WILL.
 
Well, again - that's the whole thing of different cultures. Students in art classes at the high school I attended were trusted to use X-acto in most classes circumstances, and with the class setup that the teacher just couldn't be monitoring everyone at once.

*shrugs*. As I said, what apply in the US may not be the same in other countries. Trying to treat every country as if the cultural situation was the same as in the US just won't work.
 
There you go.

CBC News just had an in-depth segment on it (more in-depth than the sensationalist article Mozz quoted), and they confirmed what I've been saying - the schools are free to restrict the kirpan, as long as they're alloed to have it with them. IE, preventing it from being drawn, etc.

As such, there is no reason to make a fuss over it.
 
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