Team Building Help

[aliveatnight]

I've been messing around with some Pokemon trying to build a team. I will note that this is just for the Battle Spot. So far, here's what I have:

Gardevoir
Item: Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace or Telepathy (depending on the rest of the team)
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD (I'm thinking of boosting her spD instead of speed)
Moves: Psyshock / Moonblast / Thunderbolt (I also had Energy Ball here) / Focus Blast (I'm also considering switching something with Calm Mind)

Hitmonchan
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 A / 4 SpD
Moves: Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Thunder Punch / Drain Punch

Mightyena
Item: Muscle Band
Ability: Moxie
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 A / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Moves: Crunch / Sucker Punch / Play Rough / Poison Fang (thinking of switching Poison Fang with Fire Fang)

Ninetales
Item: Wise Glasses (used to have Heat Rock)
Ability: Drought
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Moves: Protect / Heat Wave / Solar Beam / Extrasensory
I should mention that she used to run with my Mega Houndoom, so the Sunny Day would benefit them both. Perhaps I'll use him again.

Update:
I was trying out some other Pokemon, and here's the last 2 (as of right now):

Floatzel
Item: Big Root
Ability: Water Veil
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 A / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Moves: Aqua Ring / Aqua Jet / Ice Fang / Crunch

Nidoking
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Poison Point
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 A / 4 Spe
Moves: Poison Jab / Earthquake / Shadow Claw / Brick Break
The biggest issue I've found with him is that he can only utilize Earthquake with Ninetales and Gardevoir (if I give her telepathy and don't Mega Evolve her). Any suggestions on what I can do to fix this?

My question is this: Is there anything I can do to better these Pokemon, and who would be good Pokemon for the last 2 spots? I'm still trying to get the hang of building a good team, so any help would be really appreciated!

 

[sharkshocker]

You might want to work in a Protect on another Pokemon on the team, so you can protect yourself not only from your own Earthquake but also the opponent. I'm leaning towards having it as Gardevoir's 4th move, mostly because Focus Blast missing is such a downer and that it doesn't add a lot of coverage to her movepool.

The team covers each other's weakness pretty well and you have good coverage, but it still feels a bit lacking in synergy. Ninetales kinda stands on her own and can mess up Floatzel if they're out together. Floatzel's defenses are on the low side which makes it difficult to get enough mileage out of Aqua Ring and the extra recovery you get from Big Root (6.25% -> 8.125%) doesn't quite justify having it as an item. Nidoking is a nice addition as it has a wide movepool but I'm iffy on having it built with bulk given how popular Earthquake can be in Doubles.

For now I'd say give either Hitmonchan or Nidoking a Choice Scarf and have have Sheer Force instead of Poison Point. They'll be able to hit hard and answer threats with their unexpected speed. A Choice Band on Floatzel can work as well, as it has the raw speed to attack first and wreak havoc. It doesn't have the widest movepool but it learns Ice Punch as a tutor move on ORAS so you can replace Ice Fang with that.

It might just be personal taste but I also suggest having a defensive Pokemon to slow down the opponent's momentum. You have Pokemon that share a weakness to types that can hit both opponents (Dazzling Gleam for Hitmonchan/Mightyena and Earthquake for Ninetales/Nidoking) so it might help to have something to help against those.

What do you usually lead with, and how do you usually play the team? It might help us get a better feel on how to work on the team once you lay out your thought process behind it. Hope this helps for now, good luck!

 

[aliveatnight]

Thank you for the help!

I think running Protect on Gardevoir is a good choice, I was actually considering that myself! I tested out Choice Band on Floatzel and switched Aqua Ring with Aqua Jet. I'd give the Choice Scarf to Hitmonchan, but I use him for coverage and need all his moves. I'm going to test it with Nidoking (I adjusted his EVs to 252 A / 252 Spe / 4 HP), and the only problem I see is if he uses Earthquake, I'm stuck in it and no one is able to avoid it constantly (unless I give Gardevoir Telepathy and don't Mega Evolve it). What if I gave the Choice Scarf to Mightyena? His best and most used move is Sucker Punch, and the Life Orb is pretty much guaranteeing his ko.

I always have Hitmonchan out when I open. His moves allow me to hit a large array of Pokemon, and the other opener will depend on what I'm going against, although it seems to be Ninetales quite often.
The biggest issue I've come across with the team so far is Stealth Rocks. I might have to look into switching someone with a Pokemon who can use Rapid Spin to clear it out. What are your thoughts on that?

If you need to know anything else, please feel free to ask!

 

[sharkshocker]

Yeah it's a decision regarding who to give the Choice Scarf to...though with Sheer Force Nidoking does not receive the recoil from Life Orb while keeping the damage boost. You have to play around a bit leading with a scarfed Hitmonchan but it does help give you the first attack and punch through the opponent before they can do anything. I usually don't bring out my scarfed Pokemon as a lead since you can't tell what the opponent will start with, though you can try that since Hitmonchan offers good coverage and having it out early means you can switch it out much sooner, so you can use it again when necessary.

Hmm well if you give the Choice Scarf to Mightyena then it defeats the purpose of speeding up if you combine it with Sucker Punch, plus once the opponent figures out that you're locked into one move they'll play around it, i.e. setting up Stealth Rock Going to your concern about Stealth Rock, I personally don't run into it that often but I think you can play against it by being aggressive. Stealth Rock only pays off if you do a lot of switching, but on a 2-on-2 battle with 4 Pokemon each you can limit its effectiveness by minimizing your switches and using that turn the opponent lays down rocks to push the momentum in your favor. Though if you do find yourself having trouble against it I'd suggest using a Pokemon with Taunt to shut it down, as well as counter other utility Pokemon.

An idea would be to bring in a Pokemon with Tailwind as a utility Pokemon to help solve any speed issues you might have. Ninetales still does feel like the odd Pokemon out so you can try replacing her, plus she might end up backfiring against you if you play against a sun-based team.

 

[Amoebo]

I've been messing around with some Pokemon trying to build a team. I will note that this is just for the Battle Spot. So far, here's what I have:

Gardevoir
Item: Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace or Telepathy (depending on the rest of the team)
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD (I'm thinking of boosting her spD instead of speed)
Moves: Psyshock / Moonblast / Thunderbolt (I also had Energy Ball here) / Focus Blast (I'm also considering switching something with Calm Mind)

Hitmonchan
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 A / 4 SpD
Moves: Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Thunder Punch / Drain Punch

Mightyena
Item: Muscle Band
Ability: Moxie
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 A / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Moves: Crunch / Sucker Punch / Play Rough / Poison Fang (thinking of switching Poison Fang with Fire Fang)

Ninetales
Item: Wise Glasses (used to have Heat Rock)
Ability: Drought
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Moves: Protect / Heat Wave / Solar Beam / Extrasensory
I should mention that she used to run with my Mega Houndoom, so the Sunny Day would benefit them both. Perhaps I'll use him again.

Update:
I was trying out some other Pokemon, and here's the last 2 (as of right now):

Floatzel
Item: Big Root
Ability: Water Veil
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 A / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Moves: Aqua Ring / Aqua Jet / Ice Fang / Crunch

Nidoking
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Poison Point
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 A / 4 Spe
Moves: Poison Jab / Earthquake / Shadow Claw / Brick Break
The biggest issue I've found with him is that he can only utilize Earthquake with Ninetales and Gardevoir (if I give her telepathy and don't Mega Evolve her). Any suggestions on what I can do to fix this?

My question is this: Is there anything I can do to better these Pokemon, and who would be good Pokemon for the last 2 spots? I'm still trying to get the hang of building a good team, so any help would be really appreciated!

Your team also lacks the ability to take huge hits from anything not a dragon. Mandibuzz, Scrafty, and Umbreon could replace Mightyena and Conkeldurr could work over Hitmonchan. Floatzel also does what Mightyena does except better, so you could switch those two out. Also, a team of AV T-Tar and Heatran can eat through your team easily.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Yeah it's a decision regarding who to give the Choice Scarf to...though with Sheer Force Nidoking does not receive the recoil from Life Orb while keeping the damage boost. You have to play around a bit leading with a scarfed Hitmonchan but it does help give you the first attack and punch through the opponent before they can do anything. I usually don't bring out my scarfed Pokemon as a lead since you can't tell what the opponent will start with, though you can try that since Hitmonchan offers good coverage and having it out early means you can switch it out much sooner, so you can use it again when necessary.

Hmm well if you give the Choice Scarf to Mightyena then it defeats the purpose of speeding up if you combine it with Sucker Punch, plus once the opponent figures out that you're locked into one move they'll play around it, i.e. setting up Stealth Rock Going to your concern about Stealth Rock, I personally don't run into it that often but I think you can play against it by being aggressive. Stealth Rock only pays off if you do a lot of switching, but on a 2-on-2 battle with 4 Pokemon each you can limit its effectiveness by minimizing your switches and using that turn the opponent lays down rocks to push the momentum in your favor. Though if you do find yourself having trouble against it I'd suggest using a Pokemon with Taunt to shut it down, as well as counter other utility Pokemon.

An idea would be to bring in a Pokemon with Tailwind as a utility Pokemon to help solve any speed issues you might have. Ninetales still does feel like the odd Pokemon out so you can try replacing her, plus she might end up backfiring against you if you play against a sun-based team.

Your point about Life Orb is in theory true but only one of his Nidoking's moves is SF boosted, so he'll be weaker than expected and he'll take LO recoil when not using Poison Jab.

You really oughta breed a Timid SF Nidoking and give him Earth Power, Sudge Wave, and some combination of Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Fire Blast, and Focus Blast so you can abuse Nidoking's niche as a strong special attacker

 

[Amoebo]

Yeah it's a decision regarding who to give the Choice Scarf to...though with Sheer Force Nidoking does not receive the recoil from Life Orb while keeping the damage boost. You have to play around a bit leading with a scarfed Hitmonchan but it does help give you the first attack and punch through the opponent before they can do anything. I usually don't bring out my scarfed Pokemon as a lead since you can't tell what the opponent will start with, though you can try that since Hitmonchan offers good coverage and having it out early means you can switch it out much sooner, so you can use it again when necessary.

Hmm well if you give the Choice Scarf to Mightyena then it defeats the purpose of speeding up if you combine it with Sucker Punch, plus once the opponent figures out that you're locked into one move they'll play around it, i.e. setting up Stealth Rock Going to your concern about Stealth Rock, I personally don't run into it that often but I think you can play against it by being aggressive. Stealth Rock only pays off if you do a lot of switching, but on a 2-on-2 battle with 4 Pokemon each you can limit its effectiveness by minimizing your switches and using that turn the opponent lays down rocks to push the momentum in your favor. Though if you do find yourself having trouble against it I'd suggest using a Pokemon with Taunt to shut it down, as well as counter other utility Pokemon.

An idea would be to bring in a Pokemon with Tailwind as a utility Pokemon to help solve any speed issues you might have. Ninetales still does feel like the odd Pokemon out so you can try replacing her, plus she might end up backfiring against you if you play against a sun-based team.

Your point about Life Orb is in theory true but only one of his Nidoking's moves is SF boosted, so he'll be weaker than expected and he'll take LO recoil when not using Poison Jab.

You really oughta breed a Timid SF Nidoking and give him Earth Power, Sudge Wave, and some combination of Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Fire Blast, and Focus Blast so you can abuse Nidoking's niche as a strong special attacker

How much does the damage get boosted by anyways? 2X? 3X?

 

[aliveatnight]

Thanks! I'll try out all your suggestions!
What do you think of replacing Ninetales with Scizor? He has the Defense (which is something my team was lacking), and if I run him with Swords Dane / Baton Pass / Roost / Bullet Punch with 252 HP / 252 D / 4 A with an Impish nature (perhaps Leftovers for his item?) with Technician. He'd be a good setup to switch in Hitmonchan, Floatzel or Mightyena. Thoughts?

 

[Amoebo]

Thanks! I'll try out all your suggestions!
What do you think of replacing Ninetales with Scizor? He has the Defense (which is something my team was lacking), and if I run him with Swords Dane / Baton Pass / Roost / Bullet Punch with 252 HP / 252 D / 4 A with an Impish nature (perhaps Leftovers for his item?) with Technician. He'd be a good setup to switch in Hitmonchan, Floatzel or Mightyena. Thoughts?

If your passing to someone you should also have U-turn instead of roost in case of Taunt.

 

[aliveatnight]

Thanks! I'll try out all your suggestions!
What do you think of replacing Ninetales with Scizor? He has the Defense (which is something my team was lacking), and if I run him with Swords Dane / Baton Pass / Roost / Bullet Punch with 252 HP / 252 D / 4 A with an Impish nature (perhaps Leftovers for his item?) with Technician. He'd be a good setup to switch in Hitmonchan, Floatzel or Mightyena. Thoughts?

If your passing to someone you should also have U-turn instead of roost in case of Taunt.

That's a smart idea. Thanks!

Update: After testing Hitmonchan with Choice Scarf, I found it to be too limiting for him. I did find that the Assault Vest works out really well for him, as it keeps him going a bit longer than without.
Scizor is also proving to be a good addition, as Nidoking can use Sludge Wave without harming him, while he can be boosting himself up or preparing a switch.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Yeah it's a decision regarding who to give the Choice Scarf to...though with Sheer Force Nidoking does not receive the recoil from Life Orb while keeping the damage boost. You have to play around a bit leading with a scarfed Hitmonchan but it does help give you the first attack and punch through the opponent before they can do anything. I usually don't bring out my scarfed Pokemon as a lead since you can't tell what the opponent will start with, though you can try that since Hitmonchan offers good coverage and having it out early means you can switch it out much sooner, so you can use it again when necessary.

Hmm well if you give the Choice Scarf to Mightyena then it defeats the purpose of speeding up if you combine it with Sucker Punch, plus once the opponent figures out that you're locked into one move they'll play around it, i.e. setting up Stealth Rock Going to your concern about Stealth Rock, I personally don't run into it that often but I think you can play against it by being aggressive. Stealth Rock only pays off if you do a lot of switching, but on a 2-on-2 battle with 4 Pokemon each you can limit its effectiveness by minimizing your switches and using that turn the opponent lays down rocks to push the momentum in your favor. Though if you do find yourself having trouble against it I'd suggest using a Pokemon with Taunt to shut it down, as well as counter other utility Pokemon.

An idea would be to bring in a Pokemon with Tailwind as a utility Pokemon to help solve any speed issues you might have. Ninetales still does feel like the odd Pokemon out so you can try replacing her, plus she might end up backfiring against you if you play against a sun-based team.

Your point about Life Orb is in theory true but only one of his Nidoking's moves is SF boosted, so he'll be weaker than expected and he'll take LO recoil when not using Poison Jab.

You really oughta breed a Timid SF Nidoking and give him Earth Power, Sudge Wave, and some combination of Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Fire Blast, and Focus Blast so you can abuse Nidoking's niche as a strong special attacker

How much does the damage get boosted by anyways? 2X? 3X?

Sheer Force is 1.3x. So, for Earthquake, it's 100 x 1.3 (LO) x 1.5 (STAB) = 195. For Earth Power, it's 90 * 1.3 (LO) * 1.3 (SF) * 1.5 (STAB) = 228. Of course, Nidoking's Attack is higher than it's SpA, but even if we factor that in, we get 102 * 195 = 19890. 228 * 85 = 19380, which is only slightly weaker. However, if we use Sludge Wave as the main STAB move, we get 95 * 1.3 * 1.3 * 1.5 * 85 = 20470. Poison Jab gets boosted by SF, and since it's off the higher Physical Atk it gets a damage rating of 20685, but it's not a spread move, so it typically won't be your spam move of choice whereas EP and SW are both spread. On top of all that, your coverage moves become significantly stronger.

Physical:
Brick Break: 9945
Shadow Claw: 9282
Special:
Ice Beam/Thunderbolt: 12929
Fire Blast: 15802 (13431 with accuracy)
Focus Blast: 17238 (12067 accounting for accuracy)

On top of all that, you won't take LO recoil for any of the special moves, but you will for 3/4 of the physical ones.

 

[aliveatnight]

Yeah it's a decision regarding who to give the Choice Scarf to...though with Sheer Force Nidoking does not receive the recoil from Life Orb while keeping the damage boost. You have to play around a bit leading with a scarfed Hitmonchan but it does help give you the first attack and punch through the opponent before they can do anything. I usually don't bring out my scarfed Pokemon as a lead since you can't tell what the opponent will start with, though you can try that since Hitmonchan offers good coverage and having it out early means you can switch it out much sooner, so you can use it again when necessary.

Hmm well if you give the Choice Scarf to Mightyena then it defeats the purpose of speeding up if you combine it with Sucker Punch, plus once the opponent figures out that you're locked into one move they'll play around it, i.e. setting up Stealth Rock Going to your concern about Stealth Rock, I personally don't run into it that often but I think you can play against it by being aggressive. Stealth Rock only pays off if you do a lot of switching, but on a 2-on-2 battle with 4 Pokemon each you can limit its effectiveness by minimizing your switches and using that turn the opponent lays down rocks to push the momentum in your favor. Though if you do find yourself having trouble against it I'd suggest using a Pokemon with Taunt to shut it down, as well as counter other utility Pokemon.

An idea would be to bring in a Pokemon with Tailwind as a utility Pokemon to help solve any speed issues you might have. Ninetales still does feel like the odd Pokemon out so you can try replacing her, plus she might end up backfiring against you if you play against a sun-based team.

Your point about Life Orb is in theory true but only one of his Nidoking's moves is SF boosted, so he'll be weaker than expected and he'll take LO recoil when not using Poison Jab.

You really oughta breed a Timid SF Nidoking and give him Earth Power, Sudge Wave, and some combination of Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Fire Blast, and Focus Blast so you can abuse Nidoking's niche as a strong special attacker

How much does the damage get boosted by anyways? 2X? 3X?

Sheer Force is 1.3x. So, for Earthquake, it's 100 x 1.3 (LO) x 1.5 (STAB) = 195. For Earth Power, it's 90 * 1.3 (LO) * 1.3 (SF) * 1.5 (STAB) = 228. Of course, Nidoking's Attack is higher than it's SpA, but even if we factor that in, we get 102 * 195 = 19890. 228 * 85 = 19380, which is only slightly weaker. However, if we use Sludge Wave as the main STAB move, we get 95 * 1.3 * 1.3 * 1.5 * 85 = 20470. Poison Jab gets boosted by SF, and since it's off the higher Physical Atk it gets a damage rating of 20685, but it's not a spread move, so it typically won't be your spam move of choice whereas EP and SW are both spread. On top of all that, your coverage moves become significantly stronger.

Physical:
Brick Break: 9945
Shadow Claw: 9282
Special:
Ice Beam/Thunderbolt: 12929
Fire Blast: 15802 (13431 with accuracy)
Focus Blast: 17238 (12067 accounting for accuracy)

On top of all that, you won't take LO recoil for any of the special moves, but you will for 3/4 of the physical ones.

I must thank you. Ever since trying out this Nidoking, he's really gone and proven himself! I never would have thought to try him out specially, and I didn't know about the Life Orb part either.
So thanks!