Teens support criminalizing cyber-bullying, but free speech is an issue

[Every Breaking Wave]

Source

Katie Neu takes her high school courses from home. It's been two years since she walked out of her high school after being cyberbullied so much that she felt forced to leave.

Neu, 16, was threatened over instant messaging programs. Her peers called her names in emails after rumours about her spread around the school. She received messages and emails accusing her of faking a broken arm.

"I had enough of people trying to hurt me and harass me," said Neu from her home in Listowel, Ont. "I'll probably have to do it myself, but I want to see all forms of bullying illegal."

An announcement from the Canadian Teachers' Federation calling for the addition of cyberbullying to the Criminal Code has brought Neu's hopes one step closer to reality.

On July 12 the federation voted unanimously to endorse a policy that says cyberbullying should be a criminal offence.

"We have (harassment through) telephone in the Criminal Code...we have harassing people by letters. We say the Criminal Code is silent on new technology," said Emily Noble, president of the federation.

"The laws in the Criminal Code were all written years ago, let's update it where it's necessary."

But Michael Deturbide, a law professor and associate dean at Dalhousie University in Halifax, said criminalizing cyberbullying could be a difficult process, and it would be difficult to know where to draw the line.

"I'd be very careful about making online bullying a crime," said Deturbide. "The most severe forms of cyberbullying are already captured in the Criminal Code."

Deturbide said it's already illegal to harass anyone to the point where they fear for their safety, or to spread false rumours that can lead to defamatory action.

He said that while cyberbullying is offensive and unpleasant, it raises issues relating to freedom of expression.

"We do have freedom of expression in Canada and that means sometimes you can say unpopular and even nasty things, and there is a line that's crossed," said Deturbide. "That line is already in the Criminal Code and I'm not quite sure why we need a specific law targeting the Internet."

Robert Frenette, 19, started the website BullyingCanada.ca in 2006.

The issues surrounding freedom of speech and bullying are ones that Frenette has heard before.

"As someone who has been bullied for 11-and-a-half years, I'm not sure how you can express yourself through bullying," he said.

"It's something that should have been done a long time ago," said Frenette of the federation's push to including cyberbullying in the Criminal Code. "If you can get charged for bullying physically you should be able to get charged in regards to the form of cyberbullying."

Frenette was cyberbullied by two girls who threatened him in an online chat room. The next day they sat behind him on the school bus and burned the back of his neck with lighters.

"When I brought it up with the school I kept a copy of the chat log where they (threatened me)," said Frenette. "They said there were no charges that could be laid because it was online. If it had happened in person they could have pressed charges. That was one time when I was let down by the justice system."

University of Toronto social work professor Faye Mishna has studied cyberbullying, and says that one in five kids have been bullied online.

Mishna said her first reaction upon hearing the announcement from the federation was that she needed more information.

"I know that they don't believe in criminalizing it alone," said Mishna, who said the sole act of criminalizing cyberbullying would not be effective.

"It's got to be part of the whole package," Mishna said. "The intervention needs to be in prevention, education."

"The policy we passed is mainly all about education," said Noble. "Education of teachers, parents and students of the new cyber-playground."

Mishna said she thinks it's important for kids to learn what freedom of speech is, and what it's not.

"They might think that it's freedom of speech, but it's important for them to learn what their rights are," said Mishna.

 

[Lethal Carnivine]

Well, this is a very good idea. However, it would be veeery hard to track down the offending party. Simply because with usernames, they can say it wasn't theirs, IP(someone else used it), e-mails(not mine) and whatnot. And by the time they find the person, the offended would probably care less about the whole thing.

 

[flyinglilypad]

Frenette was cyberbullied by two girls who threatened him in an online chat room. The next day they sat behind him on the school bus and burned the back of his neck with lighters.

"When I brought it up with the school I kept a copy of the chat log where they (threatened me)," said Frenette. "They said there were no charges that could be laid because it was online. If it had happened in person they could have pressed charges. That was one time when I was let down by the justice system."

That's disgusting. And that was a GUY? What a wimp.

Not only that, but it happened after school. He should go whine to his mommy, not the school. As for the neck burning, he just sat there and took it like a b**ch.

He outta be expelled.

When some guy teased me on the bus, I turned around, punched him, bit him, and destroyed his iPod. But I gotta say, did he run crying to the school and Mommy?

No. Because it's despicable. Criminalizing cyberbullying just makes these kids worse-it makes them weaker and more dependant on the system. A system that isn't reliable and shouldn't be expected to solve everyone's problems anyway.

 

[Dr. Peppa]

That's disgusting. And that was a GUY? What a wimp.

Not only that, but it happened after school. He should go whine to his mommy, not the school. As for the neck burning, he just sat there and took it like a b**ch.

He outta be expelled.

Why should it matter if it was a guy? Maybe he was afraid of standing up for himself because he is a quiet and shy kid. You are doing nothing but blaming the victim here.

It is possible he went to his parents (that's what I would do) and they had him go to the school because the incident happened on the SCHOOL bus. And as for him acting like a "bitch" not all males are comfortable with defending themselves he was probably afraid. And with good reason, these girls sound pretty crazy.

Yes, he should be expelled for being burned by two girls on the school bus and not defending himself.

Pssst... that last part was sarcasm.

 

[Every Breaking Wave]

Not only that, but it happened after school. He should go whine to his mommy, not the school.

You're sadly misinformed; in Canada (where this article is from), schools can discipline a student for their actions anytime during the school year. When I was in high school, some guys got into a fight right after school just off of school property. One guy got a concussion, and both were suspended.

Another incident that comes to mind is when three guys from my school drove down a major road in the city (Cambridge) late one night, shooting paintballs at unsuspecting pedestrians (including some seniors). This happened about eleven o'clock on a Saturday. The result? Suspended.

Students are liable for their actions and so can be disciplined by their schools if they are caught, no matter when these actions occur.

As for the neck burning, he just sat there and took it like a b**ch.

I'm sure he didn't just sit there and take it. He obviously tried to get something done about it (the article says as much) without resulting in violence, since that is of course what the bullies would have been aiming for. Many people (myself included) would much rather not get involved in a fight; I respond in other ways.

Whether it was a guy or a girl, it makes no difference. Bullying is bullying, and cyber-bullying has just as much an effect on people as bullying in the classroom.

He outta be expelled.

First time I've ever heard somebody say that the victim of bullying should be the one who is punished.

When some guy teased me on the bus, I turned around, punched him, bit him, and destroyed his iPod. But I gotta say, did he run crying to the school and Mommy?

Congratulations; you're very lucky. If he had complained, you could well have been charged with assault, mischief, and been tried as a minor under the criminal youth code. You are very fortunate; try ignoring the person next time, or using words instead of violence.

No. Because it's despicable. Criminalizing cyber-bullying just makes these kids worse-it makes them weaker and more dependant on the system. A system that isn't reliable and shouldn't be expected to solve everyone's problems anyway.

As opposed to allowing the bullying to continue? Bullying has long-term emotional health effects on a person. It's been proven numerous times that victims of both bullying and cyber-bullying have lower self-esteem, increased suicidal ideation, and a variety of emotional responses, including being scared, frustrated, angry, and depressed. People are also more likely to try and exact revenge on those who they feel are the cause of their emotional problems. Ever hear of Columbine? Megan Meier? There have been at least three cases where children between 12 and 13 have attempted suicide thanks to cyber-bullying, and at least four teenagers have committed suicide in the United States.

I fail to see how criminalizing cyber-bullying makes a person weak. My Mom is a Child and Youth worker, and so she frequently works with both bullies and the bullied. I wouldn't say it isn't reliable; it's amazing to see the difference in some of the kids afterwards.

 

[Lethal Carnivine]

Frenette was cyberbullied by two girls who threatened him in an online chat room. The next day they sat behind him on the school bus and burned the back of his neck with lighters.

"When I brought it up with the school I kept a copy of the chat log where they (threatened me)," said Frenette. "They said there were no charges that could be laid because it was online. If it had happened in person they could have pressed charges. That was one time when I was let down by the justice system."

That's disgusting. And that was a GUY? What a wimp.

So if it was a girl, she would have been acting in her normal parameters, simply because. I don't know about you, but regardless of sex, getting burned by lighters HURT

Not only that, but it happened after school. He should go whine to his mommy, not the school. As for the neck burning, he just sat there and took it like a b**ch.

So do you want him to go through this every day by not 'whining' to the school. I guess, he might have his face burned next time. But hey

He outta be expelled.

HE DESERVED IT, simply because he did the right thing. Seriously, that is a very warped reality you are in if you honestly think this. But hey, I guess bitched deserve this treatment, which in essence you are saying girls deserve this.

When some guy teased me on the bus, I turned around, punched him, bit him, and destroyed his iPod. But I gotta say, did he run crying to the school and Mommy?

No, like Matkin said, he could have filed charges against the school and then I guess he would be a bitch too. BUt guess who will be the ones sitting behind bars

No. Because it's despicable. Criminalizing cyberbullying just makes these kids worse-it makes them weaker and more dependant on the system. A system that isn't reliable and shouldn't be expected to solve everyone's problems anyway.

 

[flyinglilypad]

You're sadly misinformed;

Not at all. I don't care about Canadian law. I was talking about the way it *should* be.

Why should it matter if it was a guy? Maybe he was afraid of standing up for himself because he is a quiet and shy kid. You are doing nothing but blaming the victim here.

It matters because the typical male is usually much, much larger than females in the human species. They're also typically stronger.

It is possible he went to his parents (that's what I would do) and they had him go to the school because the incident happened on the SCHOOL bus.

In most SCHOOLS events that happen on the SCHOOL bus are taken care of not by the SCHOOL but by the BUS BARN. YES. It may be otherwise in CANANADA LAND though.

Yes, he should be expelled for being burned by two girls on the school bus and not defending himself.

I'm glad you see my logic. The school or his parents coming to his rescue will only make him weaker, and more "quiet and shy" as was mentioned.

First time I've ever heard somebody say that the victim of bullying should be the one who is punished.

And to hear it a second time, read Dr. Peppa's post.

Congratulations; you're very lucky. If he had complained, you could well have been charged with assault, mischief, and been tried as a minor under the criminal youth code. You are very fortunate; try ignoring the person next time, or using words instead of violence.

He would have been laughed out of the school. And as for being tried on criminal charges, I have had to talk to a juvenile officer. And they let it sliiiiiide.

As opposed to allowing the bullying to continue? Bullying has long-term emotional health effects on a person. I don't have any sources on me, but I believe it is a generally accepted fact that people who are bullied are more likely to attempt suicide or exact revenge on those who they feel are the cause of their emotional problems. Ever hear of Columbine? The girl who committed suicide when her former "friend's" Mother set up a fake MySpace page? (Who, incidentally, was charged a few weeks ago).

I agree completely. Clearly, they are already weak and emotionally unstable. But rushing to their aid just weakens them further.

 

[Every Breaking Wave]

In case you missed it, Dr. Peppa was being sarcastic.

Not at all. I don't care about Canadian law. I was talking about the way it *should* be.

So the fact that it's a Canadian article, from a Canadian publication, detailing specific examples of this that have happened in Canada is all irrelevent to you? What's the point in reading it then?

And for the record, Canadian laws are very similar to those in most democratic countries.

It matters because the typical male is usually much, much larger than females in the human species. They're also typically stronger.

And what if the bullied male happens to be short, frail, ill, or suffering from a mental disorder? And even if that isn't the case (which it admittedly isn't most of the time), generally it's discouraged for a guy to fight a girl because there typically is a difference in strength and size.

Are you insinuating that it's okay for one person to beat up another, just because they happen to be larger?

In most SCHOOLS events that happen on the SCHOOL bus are taken care of not by the SCHOOL but by the BUS BARN. YES. It may be otherwise in CANANADA LAND though.

Don't you mean Canada? I'll skip over your feeble attempt to mock my country and simply point out that I've already stated in my previous post that a school can discipline a student for their actions, no matter when or where they happen. That includes on a school bus. And yes, schools are partially liable for what happens on a school bus.

I'm glad you see my logic. The school or his parents coming to his rescue will only make him weaker, and more "quiet and shy" as was mentioned.

And to hear it a second time, read Dr. Peppa's post.

Again, Dr. Peppa was being sarcastic.

He would have been laughed out of the school.

The attitudes of your peers must be very different from the majority of people I have ever witnessed at any school (and I have been in many). I have yet to meet a person who is impressed by a violent attitude. And I have never heard of a person being "laughed at" for seeking repercussions after being violently and unnecessarily attacked. Next thing, you'll be saying that rape victims shouldn't report when they are sexually violated.

And as for being tried on criminal charges, I have had to talk to a juvenile officer. And they let it sliiiiiide.

How fortunate for you; you may not be so lucky the next time.

I agree completely. Clearly, they are already weak and emotionally unstable. But rushing to their aid just weakens them further.

You missed the point completely. One person's support can make all the difference when it comes to being bullied. One person can make the difference between depression and hope, between suicide and life. Rushing to a person's aid weakens them? Generally, the people who commit suicide (or go on rampages) are the ones who never received that support.

I know the difference one person can make. I've both supported someone when they needed it most, and been supported when I had nobody to turn to. Trust me; one person makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Lil Brother]

In most SCHOOLS events that happen on the SCHOOL bus are taken care of not by the SCHOOL but by the BUS BARN. YES. It may be otherwise in CANANADA LAND though.

...no, they aren't? o.o I can tell you several bus-related events I've been a part of that were dealt with by the school administration. I live in the U.S.

He would have been laughed out of the school. And as for being tried on criminal charges, I have had to talk to a juvenile officer. And they let it sliiiiiide.

Wait, why in the world would punching someone, biting them, and destroying their propety be ignored?

 

[flyinglilypad]

In case you missed it, Dr. Peppa was being sarcastic.

Well let's ask Dr. Peppa. Because unless you're a sock puppet you're not speaking for them.

Are you insinuating that it's okay for one person to beat up another, just because they happen to be larger?

No, I'm just saying that it is more unusual for a larger, stronger person to get punked. Typically the frailer, smaller, weaker person gets their butt handed to them.

I'll skip over your feeble attempt to mock my country and simply point out that I've already stated in my previous post that a school can discipline a student for their actions, no matter when or where they happen.

I wasn't mocking your country, at least not in the way you mean, in implying that it is inferior or strange. It's simply a small joke among my class to refer to it as Cananada.

Again, Dr. Peppa was being sarcastic.

Still not buying that.

The attitudes of your peers must be very different from the majority of people I have ever witnessed at any school (and I have been in many). I have yet to meet a person who is impressed by a violent attitude.

Cananada must be a very nice, safe place to live.

You missed the point completely. One person's support can make all the difference when it comes to being bullied. One person can make the difference between depression and hope, between suicide and life.

I'd like to see some proof for that. You think that just one person's support can cure clinical depression or bipolar disorder? Because you haven't separated the fact that some suicides/murders are simply because of a correctable flaw in someone's brain chemistry, and not in any actions or events in their life.

 

[Every Breaking Wave]

For all who are interested, there is a film which perfectly documents what can happen as a result of both bullying and cyber-bullying: Odd Girl Out. I recommend it to anyone who is interested.

Well let's ask Dr. Peppa. Because unless you're a sock puppet you're not speaking for them.

Then let us hope that Dr. Peppa revisits the thread soon.

No, I'm just saying that it is more unusual for a larger, stronger person to get punked. Typically the frailer, smaller, weaker person gets their butt handed to them.

And because they are smaller and weaker, that makes it okay for them to be bullied?

Cananada must be a very nice, safe place to live.

Not as nice and safe as you may think. Still, I have never seen reasonable people happy to see people beaten up; most of the time, they are concerned.

I'd like to see some proof for that. You think that just one person's support can cure clinical depression or bipolar disorder? Because you haven't separated the fact that some suicides/murders are simply because of a correctable flaw in someone's brain chemistry, and not in any actions or events in their life.

Not including my first-hand experiences and the experiences of several of my friends, here are 14 sources which back up what I have said: Sources

 

[Doug]

please don't feed the troll.

 

[Lethal Carnivine]

I'd like to see some proof for that. You think that just one person's support can cure clinical depression or bipolar disorder? Because you haven't separated the fact that some suicides/murders are simply because of a correctable flaw in someone's brain chemistry, and not in any actions or events in their life.

Oh, so people who have a something in their DNA so to speak to murder or commit suicide, it can be corrected? You do realize you are slightly contradicting yourself. Can you show us some of these cases in which said brain chemistry affected suicide/murder,hm?

 

[Nekusagi]

Speaking as someone who was bullied badly during middle school, FlyingLilyPad, I must say you are full of it.


Assault is a crime. Simply put, it is a crime. Bullying is a form of assault. Therefore, it should be criminalized. I fail to see how it causes "reliance on the system" simply to criminalize bullying any more than criminalizing assault already does. Verbal bullying as well as physical is assault. I'm still recovering from the scars I've had for nearly four years now that my experiences gave me. Tell me that's not worth making a crime.

And standing up for oneself isn't as easy as you make it sound. It can be intimidating and I for one can tell you if I stood up for myself I usually ended up getting it worse.

You know what? Go and be the unpopular kid in the class. Go hear the teachers tell you every time it will just go away if you ignore it, and believe them, and have your wounds torn open every time it doesn't go away. Go and wish every night you could just die or otherwise get out somehow. Go and find out what it's like to cry yourself to sleep every night. Then come back and tell me that bullying's not a problem. I dare you. Let's see how tough you are then.

 

[Satoshi-chan]

When some guy teased me on the bus, I turned around, punched him, bit him, and destroyed his iPod. But I gotta say, did he run crying to the school and Mommy?

No. Because it's despicable. Criminalizing cyberbullying just makes these kids worse-it makes them weaker and more dependant on the system. A system that isn't reliable and shouldn't be expected to solve everyone's problems anyway.

Well, of course people shouldn't rely on the system whenever they are bullied. A much more sensible reaction of course is to bring a gun into school with you and take down all the bullies. Of course you would be arrested, but all the bullies would no longer be able to torment any of the students, and anyone who was thinking about doing so would be a bit afraid to. That's the most win/win situation, don't you think? [/sarcasm]

Truthfully, I think that it is disgusting to sink to the same level as the bullies, and quite impossible to if the bullies are doing what they are doing because they are stronger than the ones who they bully (which is the case much of the time because most bullies are too cowardly to "pick on someone their own size). Having someone who is supposed to me watching over the students and making sure that they are not injured actually use their power to help out those students who aren't able to defend their own selves physically is the more logical route to take.

And before you state "survival of the fittest," it no longer works that way. Especially when it is more than likely the "wimpy nerd" who is currently keeping our world's technology up to date, they are actually more important and needed in this world than the muscle-bound bully.

 

[Dr. Peppa]

I was being sarcastic, "shocking right"? Since my whole post disagreed with yours it is pretty easy to assume that I was being sarcastic but for the sake of anyone else who may be confused I'll add a small note after it.

""=Sarcasm

 

[Fig]

School is about teaching people to live in society as much as anything else.

You know, including LETTING THE PROPER AUTHORITIES deal with rulebreaking and lawbreaking, and NOT taking justice into your own hand?

As such, the whole schoolyard omerta (or school bus omerta) is something that need to be summarily and mercilessly destroyed.

 

[Wonder Happiny]

School is about teaching people to live in society as much as anything else.

You know, including LETTING THE PROPER AUTHORITIES deal with rulebreaking and lawbreaking, and NOT taking justice into your own hand?

As such, the whole schoolyard omerta (or school bus omerta) is something that need to be summarily and mercilessly destroyed.

I agree with everything you said there.

Taking the law into your own hands will only get you into very deep trouble and you'll have to deal with the consequences. People who do that kind of crap have no respect for the rules or for the safety of themselves and others.

 

[Æsahættr]

You know what? Go and be the unpopular kid in the class. Go hear the teachers tell you every time it will just go away if you ignore it, and believe them, and have your wounds torn open every time it doesn't go away. Go and wish every night you could just die or otherwise get out somehow. Go and find out what it's like to cry yourself to sleep every night. Then come back and tell me that bullying's not a problem. I dare you. Let's see how tough you are then.

Knowing FLP's type, and knowing people who've experienced what you have, and having been on the receiving end of my fair share, it doesn't take anything more than common sense to know whose side I'm on in this debate.

I actually have a friend who is a much tamer version of FLP. His favourite thing to do is get you into an argument, and if and when he finds himself being outsmarted, begins spouting anything he knows will piss you off. It pisses you off because you both know that he is completely wrong, and he keeps going, which he finds hilarious. In short this appears to be the same thing, trolling.

Anyway, having been on the receiving end of some particularly harsh Cyberbullying quite recently (as anyone in the LGBTQA group will know), I whole-heartedly support it's criminalisation. It does make me rather upset however, that I know that this will be enforced just as harshly as music downloading.

flyinglilypad, this is directed right at you: How many of your "friends" know you play Pokemon, hmm? Yeah they may support the bullshit shenanigans you get up to inflicting pain on others, but would they really stay by you for two seconds if they knew you were posting about it on a Pokemon forum?

 

[Robert.Frenette]

I'm the person who was in that article

Hi Everyone,

I just had a chance to read most of the comments you guys made about the article that came out.

A few points I want to bring up:

1) I have Cerebral Palsy, and cant "fight back" and no I did not "sit there and let them burn my neck" - due to the fact that students were SCARD of these students no one wanted to speak up until they got online with the bulling and I had proof!

2) If anyone wnats to contact me directly with your comments about this good or bad email me at: [email protected].

3) Visit my Website, I'm one of the Founders of the first youth created anti-bullying Websites in Canada: www.BullyingCanada.Ca

4) If any of you think that I have spoke up out of the fact for attention - you are wrong! Google my name, you'll learn how much work I have done on Bullying over the last few years. After being bullied for 11 1/2 years something had to be done.