• The forums' spoiler embargo for all content from Pokémon Legends: Z-A's Mega Dimension DLC has been lifted! Feel free to talk about the new content from the expansion across the forums without the need of spoiler tabs!

    Please note that this lifted embargo only applies for the forums, and may still be in effect on other Bulbagarden sites.

The classic layouts; Outdated?

Bittersweet

Bittersweet

We're very concerned.
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
856
Reaction score
214
This is a long post, but I’d like to get the ball rolling on this one and get a real heated discussion going....

I felt the move into a 3D view of the Pokemon games’ overworld in Diamond, Pearl and Platinum was very well done. Camera angles changed and zoomed in occasionally making the game feel more real, in a way. They weren't just 2D pictures moving around a screen.

However, I think it also needs to be said that since the games were moving to the DS, the 3D was necessary. Would the games be as successful if they were still in 2D? Some of these cool updates were needed for the games to get with the times, as the DS series had clearly raised the bar.

I think it's time for Nintendo/Game Freak/whoever to do a serious graphics overhaul. Nintendo clearly has the technology to move the battles into 3D as well. I would like to see 3D Pokemon and trainer sprites. While some of the battle graphics are very nice, when you get down to it, it's still two flat pictures throwing stuff at eachother.

It's the little things that are still in the games that make me frown. When you enter a battle, why does the opponent not THROW the PokeBall? Your character does, so why can't they? The ball just appears on the ground. I know it's a small detail, but still. Frustratingly for me, I’ve seen that the battle layout hasn’t changed AT ALL in HeartGold and SoulSilver (most likely to maintain compatibility with the other Gen 4 games).
Another thing I think needs redoing is the Pokemon’s cries. At the moment they're just small sound files making electronic noises, and they’ve been that way for the entire Pokemon franchise. At this point, the Pokemon could start to sound more like animals. These sound effects were a novelty five or ten years ago but I think they’ve gone from a nice novelty to plain and boring.
While new features are added to the games (which are very cool), I continue to see the same old battle layout and overworld viewing used over and over. It’s great to add stuff, but I think it’s a nice touch to update and change them. Why can’t your character sprite move diagonally? Why do the character sprites look like bobble heads? They could start to be scaled more like people (as I’ve seen done in Pokemon Ranger already).

There is of course the argument that this is a ‘classic’ layout of the Pokemon world and it will never die. While I think this is true and I really enjoyed these simple but cool layouts, I still feel it must be updated and redone for a very important reason; this layout may be able to maintain a veteran fan’s interest who’s been with Pokemon for a while, but it may become harder to get new fans to play the games with such old layouts. In this day and age, are there any games for the DS NOT being produced in 3D?

Also, wouldn’t the games “feel” better if the touch screen could be put to use a lot more? This isn’t really a problem with the game; more an idea. In a battle, it would feel really cool if you could throw a new PokeBall into battle with the stylus, maybe. Perhaps you could drag an item to the Pokemon you want to give it to. Just ideas that I think would make battles more interactive.

Yes, the large add-ons in the games such as the Pokemon Contests, Battle Frontier, the Underground etc. make the game popular, but it is the little things that can be added that will MAINTAIN that popularity.
There could be larger waves at the beach areas, so you could wade into the water a little, instead of the water deciding to stop at some point. At the end of the sand, does the water suddenly drop to fifty feet deep?
Trees waving in the breeze...
Grass patches that don’t all look the same...
A Pokedex that uses the touch screen even more...
Pokemon sprites more to scale; Caterpie being even smaller than it is now and Rayquaza taking up an entire third of the screen...
These are just little things that could make all the difference. I honestly think that if these basic updates were utilised in the next Generation, they would be the most popular Pokemon games to date.

Gen 5 will be played on the next big Nintendo console, most likely with 2 widescreen touch screens. I hope:expect:. If the battles are still in 2D when they get to Gen 5, or if something really revolutionarily cool isn’t done to make them more appealing, I may leave the Pokemon games behind...The very thought of which saddens me...:-(

Any objections/replies to what I’ve said here?
Does anyone else feel that the battle layout is in need of 3D?
Do you get annoyed by any small flaws in the graphics? Have they annoyed you for a while and never gotten redone?
What other stuff do you think needs redoing?

Maybe Nintendo/Game Freak will do something in the face of public opinion. You never know!
 
To be honest, I certainly wouldn't enjoy a full 3D battle mode on the DS. Have you seen how tacky and spiky the 3D animaitions are on the DS? I an enjoy the little things, an explosion here, a smokescreen there, and the 3D-rendered outdoors are a nice touch too. But I doubt a full 3D battle mode would be a joy for the eyes; at least not for my eyes. I much rather enjoy the current 2D battle layout they have going for them with simple 3D effects. Plus they have started using 'living' 2D sprites alot in the recent games so when the next batch of them rolls around I don't the Pokemon or trainers will seem that stiff and still-standing.

I agree with you on the sounds though. For example Onix still has the same sound file for its roar as it did back when I played Pokemon Red on my GameBoy Pocket! I mean really. They only seem to add better sounding cries, roars and whatnot the newer Pokemon instead of just giving the whole thing an overhaul. But that's Nintendo for you, I guess.

Concerning the stick I think it would get awfully tedious if you had to do any drag-and-drop stuff for say items, Pokeballs and whatnot. I've always enjoyed the Pokemon games for their easy control system and adding features just like that would be very annoying. I know the DS has a good user customization, I mean you can use both the arrows pad and the stick to select moves and stuff you'll when in battle, but making the player depend on the touchscreen more than they already do would just annoy me, personally.

That's just my two cents I guess.
 
^I think it would be a nice OPTION to use the touch screen to drag and drop. You could still use the buttons if you want. The icon for the item could be onscreen and you could either drag it to the Pokemon on use the pad and then press A. I still like the idea of using the touch screen more when possible.
 
As far as 3D battles go are you looking at something that is similar to the stadium/coloseum/xd/pbr system or something completely new? I also agree that with the previous poster about the capabilities of the DS with regards to looking at stuff in 3D. Heck, the images are kinda pixely and jagged even when you zoom in on the trainer when you use dig or an escape rope and also in the little pre elite four battle animations.

With regards to cries, I think they are keeping some of the original albeit flawed RBY cries just for the sake of continuity wchih might be difficult to retcon. I do agree that some of the cries from the olden days are deffinitely in need of a touch up. For example. Ryhorn and Charizard have the same cry!!! What the Heck. SO yea, cries deffinitely need to be updated.

As far as the touch screen goes, I think having the games be more interactive is always cool but I tink it shoudl always be possible to play the game without the touchscreen. I like how I can use the controls to move around and if I get azy use my finger to select which moves my pokemon use.

Im not really sure what nintendo has in store for us for the next handheld game system but hopefully the next generation of pokemon will take full advantage of its capabilities.
 
Let's put it this way. the 3D thing needs a lot of work.
 
Well, hoping the next Nintendo's handheld has way better 3D, then yes I would love to see some battles in 3D, although it would need to be on a new system not on the DS (Which it won't be on the DS [or DSi] most likely) I also think the characters should be more proportioned, although we would all miss the shrink ray at the beginning of the story....:) And as for the grass not all looking the same and the trees swaying...well that's not important to me. Lets focus on making some good looking POKÉMON first then they can worry about that stuff..

That's my two cents I guess
 
I suppose this is a preference that carried over from playing Disgaea on portables and experiences with XD, but 3D animations would cause battles to take way too long for no other reason than just to be flashy. I'd say keep graphics as simple as possible to give us more content.
 
they wouldn't have to make it longer though, there ARE ways to make it 3D without adding a bunch of flashyness.

Maybe pokémon battles could be real time? I personally would love that. Although, it would have it's draw backs and probably wouldn't happen till gen VI or VII.

Maybe a console game.
 
If they are going real time, it'd better be a side-series or something to test the waters first.
 
While the 3D is needed one thing needs to happen:
Masuda needs to stop smoking whatever the fuck he smokes from Nintendo's stash and stop thinking 2D is good cause its artsy.
 
Mitchman said:
While the 3D is needed one thing needs to happen:
Masuda needs to stop smoking whatever the fuck he smokes from Nintendo's stash and stop thinking 2D is good cause its artsy.
Click to expand...
3D Pokemon still look like shit. 3D humans, even more so.
I hope they'd still release game art if they made the shift to full 3D, but judging from the Colosseum series, I have my doubts.
 
I think that if they can get designs down and fix the bugs, a full 3D main series pokemon game would be a sight to see. And awesome.

I've actually been wondering about real-time pokemon for a while.
 
Yea, but it would definitely need to be a side game, because it could turn into a disaster to have real time battles.

As for not having 2D art I'm pretty positive they would. You can't create a 3D character without sketching out 2D art most of the time, especially for the new Pokémon. Well you can, but I bet they would make 2D versions, plus there is always the anime I guess.....what if that went 3D? That's a whole different topic sorry....lol

I think we will get there but not by next gen.
 
Brock's Biggest Fan said:
To be honest, I certainly wouldn't enjoy a full 3D battle mode on the DS. Have you seen how tacky and spiky the 3D animaitions are on the DS? I an enjoy the little things, an explosion here, a smokescreen there, and the 3D-rendered outdoors are a nice touch too. But I doubt a full 3D battle mode would be a joy for the eyes; at least not for my eyes. I much rather enjoy the current 2D battle layout they have going for them with simple 3D effects. Plus they have started using 'living' 2D sprites alot in the recent games so when the next batch of them rolls around I don't the Pokemon or trainers will seem that stiff and still-standing.

I agree with you on the sounds though. For example Onix still has the same sound file for its roar as it did back when I played Pokemon Red on my GameBoy Pocket! I mean really. They only seem to add better sounding cries, roars and whatnot the newer Pokemon instead of just giving the whole thing an overhaul. But that's Nintendo for you, I guess.

Concerning the stick I think it would get awfully tedious if you had to do any drag-and-drop stuff for say items, Pokeballs and whatnot. I've always enjoyed the Pokemon games for their easy control system and adding features just like that would be very annoying. I know the DS has a good user customization, I mean you can use both the arrows pad and the stick to select moves and stuff you'll when in battle, but making the player depend on the touchscreen more than they already do would just annoy me, personally.

That's just my two cents I guess.
Click to expand...


Charizard uses flamethower. Head rears back, many flames. In sprites. Animations for misses would be cool.
 
Outrage said:
3D Pokemon still look like shit. 3D humans, even more so.
I hope they'd still release game art if they made the shift to full 3D, but judging from the Colosseum series, I have my doubts.
Click to expand...
No I meant the game style in 2D top down look that it had for the past 13 bloody years. That's the art style Masuda considers artsy and that's why the shift hasn't come yet.
 
I hope my first post here doesn't sound bitchy, but here it goes...

I agree that the layout needs updating. Hell, the whole GAME needs updating. So far Nintendo have been basically rehashing the same game since the first conception of Gold and Silver. Yes, they've been adding bells and whistles here and there, but to really breathe new life in to the franchise they need a huge overhaul of EVERYTHING, layout included.

I'm sure you've all heard people like me rant on and on about what needs to be changed, so I'll leave it at this: To really make Pokemon appeal to more than hardcore fans and 8 year olds Nintendo have to be willing to scrap some tried and tested formulas. We're basically playing a prettier version of Final Fantasy III with 500 characters to choose from!

Rant over.

Even with all my agro Pokemon will still have a special place in my gaming collection. I'll still play every new release, even if they do teach me how to play EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Is there a board for raging Pokemaniacs that have issues? >_<
 
The 3D graphics on the DS are horrible, and having them would mean cutting the game short due to memory issues. So no.
 
Techincally it is 3D just not at a proper angle and no 3D models for anything.
 
Vance said:
The 3D graphics on the DS are horrible, and having them would mean cutting the game short due to memory issues. So no.
Click to expand...

I figured we were talking about Gen V, and if so, it won't be on DS, so we won't have that problem.

Hopefully Nintendo's next handheld can handle 3D exceptionally.
 
Please note: The thread is from 16 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
Back
Top Bottom