The extent of Zoroark's ability

[The Outrage]

Serebii* posts this, stating that the official B/W site has clarified the ability Illusion:

We also appear to have some clarification on the new ability Illusion. The official site states Zoroark will appear as a different Pokémon when it enters battle. The name of the opponent is different to hide the fact that it is Zoroark, but the type remains Dark.

With the name, and the fact that Zoroark remains a dark type Pokemon upon "transformation" we can conclude that it is not in fact a transformation in the sense that Ditto and Mew transform, but that Zoroark's ability does something to the way people and Pokemon process sensory information and causes them to perceive it differently, hence an illusion.

Of course, the current description is limited by game mechanics, but that's what this discussion is for. How far can this ability extend? We've seen from the movie that Zoroark not only changes visual perception but also auditory perception as its cries certainly are that of the Legendary Beasts. Its attacks in that form may also have just been an illusion along with the destruction of the town.

So my questions are:

Does its illusions extend to the touch senses?
If it doesn't, then a mere touch towards Zoroark's form, no matter how you perceive it should indicate something is wrong.

Does it extend to the sense of smell?
Primarily asking because Pokemon have a good sense of smell, and if it doesn't its identity could be easily identified by Pokemon who can Odeur Sleuth.

Can it fool psychic and aura-based abilities?
Honestly, I doubt it can fool aura based abilities since aura users are able to identify things based on its aura, and Psychic abilities, they'd have to have a good ability to block psychic powers for them to not find the truth. Then again, Zoroark are dark Pokemon, which comes with a built-in "psy-block" which would make it seem like they are protected from Psychic Pokemon or humans with Psychic abilities, but they would certainly find something wrong when they can't sense Zoroark's presence when its in the form of a non-dark pokemon.

So, in the end, I doubt that (outside of game restrictions), people with proficient aura powers, and even minor psychic abilities that allow you to just sense other people's presence, would be fooled by Zoroark.

Can its ability extend outside from its cloaking its form?

We've seen from Lucario's entry that it's aura sensing abilities can actually extend to an 800m radius if properly trained. That's a massive range.

Now how far can a Zoroark's ability to create illusions extend? By that, I mean can it's power extend past cloaking its form and making people believe that their very surroundings are something they are not, and like Lucario, how far is the range for this ability?

Certainly it does make Zoroark look powerful and even a reality warper, but at the end of the day, its still an illusion.

EDIT: In light of new information I just gathered from the movie:

Spoiler

Zoroark creates an illusion that the whole town the movie takes place in is destroyed, so his powers can extend in a very wide range.

Back to the point before this, Aura users would probably sense the illusion right away due to their aura senses, while Psycic Pokemon probably won't be able to tell it apart since their powers reside within the mind, and not the flow of energy in the surroundings, so in terms of an environment-wide illusion, Psychic Pokemon are at a disadvantage.

Also would be cool for a smartass Zoroark to abuse this ability in the anime.

*

Spoiler

Please don't go into a debate about Serebii here, thank you.

 

[Spikeheila]

Hmm,well if Zoroark is indeed pretty powerful and can block even aura-aware pokemon and such... then that pretty much means Zoroark is pokemon's Sosuke Aizen, err if you know bleach,you'd know what I'm talking about.
If this is the case, Zoroark has among THE greatest potential to be a complete dick in the pokemon universe

 

[The Outrage]

Hmm,well if Zoroark is indeed pretty powerful and can block even aura-aware pokemon and such... then that pretty much means Zoroark is pokemon's Sosuke Aizen, err if you know bleach,you'd know what I'm talking about.
If this is the case, Zoroark has among THE greatest potential to be a complete dick in the pokemon universe

Yeah, I can see a Zoroark on Steroids becoming the Aizen of Pokemon, but even then, the Captain-Commander said he can tell Aizen's spiritual energy inside him when he got stabbed.

Honestly, I don't see it blocking Aura since that's a fighting based ability which is good against Zoroark, a dark Pokemon. The ironic thing is that a Psychic's lack of ability to probably sense Zoroark is what gives its identity away.

Though Psychic Pokemon probably would get fooled by illusions applied to the environment. There's also the question of Foresight or Miracle eye which nullifies dark immunity to psychic.

If this is the case, Zoroark has among THE greatest potential to be a complete dick in the pokemon universe

Apart from the one species that can sense aura, and the few people who can sense it as well, all Zoroark has to do is stay away from Psychic people who may not even be aware of it unless they try to actively sense Zoroark's presence. In the end, Psychics will only be able to tell its a Zoroark by accident, they can't actively search for it.

I wish Zoroark was the main villain in B/W considering that its ability has the potential to fool everyone, and even then, they just have to fool the higher ups in society to do what it wants them to.

What, people opposing you? Create an illusion towards someone powerful that the people opposing you are opposing them, and your hands don't even have to get dirty.

 

[Spikeheila]

Yeah, I can see a Zoroark on Steroids becoming the Aizen of Pokemon, but even then, the Captain-Commander said he can tell Aizen's spiritual energy inside him when he got stabbed.

Honestly, I don't see it blocking Aura since that's a fighting based ability which is good against Zoroark, a dark Pokemon. The ironic thing is that a Psychic's lack of ability to probably sense Zoroark is what gives its identity away.

Though Psychic Pokemon probably would get fooled by illusions applied to the environment. There's also the question of Foresight or Miracle eye which nullifies dark immunity to psychic.

Trust me,I know that the absense of the feeling would give it away, I've seen a trick like that pulled plenty in shows and even rps. Though I am unsure that the aura thing is truly a fighting ability, since ash can do it and i think a few other pokemon have had hints of sensing things such as aura, can't remember them specifically.

As for foresight and miracle eye, hmm that's a tough one, although remember, if Zoroark can only create an illusion of it's form it STILL has the complete compacity to use attacks with the pokemon whose form it is using, although I am also wondering if the moves it uses are based on level,or if it's just an alteration of transform where it completely copies the moves of the pokemon. The latter is more probable, though being limited to what moves a pokemon would use at the level zoroark is at would nullify it's supposed immense power.

Since zoroark can also use so+so move while transformed,and actually do damage to objects, though as you said it is unknown if the damage is real or just an illusion, then it would use the attacks to keep the psychic types distracted and unable to do quite as much as they should, imo, but then again we still dont know if it has the weaknesses of what it turns into.

What, people opposing you? Create an illusion towards someone powerful that the people opposing you are opposing them, and your hands don't even have to get dirty.

and with that...Zoroark can friggin start WARS

 

[The Outrage]

Though I am unsure that the aura thing is truly a fighting ability, since ash can do it and i think a few other pokemon have had hints of sensing things such as aura, can't remember them specifically.

The thing with Aura is that it is applied to sensing the flow of energy of the environment, something that I doubt Zoroark can change. So, while all the other senses for a Lucario or people like Riley may be warped by Zoroark, their aura senses would tell them otherwise.

if Zoroark can only create an illusion of it's form it STILL has the complete compacity to use attacks with the pokemon whose form it is using, although I am also wondering if the moves it uses are based on level,or if it's just an alteration of transform where it completely copies the moves of the pokemon.

The fact that it is an illusion makes me think that the attacks it used in the movie were illusions as well, so its moves may be his actual moves but disguised.

If they aren't and he's also manipulating the sense of touch, then perhaps it extends to pain receptors, in which case, why not just make people believe they are in pain >_>

Also disguising itself as inanimate object without consciousness is a really easy way to hide form a Psychic Pokemon, since it wouldn't expect to sense the consciousness of a rock anyway. Now an aura user, aura emanates from everything apparently, so it can probably tell it apart.

 

[d.aisuke]

]Zoroark creates an illusion that the whole town the movie takes place in is destroyed, so his powers can extend in a very wide range.

No, the villain creates that illusion.

Anyway, before I get riled up and make a long-ass post, are we talking about the movie/anime or the games?
Or both?

 

[The Outrage]

No, the villain creates that illusion.

Anyway, before I get riled up and make a long-ass post, are we talking about the movie/anime or the games?
Or both?

I'd rather ignore the game mechanic since that limits what the Pokeverse Zoroark can probably do. The anime is a better approximation, but basically, we are talking in terms of the Pokeverse.

So the villain creates that illusion, so there is still no evidence that Zoroark can actually extend its power to the environment, but there is nothing suggesting that an incredibly powerful Zoroark can't.

Still disguising itself as a rock will fool any psychic Pokemon. Then again, what are they gonna do, its a dark type >_>

 

[Spikeheila]

I'd rather ignore the game mechanic since that limits what the Pokeverse Zoroark can probably do. The anime is a better approximation, but basically, we are talking in terms of the Pokeverse.

So the villain creates that illusion, so there is still no evidence that Zoroark can actually extend its power to the environment, but there is nothing suggesting that an incredibly powerful Zoroark can't.

An incredibly powerful any-poke can do just about whatever it pleases.. including Magikarp,since,ya know, having a solid hard fish jumping AT you at a decent speed can smash your head in...anyways...I can't wait to see just what a zoroark is capable of

Still disguising itself as a rock will fool any psychic Pokemon. Then again, what are they gonna do, its a dark type >_>

They would use pound,or an alakazam or abra could use teleport to go inside of it's body after it reveals itself and split it apart from the inside out or be like the chest-burster from Alien.
Abra: Type advantage THAT,bitch

 

[The Outrage]

Pretty sure reforming around solid objects is going to kill them too. Not like Abra starts of a tiny and then grows big inside Zoroark pushing it apart.

 

[Agent Gryphon]

I was actually discussing such a power with someone a month or two ago when Zoroark was shown. I hope that Zoroark is not an event Pokemon and there will be more Pokemon to have this ability (Noctowl anyone? The Ghost types such as Gengar? They all used some sort of Illusion in the anime before).

It will be interesting to see how Illusion works. I am sure Pokemon will sense something is different and will try to warn their trainers. I don't think psychic types will really do anything.

On a side note: Zoroark would make the perfect Pokemon for an Illusionist character in my story Hope they aren't event or Legendary.

Just remembered something, Pokemon using Illusion isn't really new in the anime. Noctowl, Gastly, Haunter, Gengar, Mismagius, Stantler (And most Ghost types) have all used hypnosis or something to send an Illusion on them so it will probably be like the way they do it only different because it's an ability not a attack

 

[The Outrage]

Just remembered something, Pokemon using Illusion isn't really new in the anime. Noctowl, Gastly, Haunter, Gengar, Mismagius, Stantler (And most Ghost types) have all used hypnosis or something to send an Illusion on them so it will probably be like the way they do it only different because it's an ability not a attack

The difference is that Zoroark is an illusionist Pokemon, so its abilities should be stronger.

 

[V Faction]

I just sort've skimmed through the pages, but has there been any discussion to the mass and matter of things and beings it can portray?

Zoroark is a decently-sized Pokemon. It's ability is in illusions. Does it have the ability to disguise itself as a smaller Pokemon? I don't think it can personally. You can't subtract the matter of something that's there into not there.

I get the feeling it can only change into beings or objects of roughly the same shape or bigger. While Zorua could become a Diglett or Shroomish, Zorua probably can't. And vise-versa, Zoroark probably has an easier time mimicing larger Pokemon like Dragonite or Arcanine. I'm skeptical if they could portray oddly-shaped or massive Pokemon, like Steelix or Wailord.

 

[Agent Gryphon]

Outrage- True
V- I think that it will able to change into something smaller. While it will still be big if you could see through Illusions (Foresight) while in an illusion it can look like anything and anybody.

 

[The Outrage]

Zoroark is a decently-sized Pokemon. It's ability is in illusions. Does it have the ability to disguise itself as a smaller Pokemon? I don't think it can personally. You can't subtract the matter of something that's there into not there.

See, its not actually transforming, but creating an illusion. Technically it can make itself look like a smaller or even a substantially larger Pokemon.

The problem with that is, if its illusion abilities don't affect the touch senses, its ruse would be easily found out by coming in contact with it. However, if all five senses are being manipulated, it would be easy for Zoroark to disguise itself as something bigger. Something smaller, is another issue since even if the people in the illusion can't feel anything, their hand still can't go through solid objects and try to pet a 1 foot tall Pichu when its actually a Zoroark.

Ideally if it was trying to pretend to be something, it would transform into something of similar proportions.

Also Ditto as no problem with it, and it actually is adding and subtracting matter as compared to creating an illusion.

 

[V Faction]

Also Ditto as no problem with it, and it actually is adding and subtracting matter as compared to creating an illusion.

I wasn't going to touch on that in my post, but the transformation with Ditto is actually plausible. Ditto reconstructs his entire DNA structure to alter his appearance. There's no magic tricks -- it's all real. It's shapeshifting in the purest sense. So that makes sense.

Going back to Zoroark, what you were suggesting is almost like hypnotism. Reaching a point where all 5 senses are fooled goes beyond even your own perception. A Zoroark disguised as Golem actually feels heavy like a Golem. Now, I'm not saying from what we know that such deep trickier is outside Zoroark's capabilities, but I'm leaning more towards it being simple sight-based illusionary deception.

And that harkens back to my "of similar build and shape" theory. If Zoroark were to try and mimic a smaller Pokemon, its body would be hanging out in the open. Imagine going to pick up a Rattata and feeling a furry coat about 3 feet in the air where there shouldn't be anything.

The way I've been envisioning this illusion technique is almost like a cloak.

- Zoroark doesn't need someone's presence to create it.
- It can be reflected accurately in water.
- It cover his body like a suit of armor.
- The body doesn't disappear.
- It's not a wall to hide behind; you can't destroy the illusion by going around the backside.
- If Zoroark is knocked out, the illusion can't be held.
- Can be seen through via Auroa.

With those properties in mind, getting Zoroark to become something outrageous, like a Spoon for example, is out of the question.

 

[The Outrage]

I wasn't going to touch on that in my post, but the thing with Ditto is actually plausible. Ditto reconstructs his entire DNA structure to alter his appearance. There's no magic tricks -- it's all real. It's shapeshifting in the purest sense. So that makes sense.

Not if you adhere to real world genetics, and the laws of conservation, but this not being a science class we'll let that go and assume Ditto gets energy and material from somewhere to cause rapid cell growth.

- Zoroark doesn't need someone's presence to create it.
- It can be reflected accurately in water.
- It cover his body like a suit of armor.
- The body doesn't disappear.
- It's not a wall to hide behind; you can't destroy the illusion by going around the backside.
- If Zoroark is knocked out, the illusion can't be held.
- Can be seen through via Auroa.

That's generally what I think its powers are limited to as well, however what I think it does is that it fools the senses or emits an energy in such a way that the way the brain processes those five senses are warped. Though going by that, it would have the potential to warp aura senses.

With that in mind, I don't think that its reflection would actually show the illusion, though if the illusion is like a cloak, then it makes perfect sense for it to do that.

I don't have a link to the video on me, but when Zoroark from his form to Ash, there are segments that become see through between the Ash/Zoroark transformation. I don't knwo what you'd make of that, but its certainly not something you would see if it was fooling the way the mind perceives something.

Yeah, I'm more leaning towards a cloak, though I think it can disguise itself to look smaller, its just not a very good disguise when someone tries to pick you up and touches the rest of your body.

So back on the point you made here:

And that harkens back to my "of similar build and shape" theory. If Zoroark were to try and mimic a smaller Pokemon, its body would be hanging out in the open. Imagine going to pick up a Rattata and feeling a furry coat about 3 feet in the air where there shouldn't be anything.

Yeah, that's exactly what I think would happen. Realistically it could do that, but for practical disguising purpose, it wouldn't.

Though this brings up another possibility? Can it make itself invisible? If the above is true, than I think it certainly is a possibility, but it may be a much harder stunt to pull as Zoroark would have to have a good idea of what its surroundings look like from any point of view. If that's the case, then there would probably be small distortions in where it "transformed", so even transforming into smaller Pokemon would create this distortion.

So yeah, ideally, Pokemon of similar size and shape if you wish to interact, Pokemon that are larger if you just want to scare people, and small Pokemon are just not practical for its size.

As for Zorua, I doubt this applies vice versa in transforming into larger creatures like Zoroark would in the same way, but that its illusion abilities are so limited in that it wouldn't be able to hold an illusion that big.

 

[V Faction]

I just get this great mental picture of a Zorua and Zoroark both trying to mimic something like a Bidoof, and one version is about the normal size while the other is 3x bigger.

For invisibility, there are devices out there that bend the light in such a way as to make you think you aren't seeing anything. Zoroark would probably use the same technique. Or, it may do something like Kecleon and camouflage itself, but I don't think that's quite what the producers were going for.

In Zoroark's case, if it were trying to hide, it might be easier for it to take on the guise of a boulder or a statue rather than turn itself completely invisible.

 

[The Outrage]

Hijacking d.aisuke's post from the CoroCoro thread, there are interesting tidbits I want to address:

No, Zoroark is the Villain's bitch. He shows the people in the city Pics and Video of Zoroark attacking and destroying the city. In reality, Zoroark does masquerade as the Beasts, but She doesn't but anything, it's like Ho-Oh in the anime.
She just appears.
Fact of the matter is, Zoroark does jack shit, She just wants her baby back.

So in the anime, Zoroark's not actually using the Beast's attacks, much like I thought, however Zoroark isn't disguising his own attack either.

I'm fairly certain the Illusion will wear off after a certain amount of time, in one picture it says " Zoroark's Illusion dissolved"
Love the choice of the verb.

The choice of using the word "dissolve" makes it seem like the illusion is actually a cloak like you suggested, and it in fact does take a fair bit of power to produce, which would compliment the comments of Zorua's inability to transform into something large.

Presumably it takes more power to create a larger illusion which Zorua doesn't have, so there certainly does seem to be a limit on the size of the illusion if this were the case.

I just get this great mental picture of a Zorua and Zoroark both trying to mimic something like a Bidoof, and one version is about the normal size while the other is 3x bigger.

For invisibility, there are devices out there that bend the light in such a way as to make you think you aren't seeing anything. Zoroark would probably use the same technique. Or, it may do something like Kecleon and camouflage itself, but I don't think that's quite what the producers were going for.

In Zoroark's case, if it were trying to hide, it might be easier for it to take on the guise of a boulder or a statue rather than turn itself completely invisible.

Yeah, I forgot about those devices, which honestly made me really interested in them when I first read them. Not to mention that Latias does that to make herself invisible so Zoroark can certainly do that.

Though, if I recall, close up those light bending devices kind of distort the image, which is what I imagine would happen to Zoroark. Latias' light bending abilities work much the same way.

My comment on invisibility isn't so much as to whether a Zoroark would choose to do it, rather that it could.

 

[Enzap]

If it can make something appear to exist, then why shouldn't it be capable of making something appear nonexistent. It could project the image of whatever is behind it so it would appear invisible.

 

[The Outrage]

If it can make something appear to exist, then why shouldn't it be capable of making something appear nonexistent. It could project the image of whatever is behind it so it would appear invisible.

The difference is that Zoroark would have to know accurately what the stuff behind it (and all around it) looks like before it does that which could cause problems. Making something appear means it just has to know what its disguise looks like.