The Movies: Canon or Non-Canon?

[fawfulmark2]

After perusing a few forums and reading discussions on the topic, I felt that is should be asked so we get a real answer: do you believe the films of Pokemon are canon to the main anime? this has been something that always concerned me for a bit upon hindset, but that I didn't really care much for until a point. See with most anime films, they are uuallywritten one of 2 ways: one is as a fun sidestory to the main plot that doesn't tie into everything(like every DBZ move Sans the Trunks/Bardock films and BotG), or as a definitive finale to wrap up an entire series(like End of Evangelion or Madoka Magica REBELLION.) In the case of the Pokemon films however, they are written like a side adventure that easily could be similar to the occasional multi-part episodes of Pokemon, because with the Pokemon anime there is no real filler arcs since it is it's own standalone thing, and not bogged with made up things like Hinata having lightsaber fingers in Naruto or an entire finale being fighting Magical Ninjas in Ruroni Kenshin. Due to this I simply wrote off all the films as just "extended episodes" to the main series proper and carried on.

Then Movie 14 happened.

This movie could not feasibly be canon, due to the dual nature of the movie, or rather only one part could be. But no matter what part it was, it would contradict something that happened in the actual BW series(mostly involving the Tao Dragons). Also there is the fact that in every film the location was in a made-up setting,though there are allusions to what regions they could be in(for example the Arceus Movie's setting,while most likely sinnoh, could have possibly been near Johto going by the majority of Pokemon that appeared.), which only makes me question why not use actual settings from the games? And I would prefer not to get started on the whole 2 Mewtwos thing.


So this raises the main question: what films do you believe re canon, and what ones are not? I know for sure the first film is absolutely canon(The Gary/Shigeru fight, the Mewtwo Special, etc.) and as stated the Victini movie can NOT be canon going by events in the series, but what about the rest?

 

[Galar Adventurer]

Most of the movies are canon.

Ash uses his Aura from M08 is used in Pokémon Ranger and the Kidnapped Riolu (Part One - Part Two)

M03 is canon. Ash's Charizard is still in Charicific Valley.

The DP trilogy is canon.

M16 is canon as Virgil appeared in the Mewtwo Prologue having only
appeared in Best Wishes Season 2, prior to that special.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I consider all of the movie besides the Victini movie canon to the anime series. Besides the already mentioned proof for the Mewtwo movie, the second movie was referenced during Master Quest, Charizard was still in the Charicific Valley during the third movie, Ash said that he met Suicune during Master Quest as well, I think that the events of the Deoxys movie were mentioned in the first Pokemon Ranger special during Battle Frontier, Ash's aura powers were mentioned in DP, Dawn's Lunar Wing that she bought during the Darkari movie was shown in DP and Virgil appeared in the Mewtwo Prologue for the Genesect movie. Most of the movies have some connection to the anime series and aside from the Victini movie, they could easily fit into specific parts of the series.

As for the locations, they probably want to make their own settings for the movies to make them stand out, especially when I think each movie's setting is based on a different real world location. Plus, they might want to save video game locations for the anime.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

With exception of 14th movie Pokemon White and Black; Victini and Reshiram, Victini and Zekrom which for whatever reason had two different stories following same plot which differs in several aspects from each other canon wise. Bringing up in question authenticy of events which took place there and if they even supposed to showcase story incorporated in timeline and events Best Wishes series followed(many strange and illogical things happened in BW series, so poor planning could be one of reasons behind it).

In general all pokemon movies in my view can be considered canon 100% with several of them receiving references in main pokemon series through Ash and friends journey over past 17 years(time flies fast).

To name a few examples which i remember the most:
1st movie "Mewtwo Strikes Back": Mewtwo nearly killing Giovanni and battle between Giovanni and Gary was showed. All of this took place in pokemon series during time Ash went to challenge Viridian gym.

2nd movie "Power of One": Ash and friends mention during Silver arc in Whirl Islands side adventure how they already saw Lugia once in Orange Islands which took place around time 2nd movie aired.

3rd movie "Spell of Unown": (dont hold me on words about this but if i recall right Ash mentioned how they already met Entei once during episode "Entei at your own Risk" from Johto series (only time they met Entei prior to that happened in movie as manifestation of Unknown illusion).

But much stronger evidence was demonstrated when Liza and Charific valley from anime was showed in movie with Charizard deciding to leave and help Ash out.

4th movie "Celebii: Voice of the Forest": Ash saw Suicune and made reference to prof. Oak how he already met Suicune before (happened at start of Johto).

7th movie "Destiny Deoxys": LaRousse City from movie was mentioned as May rival Drew hometown in anime.

8th movie "Lucario and the Mystery of Mew": special guardian aura sir Aaron and Ash showed in movie became continuous thing coming up several times in main series later on. During episodes "The Keystone pops"(featuring Spirtomb ) and in "Pokemon Ranger and the kidnapped Rolu" two part episodes. Followed with Riley and Lucario appearances in Team Galactic episodes.

[10th movie "Rise of Darkrai": Lunar wing Dawn bought in movie appeared in episode "Sleepless pre Battle" from Sinnoh series when Darkrai and Cresselia appeared. Minor thing but in episode "Sphere of Influence" in one of show displays space-time towers from that movie were showed.

If i got something wrong and if there exist more examples which adds to argument of movies being tied with canon of pokemon series feel free to correct me or add on what i've said.

I always viewed pokemon movies as supplementation to main story anime series follow. Covering aspects of journey, towns and pokemon which happen between episodes or certain arcs set in main region Ash and co travels through. Extension to pokemon anime canon storyline featuring events and covering aspects of journey which due to time constraints, in advance preconstructed pat through which storyline would be told and played out couldn't be possible to cover through regular 20 minute episode.

There is a lot of evidence to make very strong case how plots introduced in movies and impact they leave on world and characters are entangled mutually with main storyline pokemon anime follows.

Only problem is that pokemon show as whole has scarse continuity, inconsistent story which has tendency to leave unfinished plots created in past about characters or pokemon turning into plot holes(like infamous GS ball). And very weak connection to past regions, events and characters be it side or ex main ones which left impact on its story, Ash character and integreity as whole thus making correlation between movies and anime sometime make it seem like its out of place. Bringing up disorder and confusion.

But regardless of that based on several references and throwbacks to events or pokemon which happened in movies brought by Ash and other characters or movies themselves acknowledghing sometime things which happened in main series(such as whole sequence showing Charific Valley and at that time residence of Carizard) gives enough solid material in my opinion to make case of movies being canon to pokemon series. Some sort of complementation to anime story. Which imo can be applied to specials like Mastermind of Mirage pokemon as well.

 

[Team Gaara]

I've generally concluded that that most movies cannot be canon. Obviously ones like the first one, where elements from events that happened in the series went into the movie, (namely, Giovanni and Mewtwo's suit) can be taken as canon. Then of course things that carry on into the series, like Ash's Aura from Lucario and the Mystery of Mew are canon.

As for the rest of them, no. I also didn't realize this until the Victini movies. Firstly, whenever Ash and Co. meet a legendary Pokemon in the movies, they usually have no memory of having met it before by the time it airs in the regular series. That alone makes the Zekrom and Reshiram movies non-canon since no character of the main trio remembered meeting either when they appeared in BW. I think this is also true for Dialga, Palkia, Shaymin, Jirachi, and perhaps Celebi, Deoxys, and Rayquaza, IIRC. Because of that, I have a hard time finding them canon to the series. I could be wrong about some of those Pokemon, but, in general, if Ash doesn't remember meeting a legendary that he met in a movie in the main series, I don't consider that movie canon to the series.

What I do think is that movies must be in their own canon. This is mainly because Pikachu had memories of each legendary encounter up until the Mirage of Mew in that movie. So I do think movies are canon to the other movies, but most probably aren't to the main series.

 

[Alola]

I've generally concluded that that most movies cannot be canon. Obviously ones like the first one, where elements from events that happened in the series went into the movie, (namely, Giovanni and Mewtwo's suit) can be taken as canon. Then of course things that carry on into the series, like Ash's Aura from Lucario and the Mystery of Mew are canon.

As for the rest of them, no. I also didn't realize this until the Victini movies. Firstly, whenever Ash and Co. meet a legendary Pokemon in the movies, they usually have no memory of having met it before by the time it airs in the regular series. That alone makes the Zekrom and Reshiram movies non-canon since no character of the main trio remembered meeting either when they appeared in BW. I think this is also true for Dialga, Palkia, Shaymin, Jirachi, and perhaps Celebi, Deoxys, and Rayquaza, IIRC. Because of that, I have a hard time finding them canon to the series. I could be wrong about some of those Pokemon, but, in general, if Ash doesn't remember meeting a legendary that he met in a movie in the main series, I don't consider that movie canon to the series.

What I do think is that movies must be in their own canon. This is mainly because Pikachu had memories of each legendary encounter up until the Mirage of Mew in that movie. So I do think movies are canon to the other movies, but most probably aren't to the main series.

I do not think just because they don't mention or explicitly state having met/seen the legendary before in the mainstream anime doesn't mean that the characters have "forgotten" the meeting or said legendary. They aren't obligated to prove to the audience their witnessing by saying something along the lines of "Hey guys! It's another Zekrom and Reshiram!" each time they see a legendary that has appeared in a movie.

 

[Neo Blaze]

I've generally concluded that that most movies cannot be canon. Obviously ones like the first one, where elements from events that happened in the series went into the movie, (namely, Giovanni and Mewtwo's suit) can be taken as canon. Then of course things that carry on into the series, like Ash's Aura from Lucario and the Mystery of Mew are canon.

As for the rest of them, no. I also didn't realize this until the Victini movies. Firstly, whenever Ash and Co. meet a legendary Pokemon in the movies, they usually have no memory of having met it before by the time it airs in the regular series. That alone makes the Zekrom and Reshiram movies non-canon since no character of the main trio remembered meeting either when they appeared in BW. I think this is also true for Dialga, Palkia, Shaymin, Jirachi, and perhaps Celebi, Deoxys, and Rayquaza, IIRC. Because of that, I have a hard time finding them canon to the series. I could be wrong about some of those Pokemon, but, in general, if Ash doesn't remember meeting a legendary that he met in a movie in the main series, I don't consider that movie canon to the series.

What I do think is that movies must be in their own canon. This is mainly because Pikachu had memories of each legendary encounter up until the Mirage of Mew in that movie. So I do think movies are canon to the other movies, but most probably aren't to the main series.

I do not think just because they don't mention or explicitly state having met/seen the legendary before in the mainstream anime doesn't mean that the characters have "forgotten" the meeting or said legendary. They aren't obligated to prove to the audience their witnessing by saying something along the lines of "Hey guys! It's another Zekrom and Reshiram!" each time they see a legendary that has appeared in a movie.

This, and there have also been instances in the main anime that Ash didn't recognize a Pokémon he had seen before.

I think the proof mentioned by others here, like the mentioning of having seen Lugia and Suicune, or Dawn's Lunar Wing prove more than anything that the movies are canon. Only the Reshiram/Zekrom movies are really debatable to me. I'd say Movie 1 and Movie 16 have the best connection with the anime through episodes and specials.

 

[Piplup]

I never realized why people even debate them being "canon"..... like, it's part of the Pokémon anime just like anything else... even if they never reference any of the movies in the show (which isn't true, as proved above) how would that make the movies any different than 50% of the show's episodes that have nothing significant happen in them and are never mentioned again in any way at all?

The only awkward instances continuity wise are the following:
- Movie 14, which probably still happened technically, and us the viewers are given the choice of which version we decide to go with, just like we do with the games (do anyone ever argue Black and White never happened and aren't canon to the game universe just because they had two opposite versions without a third "definitive" version? no, we just accept the basic of the story happened, and each can choose which version to go with - the same applies to Movie 14)
- The Meloetta short: it's impossible continuity-wise due to things like Misty's Togepi, Dawn's Piplup and Ash's Chikorita all co-existing at the same time... obviously it was done to celebrate the 15th anniversary and isn't supposed to be taken too seriously
- The Sylveon short: Wobbuffet being there with Meowth is the only thing in the way... I really don't know why they included it but I guess that's another "for fun" thing not to be taken too seriously
- Some of the ANA shorts are a bit too much to be taken seriously too and are probably also to be viewed as "for fun" extras... (that said, the actual movie shorts, excluding the mentioned BW ones, seem to fit just fine, same for Winter Vacation shorts and any other extras)

Other than that the only parts of the pkmn anime that aren't in the same continuity as the actual show are the things that obviously take place in different universes (Mystery Dungeon eps, Pokémon Origins, BW2 trailer...)
Then there are things like TRio's awkward past that was messed up with in that Chronicles ep, but you can't really say that ep is "not canon" either, it's really more like "the writers messed up and we're forced to live with it"

 

[Team Gaara]

I do not think just because they don't mention or explicitly state having met/seen the legendary before in the mainstream anime doesn't mean that the characters have "forgotten" the meeting or said legendary. They aren't obligated to prove to the audience their witnessing by saying something along the lines of "Hey guys! It's another Zekrom and Reshiram!" each time they see a legendary that has appeared in a movie.

Well, I'm sorry to be that person, but if they don't explicitly state or show in some way, shape, or form that they remember meeting/seeing the legendary and if they're acting like it's the first time they've met it in the Anime, then I naturally assume that it is the first time they've met it, rendering the movie non-canon.

 

[Alola]

I do not think just because they don't mention or explicitly state having met/seen the legendary before in the mainstream anime doesn't mean that the characters have "forgotten" the meeting or said legendary. They aren't obligated to prove to the audience their witnessing by saying something along the lines of "Hey guys! It's another Zekrom and Reshiram!" each time they see a legendary that has appeared in a movie.

Well, I'm sorry to be that person, but if they don't explicitly state or show in some way, shape, or form that they remember meeting/seeing the legendary and if they're acting like it's the first time they've met it in the Anime, then I naturally assume that it is the first time they've met it, rendering the movie non-canon.

Just out of curiosity, does this mentality also apply to the non-legendary Pokemon the gang encounter and don't explicitly state or show in some way, shape, or form that they remember meeting/seeing said non-legendary Pokemon?

 

[Team Gaara]

I do not think just because they don't mention or explicitly state having met/seen the legendary before in the mainstream anime doesn't mean that the characters have "forgotten" the meeting or said legendary. They aren't obligated to prove to the audience their witnessing by saying something along the lines of "Hey guys! It's another Zekrom and Reshiram!" each time they see a legendary that has appeared in a movie.

Well, I'm sorry to be that person, but if they don't explicitly state or show in some way, shape, or form that they remember meeting/seeing the legendary and if they're acting like it's the first time they've met it in the Anime, then I naturally assume that it is the first time they've met it, rendering the movie non-canon.

Just out of curiosity, does this mentality also apply to the non-legendary Pokemon the gang encounter and don't explicitly state or show in some way, shape, or form that they remember meeting/seeing said non-legendary Pokemon?

No~

 

[SlimeStack]

M14 is the only questionable one, but I say it did happen. Ash definitely went to Eindoak Town, saw the Sword of the Vale, met Victini, participated in the competition, etc. He's just never going to tell us if he was on Zekrom's back or Reshiram's back, and it doesn't matter too much which one it was.

 

[Silktree]

The thing is that the way Ash and co. went out of their way to find Reshiram in Episode N without mentioning having seen it before, certainly doesn't help establish either version of Movie 14 as being canon. That is too big a thing to ignore, but I guess that the other movies don't have that problem.

but you can't really say that ep is "not canon" either, it's really more like "the writers messed up and we're forced to live with it"

A certain movie comes to mind.

 

[Dogasu]

Filler episodes are rarely brought up after the fact. That doesn't magically render them "non-canon."

 

[Alola]

Filler episodes are rarely brought up after the fact. That doesn't magically render them "non-canon."

Exactly. This should equally be applied with the movies as well.

 

[P_S_B]

14 could be canon, at least one version could. According to the movie, Reshiram and Zekrom were sealed in stone orbs 1000 years prior to the film. Ash releases one during the film, while it is shown that Damon released the other dragon three years before the film was set. This means that in order for In the Shadow of Zekrom to happen, Zekrom must have been the dragon released by Damon, therefore Black: Victini and Reshiram is the canon film.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I say the canon despite Ash and group not recognizing the legendary pokemon in episodes.

 

[Shadowlarvitar]

Canon, Mewtwo's is canon as canon can get. Then Lugia from movie 2 is referenced in Johto.
And aura from Lucario returned in DP.

Movie 14 is probably up to the viewers to decide on their own which is canon and which is not.

And the Genesects were released by Team Plasma.

 

[CharizardtheBEAST]

14 could be canon, at least one version could. According to the movie, Reshiram and Zekrom were sealed in stone orbs 1000 years prior to the film. Ash releases one during the film, while it is shown that Damon released the other dragon three years before the film was set. This means that in order for In the Shadow of Zekrom to happen, Zekrom must have been the dragon released by Damon, therefore Black: Victini and Reshiram is the canon film.

Ash rode on the back of Reshiram

 

[KrspaceT]

I'd say they are canon, though they aren't as relevant to the overall narrative as say, the evolution of a Pokemon. Victini is the only tricky spot, but Broad Strokes solves it well enough