The Pokemon League

[MattW]

I have seen a lot of discussion and speculation about what the Pokemon League is and isn't, or at least, what it does and doesn't do and how far it extends. I have put a lot of thought into this (as have many people, I can see!) so it probably deserves its own topic.

First, I will say what I have rationally determined and am 95% certain of.
The League is a trainer's organization, the most respected and influential trainer's organization, and is at the forefront of Pokemon training / battling, a sport that is the heart of the culture of the Pokemon world.

Despite its prominence, it does not have any definite power; keep the peace and protecting both people and Pokemon from the other and each other seem to be the job of local authorities. There is no sign that its influence has been deliberately wielded in any particular situation, either. The Pokemon League does not force trainers to conform to its standard, but all the same has very high standards which many trainers aspire to.

The Pokemon League maintains a system of League badges and Gym Leaders. How exactly this is organized, and what its purposes is, I will discuss in the following paragraphs, as my own personal conclusions and not as certain as all I have said so far.

A Pokemon gym is a place for people and Pokemon to train and improve their skill. There are very many gyms all around the world. Often gyms teach a unique style of battling, and often gyms have a leading teacher who is the founder or who inherited the discipline of the gym, and who leads in the teaching of others who seek to train in the gym. Imagine gyms for different martial arts styles; that is what this closely resembles, after all.

Anyone who feels they have something to teach as far as Pokemon battling, or who desires a place to hone and refine their unique strategy, may found a gym. Because of this, not all gyms have the same quality. For instance, in the episode of the anime with the Yaz and Kaz gyms, these two gyms were full of thugs.

However, it is true that the Pokemon gyms of the world are an accurate representation of the diversity and depth of skill that Pokemon battling has achieved. Because of this, the Pokemon League chose gyms, or Gyms as I will call them, as the ideal way for trainers to prove their worth, a standard of sorts. Rather than setting up their own Gyms, however, the Pokemon League certifies Gyms which it judges to maintain high standards of excellence. Remember in that episode, Joy was a League representative who had been sent to evaluate those two gyms. (As far as I can tell, these Gyms have to contact the league to be certified, rather than the other way around, in at least most occasions.)

In exchange for the status that being a League-certified gym confers, League Gyms must accept all challengers (IMHO, in the anime, when Leaders are finicky, they are abusing their position, what they're doing isn't kosher). The Gym's Leader, if the Gym has a single person who heads it, is not required to fight himself/herself (in some occasions, the Leader has chosen someone else to take the challenge), but the Gym must choose one of its own to take on a challenger. The Gym is allowed to enforces its own rules for the match, however. (Except possibly that the Leaders uis not allowed to substitute Pokemon? I'm not sure about this.)

If the challenging trainer proves his/her skill and wins the battle, that trainers is judged worthy of maintaining or holding the standard of the League-certified Gym, and is given a League badge. When a trainer has collected a certain number of badges, he/she may be considered to have skilled that is at least proportional to the worth of the standards those badges maintain. There are more than 8 Gyms in any region, as evidenced by badges seen in the anime; this makes sense, because then a trainer is able to travel more freely and battle at Gyms which he/she comes across, rather than forced to travel to specific areas due to limited # of Gyms.


That is what I believe... I'm not sure what role the Pokemon League plays in a person's first Pokemon? In the anime, you're able to get your first Pokemon when you are a certain age, right? Is that just a cultural standard? I imagine that if the League helped organize the conferring of a Pokemon to a beginning trainer, they would be able to influence or determine the age at which a person can receive a Pokemon. I think Prof. Oak is related or connected to the League somehow.

 

[Barb]

I think that all professors work in harmony with the League's rules and regulations. If the League stipulates that trainers may receive their first Pokémon at age 10, then all professors in cities such as Pallet, New Bark Town, etc., would comply by having starters ready for any and all trainers.

However, there is the matter of maturity. I've met 10-year-olds who act and speak like 15-year--olds. I suspect that the professors would just their own judgment as to who is really ready to undertake the rigors of training and caring for a Pokémon.

 

[MattW]

Yeah, that sounds about it... (Except, I'm not sure, are you implying any kind of governing power by saying "regulations" and "stipulates"? I think that important decisions would probably be decided by consensus, simply because from what I have seen, the Pokemon League is a rational organization.)

By the way, while we are on the subject of how the League relates to other presences in the Pokemon world, what about Pokemon Centers? My thought is that the League may have a lot of contributing members who support themselves and don't need to be paid a lot or possibly at all, and so the League would be a productive organization and able to redirect that produce--the League may have some enterprises, as well--and so it would be able to support the Pokemon Center system, which is a kind of "helping body" that is for trainers, I think; that is, though it's run by Pokemon health care professionals, it's tied closely to the interests of trainers, since it helps them, so it's like the Pokemon League in that regard, and I suspect they associate. Since there is a lot of fancy equipment there, I would suspect the Center system would have to either have outside support or engage in some activity which would help fund it that we have no idea about (maybe just accepting funds? But not from individual trainers I wouldn't think, they're all about non-profit and I've never seen Nurse Joy ask for a handout, so many just wealthy individuals could contribute via the proper channels...).

 

[Barb]

By 'regulations' I mean that the League makes up the rules for the games including who can participate; the number of badges needed to enter; how often the games are held, etc.

Pokémon are the lifeblood of this world, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Centers and even the League were supported by taxation.

 

[Jukain]

The concept of a starter pokemon has been largely unclear for me, too, but it would make sense someone of authority would have to decree that you are capable of caring for a pokemon. I've seen different methods for acquiring a starter. First and foremost is by the professor of the region, in which case, there are only three different pokemon that they give trainers to start with. How they select these three pokemon is unknown, but I think there is some system by which they determine what pokemon native to the region is best able to be trained by anyone, evolves twice by level up, and is either Grass, Fire, or Water-type. I am not certain if the professor or the Pokemon League somehow sanctions these starters. The second kind is the pokemon acquired by the trainer, which can be done in two ways: They either go out and somehow catch their own pokemon, or get a pokemon as a gift from someone. This makes just about every pokemon in existence plausible as a starter, although the fanfic world generally frowns upon excessively rare and/or powerful pokemon as starters. (the fossils, pseudo-legends, and other difficult to capture pokemon)

 

[Barb]

I think that the starters are determined by (a) populations in the wild and (b) ease of training. A new trainer is not and should not get a very poweful creature, and seeing this in fanfics makes me scream. You start with a small Pokémon, not a Lugia. However, most trainers don't catch their own until they've been given a starter by one of the professors. It is plausible, though to have a small Pokémon as a pet and then when the child reaches the age of 10, that Pokémon would become the child's starter.

 

[MattW]

Taxation? I don't see any evidence of that, and since the League isn't a governing body they couldn't compell that, which would make anything they're given charity funds, not taxes...

My view as far as the economy is concern is covered partially in the topic on an objective Pokemon canon, but basically, the Pokemon world is booming with natural resources, including the amazing abilities of the Pokemon who inhabit that world, and people generally are good-natured. So they don't have to live in massive cities and have a strict division of labor to be able to enjoy life, they can live in small settlements or often, if they have the means to support themselves, by themselves.

This would also be a partial reason why isolated criminal acts are not very common IMHO, there's no real need to do those kinds of things to support yourself and people seem willing to give you a second chance, though there are people who are greedy and want more than is reasonable (Jessie & James, kinda), or just have a "penchant for evil" (the Fearow guy in the anime was kind of like that, very unrepentant IIRC) you might say. Often many conflicts seem to be simply misunderstandings which are easily remedied.

Sceptile, I don't think any organization would have the authority to say which people are and aren't allowed to train Pokemon, and I haven't seen any reason that there's any widespread compulsion. Again, I don't believe the Pokemon League is any kind of governing body. If children are generally not allowed Pokemon before a certain age, I think that would have to be a cultural norm, like with child labor and prostitution in the U.S. . I use the anime as my main source for my beliefs on this kind of things, so does anyone have any info on how that might work that they've seen in the anime that I haven't? Right now I am assuming that the Pallet Town locals and Professor Oak just decided that together as a general rule, or maybe one person decided it and everyone else just agreed with it. Like Barb says, kids have Pokemon as pets often.

 

[Roses Ablaze]

Just skimming here (so sorry if I sound like an idiot), but maybe the Pokemon League is subsidised?

 

[MattW]

Subsidized by what, though? There's no evidence of any kind of centralized government, and for reasons I've stated before, I personally don't believe there has to be.

(When you get the time, if you feel like it, try reading the whole thing. I'm not saying that to put you down, I just feel like you'd have more to comment about, and I really enjoy discussion of this! )

Two other small ideas I've had about the Pokemon League but which are just ideas on how something things from the video games might make sense in a real world context:

- In the games, traded Pokemon obey you when you get more badges, but Pokemon you catch don't require that proof. The reason this is, is that when you try to catch a Pokemon, you participate in a kind of ritual, and when you succeed in catching a Pokemon it is obligated to recognize your skill, since you have defeated it and skillfully obtained it, and so trusts / obeys you out of respect for your ability. However, traded Pokemon never participated in that ritual, and so they don't have any reason to recognize you or choose to obey you. So why would badges make a difference? Well, if Pokemon had some idea or concept of the Pokemon League and what it meant to earn badges, then they could see that you have badges and use that as a way to judge your worthiness as their trainer. But, stronger Pokemon would have higher standards as to what kind of trainer they would obey, and so for instance, the strongest Pokemon would only obey someone with 8 badges. So, that's how that would work.

- In the games, why is that some gyms seem tougher than others? I would guess that Leaders are told that their battles with aspiring badge-earners are to judge the trainer's skill, not necessarily how strong their Pokemon are, so Leaders would focus more on using their skill to win battles than just exercising the full strength of their Pokemon to defeat challengers, and so by setting the focus of the match as a matter of skill, the Leader and the challengers' skill could necessarily factor in more than the Pokemon's strength. In the games, if we interpret "level" as meaning not just physical strength of Pokemon, but also skill and trust developed between a trainer and his/her Pokemon (it is an RPG!), then this would make sense. Actually I confused myself a little bit with this paragraph but I think I have something here ;-) ...

 

[Roses Ablaze]

Subsidized by what, though? There's no evidence of any kind of centralized government, and for reasons I've stated before, I personally don't believe there has to be.

What about all the police officers? And the fact that they all have the same uniform in all the towns and most of the regions, including the male non-Jenny ones? Also, one thing to consider is currency - the characters mention money occasionally and everywhere they go businesses seem to accept whatever they give, which would only occur if there were a central bank of some kind. Also, Lance is a G-man and the G stands for government.

(When you get the time, if you feel like it, try reading the whole thing. I'm not saying that to put you down, I just feel like you'd have more to comment about, and I really enjoy discussion of this! )

Okay, I've done that.

One thought - do you think it costs money to challenge a gym leader? I've seen that some Gyms are definately wealtheir than others, so maybe they get more challengers?

 

[Barb]

I agree that some of the Centers are subsidized, perhaps through bonds issued by local governments. I'm speculating that this holds true for Pokémon Centers (and the League by extension) in larger cities. It could also be done with private donations.

Just because we don't see evidence of it in the Pokémon anime doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Speculate at will about these things, because that's why we created this forum.

There are, as Roses Ablaze noted, a centralized police force as well as firefighters (remember Ash's Squirtle?). This indicates that there has to be some kind of governmental authority somewhere. It's possible that Team Rocket is somehow involved in the government, considering Giovanni's monetary resources and the fact that he was the Viridian City Gym leader.

 

[Adamant]

- In the games, why is that some gyms seem tougher than others?

Well, as we saw in the Yaz/Kas Gym episode, it appears that gyms have to be within a certain distance from each other, or that you can have one gym in an area populated by so and so many people. Because of this, a lot of strong trainers cannot set up gyms because even stronger trainers have already done so nearby, while weaker trainers may do so if he or she lives in an area where the level of skill is generally much lower.

Even if pretty much everyone around latter gyms in a game could pulverize the first gym leader, they aren't gym leaders due to the fact that some stronger guy nearby is.

 

[Barb]

Some gyms are tougher than others. Lt. Surge was all about proving how strong a Pokémon is in battle, whereas Danny on Navel Island tried to show how skilled a trainer was in working on a team with his Pokémon and completing a survival challenge. Personally, I favor the latter.

 

[Juputoru]

I suspect that the League doesn't need to approve someone just so that they can train Pokemon, but if they want to participate in any League-sanctioned events(including Gym Battles), they would need approval. Of course, there's the question of what happens to trainers that abuse their Pokemon in some way(such as Damien). I imagine that somebody is on the lookout for those people, but who? Would the League have the authority to strip said trainers of their trainer's lisences and to take their Pokemon away from them to prevent further abuse?


I've suspected in the past that Gym Leaders get their money from the trainers they defeat(where else would the money go when you lose(in the games, at least)? Pokemon Center treatment is free, after all...). But this doesn't seem fair to poor trainers and to trainers that are just starting out; the idea of it costing money to challenge a Leader doesn't seem that fair either. Then again, we really haven't seen any poor Pokemon Trainers, but that brings up the question of where they get money from in the first place.

I can see younger trainers getting an allowence from their parents, but what about older ones? It'd make sense for there to be prize money awarded at tournements, and there are probably more of those than we get to see(Pokemon battles seem to be a major form of entertainment in the Pokemon world, after all). Trainers could probably get side jobs, too; we see out favorite TR trio doing that quite a bit(especially around the time of the major League tournements), so why can't law-abiding trainers do the same?

Gym Leaders might get support money from the city they reside in, but another possibility is that they have side jobs. Gyms never seem to have TOO many challengers, so I'm guessing that the Leaders have free time to spare. A good example of this(from the anime) is Erika's perfume outlet; maybe even the shows Daisy, Lily, and Violet put on in Cerulean City(ticket sales!) could fall under this.


I suspect that gym leaders don't just have one set of Pokemon; the Pokemon Falkner used against Ash would probably pulverise a beginning trainer, as an example. They might ask to see which badges the trainer has won already, to get a rough idea of how skilled the trainer is; if something keeps match records for each trainer, the Leader might look at those, too. Then they use a team of Pokemon that would provide an appropriate level of challenge for the challenger.

 

[MattW]

Thanks =) By the way, sorry to everyone that this post is kind of disorganized, I was figuring things out as I went along. =)

I've mentioned that many communities seem to have organized local police nd, in cases of larger cities, firefighters; based on necessity, I'd imagine. Just because they have the same uniforms doesn't mean they work for the government, maybe they just all order them from the same place? Or maybe all the police are connected, that doesn't mean they're part of a larger government, they could just work together. Besides, while I hate to use the poetic license excuse, I don't think the anime people would bother designing a new uniform for every large or significant settlement with police ("oh yes, Azalea town, they have that plaid look, and Indigo Plateau wear hiking boots..." ...don't see that happening =\ ).

Lance is called G-man in the games, right? They games have a lot of references to things don't seem to have any clear evidence of existing, so I interpet this like I interpret the clear definition of the poles as regions of the Pokemon world: it's just a casual reference that was made for sake of convenience, since the people who create the anime/games (and manga to a degree, probably, though I haven't read it) aren't expending a great deal of effort to make a consistent canon (that's an understatement, they're only trying to be non-contradictory, nothing more, from what I can see). For instance, maybe some flavor text writer/translator was given a brief script, and he asked the guy next to him, "The Pokemon League is kinda like the government, right? Would the word G-Man be all right?" and the guy shrugs his shoulders. If you have any real solid research, for instance more detailed original Japanese translation, I would love to hear it, however.

As I outlined in my explanation, my personal belief is that Gyms work with the League so I don't know that they could charge challengers anything when (IMHT, that is, in my humble theory) the League has certified them to be a judge of trainers; what if trainers are short on cash from traveling a ways and can't afford to pay? But like I've been saying, there's a lot of prosperity in the Pokemon world, so the "wealthiness" (I don't see any physical money around--who's to say that they paid for it, maybe a guy and a team of Machokes did the construction work over the weekends out of kindness? I know a church near where I live where people often get together outside of church to help church members who can't afford it with difficult housework (nothing fancy, roofing usually), and I don't see why people in the Pokemon world would be less friendly; generally speaking, people are kinder over there than people generally are in this world, in fact (which may tie back to economic security and the low crime rate, which I've mentioned before). I'd say that anything the Gym gets would come from the contributions of the locals, maybe an occasional wealthy benefactor, and the work of the Gym's members.

However, you're right, I'm not sure about money... Well, if a government does exist, I don't believe that it demands anything from its citizens; I don't see any evidence of a controlling or obvious influence of any government-type organization except ones that operate for organizational purposes in small localities, like the police forces that have been referenced in this discussion many times. You can use "the government is behind it / influences it" to help explain much of what happens within the Pokemon world, but I think there are better explanations which fit in better with what we've seen in the games and the anime (and possibly the manga, haven't read it), which indicates that the lives of the common people are definitely not under the shadow of some impersonal body. What with the (compared to our own world which has a social contract-style government) low crime rate, super-healthy economy, and general good-naturedness of people, I don't think the government would be very necessary. Couldn't some group of economists be running the mint, anyway, as a service? I'm just trying to think outside the box; accountant-types taking the initiative seem less farfetched than the existence of a government that, other than in the case of the monetary system, doesn't seem to be leaving everything to localities, if it even exists.

Barb, so you do believe there's government? Okay, see, I knew there should have been more protest when I postulated that no centralized government existed! ;-) To restate, I believe only small self-governing localities (whose main job would be organization, with controlling institutions forming only out of necessity; police and firefighters for example). Oh and yeah, I know there are firefighters, though I had only mentioned them earlier in this very post before I read yours and am now responding to it... It makes sense. But I don't see why having a widespread organization would necessitate that the organization works for some kind of government. I'm not really familiar with the concept of a "co-op" but I have used that word used many times, maybe that's what word I'm looking for? In any case, people would just need to "co-op"-erate for there to be police working together between cities, there's no extra element needed. By the way, I don't think that Giovanni's status as Leader is anything special, he just built the Gym in Viridian and had the League representative come down and review it; even with Giovanni holding Al Capone-type status, is it such a stretch to say that the League representative was probably fair enough that he/she didn't let those unconfirmed rumors impact the decision to certify that Gym as holding a high standard of skill? There don't have to be any kind of shady dealings.

Oh, Roses Ablaze, I just noticed your comment on money. You're right, I'm not sure about money... Well, if a government does exist, I don't believe that it demands anything from its citizens; I don't see any evidence of a controlling or obvious influence of any government-type organization except ones that operate for organizational purposes in small localities, like the police forces that have been referenced in this discussion many times. You can use "the government is behind it / influences it" to help explain much of what happens within the Pokemon world, but I think there are better explanations which fit in better with what we've seen in the games and the anime (and possibly the manga, haven't read it), which indicates that the lives of the common people are definitely not under the shadow of some impersonal body. What with the (compared to our own world which has a social contract-style government) low crime rate, super-healthy economy, and general good-naturedness of people, I don't think a government would be very necessary. Couldn't some group of economists be running the mint, anyway, as a service? I'm just trying to think outside the box; accountant-types taking the initiative seem less farfetched than the existence of a government that, other than in the case of the monetary system, doesn't seem to be leaving everything to localities, if it even exists.

Adamant, thank you, that's a very good observation... yeah, I was just throwing things out there, your reasoning is definitely cool.

Juputoru, that's what I was thinking. I think that caring and responsible people would protest if they saw a Pokemon being treated and challenge that person to quit what they were doing (just if you and a group of friends saw some guy attacking another guy on the side of the street; well, okay, sometimes people are afraid to get involved in those kinds of things, but pretend you and your friends have a strong sense of justice and the situation is as simple as one person taking advantage of another, no more or less complex).

Oh yeah, and by the way, another thing I was thinking that ties to your talking about playing for money, is that it would make sense if, as in the games, the concept of a "professional trainer" involved playing for money; professional trainers would go around and challenge others to a match, and they'd put up a share of their money for the match, and in that way people would be able to make a living just by training. However, with Pokemon Centers appearing as they are in the anime, it seems as though they're a service to trainers, so that would conflict... It's an interesting thing to think about, and I feel like maybe it could be applied in some way. Same with what you say about Leaders have more than one set of Pokemon, or maybe just playing to a lesser skill level; it doesn't make sense in the context of the anime, but it would make sense in the context of everything else. I have difficulty making a determination of what IMHO an object canon would decide on these issues...

Fun discussion, this is great material.

 

[Barb]

Fun discussion, this is great material.

Agreed. Thanks for starting this.

Barb, so you do believe there's government? Okay, see, I knew there should have been more protest when I postulated that no centralized government existed! To restate, I believe only small self-governing localities (whose main job would be organization, with controlling institutions forming only out of necessity; police and firefighters for example).

I think you might have something here. Perhaps each region (Kanto, Johto, Hoenn) is self-governed? I was thinking something along the lines of city-states. Some of the smaller towns and rural areas that we've seen in the anime don't appear to be governed at all.

Oh and yeah, I know there are firefighters, though I had only mentioned them earlier in this very post before I read yours and am now responding to it... It makes sense. But I don't see why having a widespread organization would necessitate that the organization works for some kind of government. I'm not really familiar with the concept of a "co-op" but I have used that word used many times, maybe that's what word I'm looking for?

I think so. The word 'cooperative' (where we get 'co-op') means designating or of an organization, an apartment house, store, etc., owned and operated for the benefit of members who use its facilities or services. In the case of real estate, the tenants own the land the apartment building is on, but not the apartments themselves (contrasted to a condominium, where the tenants own the apartments but not the land).


In any case, people would just need to "co-op"-erate for there to be police working together between cities, there's no extra element needed. By the way, I don't think that Giovanni's status as Leader is anything special, he just built the Gym in Viridian and had the League representative come down and review it; even with Giovanni holding Al Capone-type status, is it such a stretch to say that the League representative was probably fair enough that he/she didn't let those unconfirmed rumors impact the decision to certify that Gym as holding a high standard of skill? There don't have to be any kind of shady dealings.

I think Giovanni is a very skilled trainer. However, the whole Team Rocket organization as I see it resembles the mafia. They have legitimate businesses in our world, but most of us don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Giovanni owns and runs (or did run) the Viridian City Gym, as well as building the Pokémon theme park seen in "Island of the Giant Pokémon". The money has to come from somewhere, considering all the mechas and agents at his disposal. You're right that there doesn't have to be any shady dealings, but that's the way it seems to me. You could argue that Giovanni is a rich industrialist, much like Rockefeller or J.P. Morgan were in the early days of the 20th century.

 

[MattW]

I think you might have something here. Perhaps each region (Kanto, Johto, Hoenn) is self-governed? I was thinking something along the lines of city-states. Some of the smaller towns and rural areas that we've seen in the anime don't appear to be governed at all.

You had thought that there could be one government for multiple regions? That thought hadn't even crossed my mind, actually; one government per region was the most I had assumed people were believing. But, it's not what I believe; I don't think that there's any government above those that direct individual settlements. I would say that "government" or maybe I should call it "organizations" is structured out of necessity; as you say, some of the smaller settlements seem to have no government at all. And with government being only organized out of necessity, a larger government wouldn't be organized, then. I mean, if you think about it, over here governments over large areas often form, IMHO, because people want to consolidate their strength, whether because only that way might they have enough resources to provide for everyone, or to defend against a rival power, or because some other conflict or need arises (or because people want to create positions of power for themselves, but we don't see that happening very much; and if someone did want that for themselves, IMO most people in the Pokemon world wouldn't really acknowledge it or allow it to influence them, I suspect). But since conflicts exist only at a very personal level, except in the case of organized crime (which seems to manifest at a personal level, at least), greater institutions shouldn't need to form.

Oh, so that's what a co-op is... yeah, often recently I'm writing something and I start to write a word and I realize I don't know what it means, and then I look it up and it fits the circumstance even though I wasn't really at all sure what it meant until I looked it up. Just goes to show that even in your late teens you can still learn the language the same way a child does. =)

Aye, there could be definitely be some corruption in the League (though I haven't seen it, I would imagine that there are a few discontents or "bad seeds"; I don't think human nature of the people in the Pokemon world is completely contrary to human nature of people over here, but there's just less environmental factors that would contribute to someone being influenced to turn out like that), but just in the case of that Gym, I was thinking that it wouldn't be the only explanation. Very cool.

 

[Barb]

As far as human nature goes, there seems to be an unwritten code of conduct in the Pokémon world that obviates the need for a centralized government. People in the Pokémon world are genuinely kind to each other and are eager to help when and where necessary. With a few exceptions (Damian, from the Charmander ep; the three guys beating Lapras), the people in that world are far more civilized than those in our world.

 

[MattW]

Aye, and call me a Marxist, but I blame the economy for influencing the culture =)