The Shift in Demographic Appeal in Black and White

[Silktree]

Junichi Masuda recently gave a 90-minute lecture (which can be watched here) in Tottori about the "culture strategy" aspect of the Pokémon games. Apparently, the highlight of the lecture was Masuda's statement that some features in Black and White were intended to appeal to university students, but the same features had a negative effect on the games' appeal to children.

One of the examples Masuda gave was the introduction of kanji support. This understandably appealed to adult Japanese players more than it did to children, but I personally find it surprising that some children apparently took issue with an optional feature; they could choose between katakana (the top option) and kanji at the beginning of the game. Complaining about that is akin to boys complaining about the existence of a female player character. As I see it, the only feature that prioritizes adults over children is the more complex plot (which I actually find a bit overrated). To me, Black and White were just a small step toward having a story that doesn't revolve around the standard badge quest, but I can see why not every kid necessarily liked that. Then again, the games were rather linear even in comparison to previous generations.

Masuda said that it is a challenge to maintain the appeal to children while continuing to draw more adults, so I'm curious to know how Game Freak intend to do that beginning with B2W2. I haven't actually watched the lecture due to its length and the language barrier; if anyone could do so and shed more light on Masuda's perspective, that would be most appreciated.

 

[coolcatkim22]

I think that there are ways in which a game can appeal to both kids and adults. However, I think Pokemon is going the wrong way about it. Especially since, the games (at least to me they did) always could appeal to adults.
Sure, the story was very basic and there weren't many adult themes in it but that never stopped any adult based game. I have seen many adult based games have a very simple story and very few adult themes yet they were popular. Why? Because they were fun and easy to understand.

I don't understand the problems with the type of Japanese characters or the female character option. Maybe if I had more understanding of why I'd get it but I really don't see the problem.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

For goodness sake, Masuda, don't make Pokemon have a complex plot like Metal Gear, keep it as simple as possible. Just look at Metroid Other M; it tried to have a deeper storyline, followed by great gameplay, but it only created a broken base of the series. Goes to show that story is never the main focus in video games.

 

[Slenderman]

Why would they complain about a female option? You don't HAVE to pick it. Same with the Kanji thing. Japanese boys need to

Spoiler

 

[Silktree]

Just for the record, I brought up gender choice (which is a staple feature at this point) as an analogy; I don't think Japanese boys actually have a problem with that feature. In fact, Masuda didn't necessarily imply that they were bothered by the kanji support, either. I'm not sure that Masuda even knows why Black and White are less appealing to kids than their predecessors were, but he does know that's the case judging from statistics such as the distribution of Nintendo Club registrants.

 

[FinalArcadia]

I don't understand why he feels the need to appeal to both demographics consciously anyway. The series sells like hotcakes; I don't see that changing anytime soon. Pokemon won't have a deep plotline for awhile, and I don't think that matters much to adults. It's Pokemon. You play it to get the satisfaction of training adorable or menacing creatures and watching them grow and evolve. Kids will like the designs. Adults will like extensive training and creating superb movelists and all that, in addition to playing something they liked when they were young.

Black and White sold really, REALLY well, didn't they? Does it really matter if less kids got it? A sale is a sale to me. The anime is still going strong, merchandise is bought even by people who AREN'T in the usual targeted demographic... I just don't think a conscious appeal to both kids and adults is necessary. What happens, happens.

If that made any sense. It made sense in my head, but I'm not so sure typed out.

 

[Xenidal]

What's the point of kanji in video games? Video games have always been playable even when all the text is in hiragana. Does kanji just make it easier to read? I'd think it something like a video game with low-resolution characters it'd be a bad idea to use kanji, simply because a really complicated kanji constrained to a 8*16 or 16*16 box would be unreadable. But I don't know Japanese so I don't know if that'd be a problem or not... maybe you can distinguish the kanji by their general shape without needing to see exactly what it looks like or soemthing.

 

[Silktree]

Black and White sold really, REALLY well, didn't they? Does it really matter if less kids got it? A sale is a sale to me.

As soon as Black and White were announced, Masuda expressed his hope that the games would surpass Diamond and Pearl's sales, which they have yet to do and probably won't (at least not by a wide margin). To a certain extent, he achieved what he wanted as far as the adult demographic was concerned, but the effect on sales was negated by whatever it was that made the games less popular among kids.

It's completely understandable that Masuda has higher standards than maintaining the status quo forever. The franchise used to be more popular 12-16 years ago, so there is definitely room for improvement.

 

[Purellian]

If you know how to read kanji, it can make reading a whole sentence much easier and clearer, as a lot of Japanese words are spelled the same in hiragana. The kanji clarifies which word is meant. However, Japanese kids learn kanji gradually as they go through school, and they only "finish" learning them once they finish high school, and even then there are still tons more that they can learn. This means that a lot of younger kids, who have only just started learning a few kanji, will not be able to read them, which would be annoying. Since it is optional, of course, I don't understand why it would be an issue. I actually really enjoyed playing with kanji on my Black version. I liked how different characters used kanji differenty, like how Iris used less kanji than the adults.

 

[El_]

As long as its successful then it won't matter. Personally, I loved the shift and the storyline focus in BW, its because of that BW are actually now my favorite in the series. Whether D/P sold more or not isn't really an issue, I find this generation alot more fun and interesting than the previous. Perhaps for me their intended demographic struck home, but I just simply enjoyed them that much.

I also believe that they "could" be shifting the PC away from a standard badge quest. For me the evidence for this lies in the character Cheren and how he was developed. To me, in every other game especially the first few games you basically were Cheren, and the only real goal or primary goal that mattered was the badge quest and becoming Champion. In BW that idea is deconstructed, and it asks a little more of what being a trainer is all about. The more they skake things up like this the better and more fresher the franchise will become.

As for complaining about trivial things like Kanji, which is optional anyways? Meh, people are going to find things to complain about always no matter how big or small. I expect for the sales not to be affected by such nonsense, especially since this is Pokemon we are talking about.

 

[Garren]

For goodness sake, Masuda, don't make Pokemon have a complex plot like Metal Gear, keep it as simple as possible. Just look at Metroid Other M; it tried to have a deeper storyline, followed by great gameplay, but it only created a broken base of the series. Goes to show that story is never the main focus in video games.

From what I've read around the net, and experienced myself, the problem wasn't that Other M had a deeper storyline...it was that the storyline took Samus, gaming's first lady, and turned her into a weak, motherly character who depended on Adam for EVERYTHING. There's that infamous scene, for example, where Samus literally freaks out and is unable to battle Ridley despite, you know, never having that problem before. Not to mention the dialouge THE BABY THE BABY THE BABY was horrible.

I agree that sometimes stories in games can be a negative, but that's mainly for action games. I think an RPG should aspire to have a better story, though. People didn't like the story in Mario Sunshine much, since it was a platformer, but everyone loves Paper Mario 2's story, so I think it depends on the genre.

This topic reminds me of that weird propaganda I saw spread around the fanbase pre-BW that Pokemon Black and White would skewer to an older audience, the main evidence of this being the older PCs...but was this ever said by an official source? Hilda and Hilbert don't look any older to me than any of the other protagonists, and it didn't factor into the game at all. I didn't feel personally, even with the slightly deeper plot-line, that Black and White was aimed at a different audience than previous games.

 

[Silktree]

This topic reminds me of that weird propaganda I saw spread around the fanbase pre-BW that Pokemon Black and White would skewer to an older audience, the main evidence of this being the older PCs...but was this ever said by an official source?

Masuda did say something along those lines (but not quite) early on: "Kids of elementary school, junior high, high school, college and even adult players can enjoy this game. We’ve changed the way of development and aimed for all generations."

I didn't feel personally, even with the slightly deeper plot-line, that Black and White was aimed at a different audience than previous games.

I didn't feel a dramatic difference that would explain the apparent shift.

 

[Garren]

I just read Masuda's quote as, well, advertisement to try and take advantage of how Pokemon has maintained a primary and periphery audience over the years, not to mention that quote says "all generations", not "more adult". I'd say it did move a bit into slightly mature themes with the whole black and white morality issue, but even then it was basically your generic philosophies most kids learn when they're in middle school.

Fans just took that and ran with it I guess because people need to justify their enjoyment of shows and games aimed at a younger audience by trying to exaggerate its adult elements.

 

[Slenderman]

I'm not entirely sure why the game didn't sell as well with kids. Maybe the plotline was more mature or something? That could be it, but D/P/Pt's plotline was at the same level as B/W's I think. I can't find a reason that it didn't sell as well. B/W had about the same level of maturity as in D/P/Pt. I think the older portion of the fanbase liked it because it made it easier to battle and trade.

 

[El_]

I still remember alot of gaming blogs saying how Diamond/Pearl was alot closer to the original Red/Blue for them, so perhaps theres a reasoning in that as to why D/P sold more. As for maturity, I don't see how kids can feel alienated by B/W's plot. Its more complex, but its not Matrix level concepts.

It could also be the timing for some reason. D/P were like a resurrection for a bit of fans I think, and it was described like that when the games first came out.

 

[xyzman]

Wouldn't it make more sense to make these games even more adult-oriented? If Pokemon sales were the highest in first generation, then targeting people who enjoyed it back in 1996 and now in their late 20s-30s (and have more funds to purchase both games and consoles) would be the best bet. Make the games more mature, include harsh reality and humor and people would be interested just by all the controversy that would be there.

As you can see, the fact that the whole series is thought of as children-oriented bothers Masuda (and Game Freak) very much. My friends think that Pokemon is shit designed for elementary school kids. If game rating increases to T, Japanese kids would still be able to play (as their culture is less sheltered as compared to Western one) so the sales won't go down much, but that would also advertise that game isn't for children anymore for the rest of the world. And 20+ vs. 6-10 segment in US/EU is a very good trade-off IMO.

Yes, we all enjoyed the slight bashing of general "beat all gyms - became a champion" idea in BW (as Cheren's approach is clearly shown in negative light), but this is not enough to make me or other people buy 3DS just for Gen6 Pokemon games. Or to pre-order and import BW2 the same way as I did with Pokemon Pearl. Right now Game Freak just promotes piracy: games are interesting enough to download, but not enough to spend money on them.

 

[Garren]

Wouldn't it make more sense to make these games even more adult-oriented? If Pokemon sales were the highest in first generation, then targeting people who enjoyed it back in 1996 and now in their late 20s-30s (and have more funds to purchase both games and consoles) would be the best bet. Make the games more mature, include harsh reality and humor and people would be interested just by all the controversy that would be there.

As you can see, the fact that the whole series is thought of as children-oriented bothers Masuda (and Game Freak) very much. My friends think that Pokemon is shit designed for elementary school kids. If game rating increases to T, Japanese kids would still be able to play (as their culture is less sheltered as compared to Western one) so the sales won't go down much, but that would also advertise that game isn't for children anymore. And 20+ vs. 6-10 segment in US/EU is a very good trade-off IMO.

Yes, we all enjoyed the slight bashing of general "beat all gyms - became a champion" idea in BW (as Cheren's approach is clearly shown in negative light), but this is not enough to make me or other people buy 3DS just for Gen6 Pokemon games. Or to pre-order and import BW2 the same way as I did with Pokemon Pearl. Right now Game Freak just promotes piracy: games are interesting enough to download, but not enough to spend money on them.

1. Not all those kids who bought the games back in Gen 1 still play the series. It'd be stupid to rely on nostalgia alone to sell a series, you need to entice new players as well to expand the player-base.

2. I don't think that the point of this is that Masuda is bothered that the series is child-oriented at all. Rather, he wants to appeal to a broad audience, not shift from one extreme to the other and completely eliminate the younger fanbase. And I'm pretty sure Japan has its share of "protect children" mindset, it's not as liberal as you'd think.

3. No.

 

[Blue Dragon]

As some have said it doesn't really matter at all with the amount of sales the franchise is getting. Pokemon to me will always be enjoyable, as long as they don't change the basic premise of catching, training, and battling with Pokemon.

 

[Jukain]

It is known that the sales have been getting less and less with each passing generation. That B/W did not do as well as D/P almost makes sense to me. It's news to me that more adults are getting it than kids. Wasn't the same thing said of the spinoff? It's a more significant thing to say of the main series, though. I don't think they did anything wrong, and it even puzzles me what exactly alienated the children. For them, it makes little difference since Pokemon doesn't have the stigma it has here. I think they found a healthy balance, but they didn't seem to think so. If they take a step back, it will offend a lot of people, but the only thing I can think of is they underestimated what children can handle, and perhaps made the main game too easy.

 

[The Outrage]

It is known that the sales have been getting less and less with each passing generation.

Except the part where sales increased far beyond GSC's total in Gen IV even without taking into account HgSs. Oh, and Platinum getting distinguished as most pirated game of the year a few years back.

but I personally find it surprising that some children apparently took issue with an optional feature; they could choose between katakana (the top option) and kanji at the beginning of the game.

Not that surprising when you look how the fandom reacts to optional things like evolving an old Pokemon to a new one (for example, Togekiss apparently ruined Togetic's aesthetic appeal to some people)

Masuda said that it is a challenge to maintain the appeal to children while continuing to draw more adults, so I'm curious to know how Game Freak intend to do that beginning with B2W2

I don't think the issue should be drawing in more adults so much as keeping the old fans who grow up.

Right now we're looking at it as if Pokemon did something that alienated its current base despite making things so much easier with its linear plot line. Perhaps its not so much what Pokemon changed, but its relatively unchanging nature (barring the sequels, even the 'innovations' in BW weren't that big). Really, it may just be that the taste of children changed and Pokemon's direction didn't follow it.