The team that won the Bulbagarden Fall Tournament 2009

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Well the Bulbagarden Fall Tournament is over with, and through some luck and some very tough matches I came out the victor. The team I used has a very simple premise, the offensive power of Dragon types and the ability of Steel types to take Ice and Dragon attacks, and the power of Magnezone to remove the opposing teams of other Steels so I can sweep with my Dragons.

Heatran @ Focus Sash
252 Speed / 252 SpAtk / 4 Atk
Ability: Flash Fire
Naive Nature (+Speed -SpDef)
-Fire Blast
-Stealth Rock
-Earth Power
-Explosion

Pretty simple lead, I try to get Stealth Rock up and go from there. Naive is for keeping the power of Explosion up and for being able to take opposing Outrages better as it is much stronger than Dragon Pulse.

Kingdra @ Lum Berry
252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Ability: Swift Swim
Adamant Nature (+Atk -Speed)
-Dragon Dance
-Substitute
-Waterfall
-Outrage

Kingdra's Water type is so helpful in beating Steels that I can't seem to get rid of. Substitute helps me in so many ways, I can Sub on the switch and get a free attack, I can Sub versus a status user and get a free attack, and even has some synergy with Lum Berry versus fast Thunder Wave/Will-O-Wisp users.

Salamence @ Choice Band
252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Ability: Intimidate
Jolly Nature (+Speed -SpAtk)
-Outrage
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge

Mence is one of the main attacking forces, a Choice Band Outrage does so much to everything, even things that resist it. I usually start the game using Dragon Claw to scout for Steel types, if they have a Steel I run to Magnezone to trap and kill, if they don't have a Steel I remember that for later and Outrage the next time Mence is in.

Latias @ Leftovers
252 Speed / 128 SpAtk / 128 HP
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature (+Speed -Atk)
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Refresh
-Dragon Pulse

Latias gives me a different look other than Outrage, I can switch into quite a few things I wouldn't switch Salamence into, like Infernape, Starmie, and Zapdos, and be able to Calm Mind and hit them really hard while keeping my HP high with Recover and not allowing things like Toxic to shut me down with Refresh.

Scizor @ Leftovers
232 Speed / 252 Atk / 24 HP
Ability: Technician
Adamant Nature (+Atk -SpAtk)
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Swords Dance
-U-Turn

Swords Dance plus U-Turn seems silly, but when this thing is in early game I am usually just U-Turning straight to Salamence or Latias, but at the end game I Swords Dance and pick things off with Bullet Punch.

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
252 Speed / 252 SpAtk / 4 Atk
Ability: Magnet Pull
Naive Nature (+Speed -SpDef)
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Flash Canon
-Explosion

Magnezone makes the team work by trapping and dealing with Steels that get in the way of my Dragon sweeps, it also uses a decently strong and fast Explosion to something that might be causing me problems.

Well that's the team that won the Bulbagarden Fall Tournament, not much to say other than that it performed to expectations and I really enjoyed using it and participating in the tournament.
 
Heatran with a focus sash? Huh, never would have considered that.
 
i'm not gonna lie, the typing on this team is obscene. the only types you have represented are Fire, Steel, Dragon, Water, Flying, Psychic, Bug and Electric. powerful ice-type pokemon such as weavile and mamoswine will rip through your team with STAB ice shard and Earthquake/Brick Break. Scarfed dragon types such as flygon and latias can easily come in for a quick kill if they predict right, especially if you've already shown most of your team. you definitely need to work on something that will absorb the eventual earthquakes, ice shards, and fire blasts thrown your way. For this, i suggest a dual-screening Bronzong. This doesn't solve the typing issue, but if you switch it out for either scizor or kingdra, it can sponge all of your weaknesses, only being weak to fire-type attacks, and if you keep heatran alive, you can always use him for those. i'd post a complete rating, but i'm currently on a wii. Anyway, all criticism aside, congratulations on winning the Fall '09 Tourney.
 
Congrats on winning, though I must say this is the very same team I faced against Batpig. I really mean exact as in same move sets and everything. As far as weakness go, I can see DD Mence being an issue after it manages to get a boost, though the only real chance it gets is against Magnezone locked in HP Fire or Salamence locked in Earthquake. But once it does, then it will procede to do quite a number. You would have to play around it with your Mences Intimidate, sr, and Scizor's Bullet Punch, but it's a threat nonetheless. DD Kingdra, the same set you have also has the potential to cause problems, though to a lesser extent. The biggest weakness though, would be Sub Machamp. After getting behind sub, he's protected from Intimidate and can procede to OHKO 4/6 members while dealing serious damage to Kingdra and Scizor with Dynamic Punch. Your best bet here would be to sack some guys to get rid of its Sub and just not give up oppurtunities for it to set up later in match. Mamoswine looks like he can be a problem, especially if Scizor is out of the picture. No one can actually switch in on him, as everyone is OHKOed by a move except for maybe Kingdra who faints to a combo of EQuake followed by Ice Shard. AgiliGross with Ice Punch also seems to be a clear threat. I don't see much else but yeah, good team overall.
 
Hey man, I like your team, but you should consider Psycho Shift over Refresh on Latias. It helps you alot in some cases.
 
^But then Latias wouldn't be able to set up on Blissey, which is the entire purpose of Refresh. The only benefit Psycho Shift has is burning random Scizors which isn't needed since he has Magnezone and the fact that Rotom-a aren't used lowers the chance of w-o-w being used in the first place.
 
Nice try, but your team is incredibly weak to this:

Heatran @ Focus Sash
252 Speed / 252 SpAtk / 4 Atk
Ability: Flash Fire
Naive Nature (+Speed -SpDef)
-Fire Blast
-Stealth Rock
-Earth Power
-Explosion

Kingdra @ Lum Berry
252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Ability: Swift Swim
Adamant Nature (+Atk -Speed)
-Dragon Dance
-Substitute
-Waterfall
-Outrage

Salamence @ Choice Band
252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Ability: Intimidate
Jolly Nature (+Speed -SpAtk)
-Outrage
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge

Latias @ Leftovers
252 Speed / 128 SpAtk / 128 HP
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature (+Speed -Atk)
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Refresh
-Dragon Pulse

Scizor @ Leftovers
232 Speed / 252 Atk / 24 HP
Ability: Technician
Adamant Nature (+Atk -SpAtk)
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Swords Dance
-U-Turn

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
252 Speed / 252 SpAtk / 4 Atk
Ability: Magnet Pull
Naive Nature (+Speed -SpDef)
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Flash Canon
-Explosion
Click to expand...
 
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...what?

Are you saying the team is weak to itself?
 
If the team is weak to itself, it's also strong against itself, meaning it counters what it is weak against automatically.
 
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This team has great potential overall and the fact that it combines only steel and dragon-type Pokemon makes it very original.
 
I think what Troggy is trying to say is this:

Let's call the team "Team A"

Team A > Team A-- Troggy's statement

Mathematically, that is impossible-- 2, for example, cannot be greater than 2.

But let's take into consideration the second law of thermodynamics, which states that as time passes, the entropy of a closed system increases. Let's call the entropy value of Team A K

K = XJ

Where "x" is the originality coeffecient and J is the power inherent in a team.

K = x (Team A)-- substitution

Using a series of complex calculations, x is decued to be 15.

K= 15TeamA-- substitution

Now, let's take a look at Troggy's statement, but using the calculated entropy equation

15TeamA > 15TeamA

Let's call that whole inequality "O".

Take Team B, a team filled with one or two dragons and several cooler pokemon. The Originality coeffecient in these kinds of teams is significantly higher, remember.

Take, for example, a team built around Rhyperior. The equation for THIS team is:

K = 17287827817382637634826981092407491724612471094012744J

As you can see, the entropy value of this team is significantly higher. Call the above equation OMG and compare equation OMG with our inequality "O"

O: 15TeamA>15TeamA
OMG: K = 17287827817382637634826981092407491724612471094012744J

Because of such a vast difference in entropy, to have any chance of winning against TeamA, one must use, paradoxically, TeamA. The originality coeffecient is VASTLY lowered in such a situation, which i feel is Troggy's point.

Cheers.
 
Nitrous: while your understanding of mathematics seems strangely suspect, I do believe you understand what I was trying to say. I find it very useful that you brought up the 'Originality' coefficient. In early stages, this number did not have an explicit relationship to team power. However, in light of new research, the Originality of a given team is related to team Power by the following:

Team Power = 1 / O

As anyone with an understanding of limits can understand, as the Originality coefficient decreases, the Team Power increases greatly. For the simplicity of discussion, the Originality coefficient may not be 0, although the team posted in this thread has an Originality value that is not statistically different even out to 25 decimal places (I believe your calculation of 15 is somewhat incorrect).

In the previous example, a team using Rhyperior was shown to have an unusually high entropy value. However, this corresponds to a large Originality coefficient. When inputting this into the above equation, it yields the following:

1 / (500) = Futile

Thus, this team's power is futile in comparison to the team above with an exceedingly low Originality coefficient.
 
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Lol, I must say, that whole mathematical stuff means nothing when you factor in luck and prediction.
 
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