(Theory) Good vs Evil and A Death Mechanic

[NPR]

Edit: None of your Pokemon would every die permanently. I have to mention this in the first few sentences, because there seems to be a misconception about this. Please, if you are going to comment, don't be a jerk and flame about how the idea is inconceivable. Read the post first, thanks.

As stated in another thread, the idea of limit breaks might be a good idea. I believe that since this game seems to be trying out a darker feel that a death mechanic might be a good idea to implement with something like a limit break.

First, it has already been established that Pokemon CAN in fact die. This is from the legend about the dog trio and Ho-oh. In the same legend however, it also proved that Pokemon can in fact be reborn as well. Keep this in mind as I explain how a death system might actually work in a Pokemon game.

This deadly ability would only be usable once your Pokemon reach a certain level, and even then it is still only optional. It will first be introduced as a concept when the evil team of the game kills another trainer's Pokemon. The evil team then claims that they can get their Pokemon back if they join the evil team, which has a way of reviving dead Pokemon. There is a hitch though, they no longer have their spirit/soul/heart/whatever. This is how the evil team starts to take over in this game. They could be using some legendary Pokemon, or an evil machine, or whatever really. I don't think it would matter. This will make their Pokemon much more durable, making it harder to knock them out/ defeat them. Also, kind of like in coliseum, the evil Pokemon you kill are purified somehow.

Anyway, at some point in the game you encountered some legendary Pokemon that you gain the trust of, or maybe you get some special power. This will help you revive your Pokemon if they are killed. Maybe you prove you are pure of heart by trying to save your Pokemon from being killed or something. Anyway, because of this, your main character can now go about his business without having his Pokemon killed off.
This is the beginning of the good vs evil thing.

So now, you it is a bit later in the game. You have the option of using your limit break abilities whenever you want, but it makes you eviler/changes the ending/changes the way your Pokemon fight/the way people see you in the game. Something would happen that would be negative, unless you use in against the evil team.

The other protagonists in the game can then go on their rants about the importance of a soul/heart/spirit and all the crud. Which gives the kiddy good vs evil feel back. (Maybe the evil leader could be Cyrus or something again... this is kind of sounding like him.)

Finally, the Champion of the Elite Four would be the evil team leader, but nobody knew this. By now you have already destroyed his plans, and he wants revenge against you. So in this fight he uses his limit breaks with his soulless Pokemon and stuff.
(I would want the entire league to do that, but then you would have dead Pokemon that can't normally be revived with you as you go through the other battles, which is kind of unfair.

This would work very well in the Pokemon universe as a story, without breaking the way the game works. It would still have all of its strategy, but it would just have one new extra mechanic. That can be used when you battle your friends because they can revive their Pokemon as well. Plus, it could finally balance out the happiness mechanic. If your Pokemon die, they will be seriously annoyed at you. The same thing goes for if you make them kill another Pokemon. This could make it a lot harder to max out happiness, as well as maxing out frustration.

 

[IceBlue]

You do know that anyone that can read can play this with ease, right??

Death is not a good concept in a video game that 6 year olds can play. That's why pokemon faint when you beat them.

 

[Black Knightz]

So they die, but you don't lose them forever?... So is it basically the same thing as them getting knocked out? Sorry if I'm not getting it.

 

[NPR]

You do know that anyone that can read can play this with ease, right??

Death is not a good concept in a video game that 6 year olds can play. That's why pokemon faint when you beat them.

Exactly why yours can never die. The only Pokemon that actually die are those of your opponent and there is usually a consequence system when that happens to show that killing is wrong.

@BK
Yeah, pretty much. It just makes them lose a ton more happiness than usual. Plus, when you are the one doing the killing, they will also lose happiness. The game will still work just fine and how/when you can use such powerful attacks would be balanced out so as not to make it broken.

 

[Black Knightz]

Okay, thanks for clarifying. It's an interesting idea, but considering Nintendo, death might be a touch too dark for a main theme.

 

[Falconwing]

If there is going to be death in a pokemon game, it'd better be Fire Emblem death. Since no one wants that, no death.

The games have always been good vs. evil.

 

[Keegman]

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE.

Eff Fire Emblem death.

 

[Ty Rufus]

Hmm. The idea sounds very creative, I'll admit. However, as said above, it might not work if the games are intended for a young audience. I mean, the death of Pokemon is mentioned throughout the games, though is never shown or has some connection to the plot. Either way, we'll find out soon.

 

[cowboy dan]

Fire emblem pissed me off.

oh yeah no death.

p.s. fire emblem is still massively fun.

 

[BBHood]

Goddammit, you just have to go and remind me of how badly I want a new Fire Emblem game to release already. Feels like it's been forever. I like the death system in Fire Emblem. makes it harder, gives more challenge. I like that. I like being required to think when I play.

 

[RedSapphire]

You do know that anyone that can read can play this with ease, right??

Death is not a good concept in a video game that 6 year olds can play. That's why pokemon faint when you beat them.

True, but the fact that Cubone wears its dead mother's skull is mentioned in almost half of the game's PokeDex entries. That's extremely depressing.


This concept of death I actually approve of. It could help realize my dream of a baby Kanghaskhan Pokemon that evolves into Kangaskhan if its mother is alive or Cubone if she dies. Ah, my good old dreams.

 

[Zeta]

I remember in the first generation, Sugimori bragged that since Pokemon had no death in it, it was appropriate for younger players in a way he didn't think Tamagotchi and Monster Farm were.

So no death.

And colors does not imply a darker feel. We've seen nothing of the game that would even slightly imply that.

 

[DannyDistraught]

You do know that anyone that can read can play this with ease, right??

Death is not a good concept in a video game that 6 year olds can play. That's why pokemon faint when you beat them.

IceBlue has a good point. Death seems like an inappropriate factor to add to any Pokemon game. However in some parts of Pokemon games, and in certain character dialogue, they almost vaguely give us an idea that they do die without giving us anymore detail of a Pokemon's afterlife to keep it appropriate for the targeted audience.

 

[Falconwing]

Which is perfectly fine.

 

[Rellik]

I believe that since this game seems to be trying out a darker feel that a death mechanic might be a good idea to implement with something like a limit break.

I'm sorry, what? Where did you get that from? The fact that one of the versions is called Black? Please.

What you're describing is essentially the Shadow mechanic from the GCN games, just taken to an unnecessary extreme. There's no way that this will ever make it into any Pokemon game. Hell, this wouldn't even make it into PokeSpe.

And for the record, this isn't a "theory" by any sense of the word. It's a mechanic that you thought up. That's all.

 

[NPR]

I'm sorry, what? Where did you get that from? The fact that one of the versions is called Black? Please.

What you're describing is essentially the Shadow mechanic from the GCN games, just taken to an unnecessary extreme. There's no way that this will ever make it into any Pokemon game. Hell, this wouldn't even make it into PokeSpe.

And for the record, this isn't a "theory" by any sense of the word. It's a mechanic that you thought up. That's all.

Theory: An unproven conjecture; An expectation of what should happen, barring unforeseen circumstances

Also, Pokemon Special has had this for a while actually. The finishing blow that is given by the evil teams a lot of the time is exactly like this, except they die for good and don't get revived. Giovanni cuts Magmars in half! Next, I do realize that this is somewhat like the shadow mechanic, which I liked, but it was not refined very well.

The games are definitely trying to get darker, the first pokemon to be relieved was Z an evil trickster like Pokemon. Next, we can point to the city scape being dark and gloomy and HUGE. We could also look at the prior games which hate plots based solely around destroying the world so that the soul would be destroyed. Not exactly the most kid friendly stuff out there. While I admit it is an unlikely way for the franchise to go, I believe this is how it should be if Pokemon was truly going to redefine itself this generation.

 

[Falconwing]

Let's also not forget Cyrus exiling himself to hell and Giovanni committing suicide.

 

[Zeta]

I believe this is how it should be if Pokemon was truly going to redefine itself this generation.

Oh yeah!~

Let's also not forget Cyrus exiling himself to hell and Giovanni committing suicide.

I hope that's sarcasm!

 

[Rellik]

Theory: An unproven conjecture; An expectation of what should happen, barring unforeseen circumstances

Conjecture: A proposition that is unproven but appears correct and has not been disproven.

Clearly that isn't the case here. Yes, your idea has not been unproven or disproven, but there isn't any evidence to hint towards it being correct either. All you're basing this on is your opinion that the games are becoming "darker".

Also, Pokemon Special has had this for a while actually. The finishing blow that is given by the evil teams a lot of the time is exactly like this, except they die for good and don't get revived. Giovanni cuts Magmars in half!

Yes, PokeSpe does have the occasional death scene. However they're few and far-between, and are never a central story point. (With the possible exception of the Lavender Town arc in RGB Chapter. It's been a while since I read that arc, so I can't remember if they included the dead Marowak into it.)

Next, I do realize that this is somewhat like the shadow mechanic, which I liked, but it was not refined very well.

Then refine the mechanic. Don't take something that's already been thought of and push it to unnecessary extremes just for the sake of being dark and edgy.

The games are definitely trying to get darker, the first pokemon to be relieved was Z an evil trickster like Pokemon.

I'll agree with you that Zoroark is an evil trickster, but only in the sense that it's Type is Dark (Which is called Evil-Type in the Japanese version.) and that it's got illusory powers. However, to imply that it's malevolently evil at this point is to simply take it too far. As we know, just because a Pokemon is Evil-Type doesn't mean it's actually evil. And while it's true that it's being billed as the antagonist in the upcoming movie, that movie hasn't been released yet. Mewtwo and Arceus both spent most of their movies as antagonists, only to flip sides at the end.

Next, we can point to the city scape being dark and gloomy and HUGE.

Really? So Celadon, Goldenrod, and Hearthome are all "dark and gloomy?" Sorry, no. Cities have been in every Pokemon Game since GenI, and none of them have ever been described as anything but fun, happy places with lots of people and Pokemon.

We could also look at the prior games which hate plots based solely around destroying the world so that the soul would be destroyed. Not exactly the most kid friendly stuff out there.

Ok, sure, maybe DPPt were a little darker than what we've seen in the last three Gens, but that's still not saying much. I still wouldn't call them "dark." In fact, the whole "bad guys want to destroy the world" shtick was actually pretty common for action-based media aimed at young boys. It's a huge leap from this common Saturday-morning-cartoon storyline to what's essentially animal slaughter and zombification.

While I admit it is an unlikely way for the franchise to go, I believe this is how it should be if Pokemon was truly going to redefine itself this generation.

Personally, it sounds to me like you're just trying to make a kid-friendly franchise less childish.

 

[BBHood]

The games are definitely trying to get darker, the first pokemon to be relieved was Z an evil trickster like Pokemon. Next, we can point to the city scape being dark and gloomy and HUGE. We could also look at the prior games which hate plots based solely around destroying the world so that the soul would be destroyed. Not exactly the most kid friendly stuff out there. While I admit it is an unlikely way for the franchise to go, I believe this is how it should be if Pokemon was truly going to redefine itself this generation.

Nothing and I mean NOTHING has pointed towards these games beign darker. AT ALL.

First Pokemon Zoroark is a trickster? So what? So are basically any other dark type Pokemon already existing, and the back stories to already existing ghost Pokemon are darker/kinda scary. Like Drifloon kidnapping kids by pretending to be a normal balloon and floating away with them when they grab on, to do who knows what with them. Zoroark is not hinting at a "darker" approach to the games,


The city scape is NOT gloomy or dark in any way. It's just a city. No different than Saffron or Goldenrod. It's a city, nothing more. Nothing hints to it being gloomy or dark. The graphics aren't darker even, they are the same as every other game to date. Lavender Town in R/G/B/Y was gloomier and darker.

Where the FUCK did you get this world's soul being destroyed bullshit? Just wtf? And the previous games D/P/Pt had Cyrus trying to destroy the world then recreate it, so the previous games didn't "hate plots based solely around destroying the world."

NOTHING has pointed to the game being dark in the slightest.