TM Corner

[Alola]

Alola everyone! Below is the most current list of TMs in Generation 7. Do you think this is an efficient list?Are there any choices you think shouldn't be a TM? Any moves that you would like to be a TM instead? Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Feel free to talk about past TM & HM lists as well.

Generation VII
# Move Type Cat.
01 Work Up Normal Status
02 Dragon Claw Dragon Physical
03 Psyshock Psychic Special
04 Calm Mind Psychic Status
05 Roar Normal Status
06 Toxic Poison Status
07 Hail Ice Status
08 Bulk Up Fighting Status
09 Venoshock Poison Special
10 Hidden Power Normal Special
11 Sunny Day Fire Status
12 Taunt Dark Status
13 Ice Beam Ice Special
14 Blizzard Ice Special
15 Hyper Beam Normal Special
16 Light Screen Psychic Status
17 Protect Normal Status
18 Rain Dance Water Status
19 Roost Flying Status
20 Safeguard Normal Status
21 Frustration Normal Physical
22 Solar Beam Grass Special
23 Smack Down Rock Physical
24 Thunderbolt Electric Special
25 Thunder Electric Special
26 Earthquake Ground Physical
27 Return Normal Physical
28 Leech Life Bug Physical
29 Psychic Psychic Special
30 Shadow Ball Ghost Special
31 Brick Break Fighting Physical
32 Double Team Normal Status
33 Reflect Psychic Status
34 Sludge Wave Poison Special
35 Flamethrower Fire Special
36 Sludge Bomb Poison Special
37 Sandstorm Rock Status
38 Fire Blast Fire Special
39 Rock Tomb Rock Physical
40 Aerial Ace Flying Physical
41 Torment Dark Status
42 Facade Normal Physical
43 Flame Charge Fire Physical
44 Rest Psychic Status
45 Attract Normal Status
46 Thief Dark Physical
47 Low Sweep Fighting Physical
48 Round Normal Special
49 Echoed Voice Normal Special
50 Overheat Fire Special
51 Steel Wing Steel Physical
52 Focus Blast Fighting Special
53 Energy Ball Grass Special
54 False Swipe Normal Physical
55 Scald Water Special
56 Fling Dark Physical
57 Charge Beam Electric Special
58 Sky Drop Flying Physical
59 Brutal Swing Dark Physical
60 Quash Dark Status
61 Will-O-Wisp Fire Status
62 Acrobatics Flying Physical
63 Embargo Dark Status
64 Explosion Normal Physical
65 Shadow Claw Ghost Physical
66 Payback Dark Physical
67 Smart Strike Steel Physical
68 Giga Impact Normal Physical
69 Rock Polish Rock Status
70 Aurora Veil Ice Status
71 Stone Edge Rock Physical
72 Volt Switch Electric Special
73 Thunder Wave Electric Status
74 Gyro Ball Steel Physical
75 Swords Dance Normal Status
76 Fly Flying Physical
77 Psych Up Normal Status
78 Bulldoze Ground Physical
79 Frost Breath Ice Special
80 Rock Slide Rock Physical
81 X-Scissor Bug Physical
82 Dragon Tail Dragon Physical
83 Infestation Bug Special
84 Poison Jab Poison Physical
85 Dream Eater Psychic Special
86 Grass Knot Grass Special
87 Swagger Normal Status
88 Sleep Talk Normal Status
89 U-turn Bug Physical
90 Substitute Normal Status
91 Flash Cannon Steel Special
92 Trick Room Psychic Status
93 Wild Charge Electric Physical
94 Surf Water Special
95 Snarl Dark Special
96 Nature Power Normal Status
97 Dark Pulse Dark Special
98 Waterfall Water Physical
99 Dazzling Gleam Fairy Special
100 Confide Normal Status
​

Personally, I think Torment and Confide are pretty useless and wastes of TM space. I don't mind replacing them with other status moves, though. Maybe putting in Counter & Mirror Coat? those would be pretty cool in-game defensive options that I think some people would actually take advantage of.

​

 

[Gengarzilla]

For real, I was pretty annoyed that they dropped Dig before I saw the Leech Life buff. Losing Hone Claws really bugs me too, I don't go for mixed attacking so Work Up just isn't for me.

 

[Bob Fizzle]

Giga Drain and Drain Punch need to come back as TMs. Drain Punch in particular annoys me because it was replaced with Quash. I had to look up what that move even did, and it's an extremely niche move that's only useful in double and triple battles (it makes the target move last on the turn it is used, ignoring priority, provided it has not yet acted).

 

[Alolan Coconut]

Since XY I've been screaming that Moonblast should be a TM. Seeing its strenght and usability, it's pretty comparable within the likes of T-bolt and Flamethrower. On a related side-note: more Pokemon should be able to learn Moonblast.

 

[Bolt Strike]

They really got rid of a lot of good TMs in 5th gen, I'd like to see some of them come back. Water Pulse, Giga Drain, Dragon Pulse, and Silver Wind would be great to see again.

 

[GhostLucario]

What I want gone and replaced

Spoiler

Hyper Beam
Giga Impact
Frustration
Return.
Round
Echoed Voice
Again why are these TMs? They are useless, only normal Types gain STAB and they don't provide any coverage at all since they're not SE on anything and anyway it's not like there is a lack of good normal moves. I'd like them replaced.

Quash
Torment
Psych Up
Confide
TBH I don't even know what these are. All these moves are useless ingame, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone in competitive use them either.

Fly: I can understand that Surf and Waterfall are back as TMs but why Fly? it is a 2 turn move (read: bad) and only Flying mons can learn it (and not even all of them) why does it still exist?!

What I'd want to be a TM

Spoiler

Defog: it should return as a TM just like Watefall and Surf.
Earth Power: please GF please. Give it a wide distribution among Grass types as you did with IceBeam/Blizzard and Water types. They really need more coverage and this would do wonders for them to deal with Fire, Poison and Steel types and would give them a niche as Electric counters (resisting it and having SE coverage against it). Please make my dream come true.
Play Rough: it's the only Physical Fairy move and we need more Fairy TMs anyway.
Dragon Pulse: it has terrible coverage but provides a non STAB moves for some pokemon with bad movepools
Drain Punch/Giga Drain: were much better as TMs. Useful because they provide coverage and restore health.
Avalanche/Icicle Crash: we need some Physical ice moves. get rid of Frost Breath
Ominous Wind/Silver Wind/Ancien Power: the chance to raise all stats would be very welcome
Air Slash/some other special Flying move: We don't have any special flying moves as TMs
Vacuum Wave: would be nice to see it return as a TM since it's a special fighting move and also priority

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Again why are these TMs? They are useless, only normal Types gain STAB and they don't provide any coverage at all since they're not SE on anything

Hyper Beam's not used for coverage, it's used because it's a High-Power move resisted by few types. (Rock and Steel, and Ghost for immunities) It's like why Dragon was so powerful-few types resisted it, so it could be used against a lot of other Pokemon.

it is a 2 turn move (read: bad)

Not all two-turn moves are bad. Fly has a turn of semi-invulnerability, so unlike moves like Solar Beam, it doesn't penalize the user as much.

and only Flying mons can learn it (and not even all of them)

Mew, the Eon duo, Arceus, Golurk, Volcarona, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Genesect, Tapu Koko, and Lunala can all learn Fly, despite not being Flying-type.

Defog: it should return as a TM just like Watefall and Surf.

Having a hard time understanding your logic here. You said Fly shouldn't be a TM because only Flying-types can learn it, but most Pokemon that learn Defog are Flying, too. And Defog's usage is pretty outclassed by Rapid Spin, Lock On, Brick Break, etc.

 

[Bob Fizzle]

Hyper Beam
Giga Impact
Frustration
Return.

Aerialate, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Galvanize, Scrappy, and Normalium-Z say hello. Also, I want to echo what @TechSkylander1518 said above. I agree with Round and Echoed Voice though. Those were neat gimmicks when they were introduced but have expired and need to be replaced as TMs.

Having a hard time understanding your logic here. You said Fly shouldn't be a TM because only Flying-types can learn it, but most Pokemon that learn Defog are Flying, too. And Defog's usage is pretty outclassed by Rapid Spin, Lock On, Brick Break, etc.

I disagree with your argument for Defog. It offers role compression from all 3 aforementioned moves into a single slot, which IMO makes it superior to any of the above in most cases (the notable exception being for hazard-stacking hyper-offensive builds). It has its place in the metagame and isn't going anywhere soon.

I'd rather see Defog return as a TM because if somebody wants to use, say Defog Scizor in Gen VII, they have to trade it up all the way from a Gen IV game just to do so.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Oh, that makes sense! I have such a hard time breaking away from the "damage is the main goal" mentality, three effects in one is really useful!

 

[Bolt Strike]

Forgot one: Skill Swap. It's ironic, it became much more useful in 5th gen on when HAs became a thing but that's when they removed it as a TM, I use it all of the time for Horde Battles/SOS Battles.

 

[CynthiaLover]

I would like to see the removal of Quash (I still don't understand what this move does), Infestation, Round, Echoed Voice, Fling, and Psych Up. Most of those moves are situational or too gimmicky. Bring back moves like Dig, Water Pulse, Drain Punch, Giga Drain, Hone Claws, Dragon Pulse, Silver Wind/Ominous Wind, and even Incinerate (since it did get a power boost later on and can be decently powerful for certain Mons). Maybe add some moves like Air Slash, Defog, Earth Power, Iron Head, Icicle Crash, Hyper Voice, and Moonblast. Maybe even bring back the Elemental Punches as TMs, since they've proven quite useful whenever they are available, plus they've always been a personal favorite of mine. But they really need to get rid of some of the more situational and gimmicky TMs and replace them with actually usable ones. TMs are supposed to teach your team useful and/or helpful moves, not joke moves or limited usage moves.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Quash (I still don't understand what this move does),

It's super dumb-it just makes the target's move go last in a turn bracket. Completely useless in 1v1, and not very useful in 2v2.

 

[CynthiaLover]

It's super dumb-it just makes the target's move go last in a turn bracket. Completely useless in 1v1, and not very useful in 2v2.

Sheesh, that's is dumb. What does it try to prove by doing that? Give me Drain Punch, which Quash bumped off, over that any day.

 

[Gengarzilla]

Sheesh, that's is dumb. What does it try to prove by doing that? Give me Drain Punch, which Quash bumped off, over that any day.

Speaking of good moves bumped off by bad Gen V moves, take Smack Down out of TM23 and give it back to Iron Tail. Fairy types exist now, many Pokémon could use easy access to a hard hitting physical Steel type move because Steel Wing and Smart Strike don't really have its power.
The only problem would be that 75% accuracy, but I don't mind. I use Focus Blast and it's even more prone to missing.

 

[godiego]

It's super dumb-it just makes the target's move go last in a turn bracket. Completely useless in 1v1, and not very useful in 2v2.

it is useful in 2v2, the only problem is that it really only has one really good user: Prankster Sableye. so as a result it doesn't see too much usage.

 

[Bob Fizzle]

Speaking of good moves bumped off by bad Gen V moves, take Smack Down out of TM23 and give it back to Iron Tail. Fairy types exist now, many Pokémon could use easy access to a hard hitting physical Steel type move because Steel Wing and Smart Strike don't really have its power.
The only problem would be that 75% accuracy, but I don't mind. I use Focus Blast and it's even more prone to missing.

The only hesitation I have about Smack Down is that Landorus-Therian's Smack Down set is amazing, but then again, he's pretty much the only Pokemon in 3 generations to effectively use the move. If Game Freak would introduce some other way for Landorus to get Smack Down (ideally level-up, but move tutor works as well), then I would 100% agree that it can lose its TM status.

 

[Gengarzilla]

The only hesitation I have about Smack Down is that Landorus-Therian's Smack Down set is amazing, but then again, he's pretty much the only Pokemon in 3 generations to effectively use the move. If Game Freak would introduce some other way for Landorus to get Smack Down (ideally level-up, but move tutor works as well), then I would 100% agree that it can lose its TM status.

Yeah, I respect that. I hated seeing Telekinesis lose that status because I had a Chandelure run it pretty well alongside Inferno in Gen V.

 

[CynthiaLover]

Another move I thought that could be bumped off is Frustration. Yeah, sure, I get it's supposed to be Return's counterpart, but it's useless otherwise unless your name is Ghetsis, who was the only user of the move that actually made it powerful. But other than that, Frustration isn't worthy of TM status despite being a counterpart to Return. I mean, after all, who in their right mind would use a Mon that actively hates you in-game or in online battles when Return gives better benefits for a strong Normal STAB. So I say bump off Frustration, regardless of "counterpart status", and replace it with something more useful.

 

[Ambrose7]

I kinda want dragon pulse back as a tm. Also more special moves like Air Slash and Earthpower. And in case of the latter, it should be made more available.

 

[Bob Fizzle]

Another move I thought that could be bumped off is Frustration. Yeah, sure, I get it's supposed to be Return's counterpart, but it's useless otherwise unless your name is Ghetsis, who was the only user of the move that actually made it powerful. But other than that, Frustration isn't worthy of TM status despite being a counterpart to Return. I mean, after all, who in their right mind would use a Mon that actively hates you in-game or in online battles when Return gives better benefits for a strong Normal STAB. So I say bump off Frustration, regardless of "counterpart status", and replace it with something more useful.

I disagree with removing Frustration. Aside from the fact that its distribution is almost exclusively via TM (Buneary is the only Pokemon that learns it via level-up, and it can't be tutored or bred), Frustration has a very important niche among competitive players because it can potentially prevent an opposing Ditto from using the move against them. Consider the following:

I send out Mega Pinsir and set up a swords dance. I get a kill, and then my opponent sends in Ditto, who I know is choice scarfed.
If we eliminated Frustration altogether, then I know that Ditto now has a 122 BP STAB move in Aerialate-boosted Return. However, since I can choose between Return or Frustration, there is no only a 50/50 chance that Ditto's happiness matches mine and a 50/50 chance that it can't abuse Mega Pinsir's best move. The same scenario also applies to other Pokemon that can viably run Return, either as a normal STAB or as an "-ate" ability-boosted move.