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TMs/HMs

A

Apex

˙pɐǝɥ ɹnoʎ buıuɹnʇ doʇs
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Which would you like to see stay for Generation V? Which would you like to see go?

Personally I think they need to add 8 more TMs to make 100. :-/

01 Focus Punch
02 Dragon Claw
03 Water Pulse
04 Calm Mind
05 Roar
06 Toxic
07 Hail
08 Bulk Up
09 Bullet Seed
10 Hidden Power
11 Sunny Day
12 Taunt
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam
16 Light Screen
17 Protect
18 Rain Dance
19 Giga Drain
20 Safeguard
21 Frustration
22 SolarBeam
23 Iron Tail
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
26 Earthquake
27 Return
28 Dig
29 Psychic
30 Shadow Ball
31 Brick Break
32 Double Team
33 Reflect
34 Shock Wave
35 Flamethrower
36 Sludge Bomb
37 Sandstorm
38 Fire Blast
39 Rock Tomb
40 Aerial Ace
41 Torment
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
46 Thief
47 Steel Wing
48 Skill Swap
49 Snatch
50 Overheat
51 Roost
52 Focus Blast
53 Energy Ball
54 False Swipe
55 Brine
56 Fling
57 Charge Beam
58 Endure Normal
59 Dragon Pulse
60 Drain Punch
61 Will-O-Wisp
62 Silver Wind
63 Embargo
64 Explosion
65 Shadow Claw
66 Payback
67 Recycle
68 Giga Impact
69 Rock Polish
70 Flash
71 Stone Edge
72 Avalanche
73 Thunder Wave
74 Gyro Ball
75 Swords Dance
76 Stealth Rock
77 Psych Up
78 Captivate
79 Dark Pulse
80 Rock Slide
81 X-Scissor
82 Sleep Talk
83 Natural Gift
84 Poison Jab
85 Dream Eater
86 Grass Knot
87 Swagger
88 Pluck
89 U-turn
90 Substitute
91 Flash Cannon
92 Trick Room

01 Cut
02 Fly
03 Surf
04 Strength
05 Defog-DPPt
05 Whirlpool-HGSS
06 Rock Smash
07 Waterfall
08 Rock Climb
 
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Or keep the 8 HMs and they still have 100 usable moves.

I want them to add TMs though, rather than changing them.

For HMs, Rock Smash out, Dive in.
 
HM01: Cut
HM02: Fly
HM03: Surf
HM04: Strength
HM05: Defog/Whirlpool
HM06: Rock Smash
HM07: Waterfall
HM08: Rock Climb

Anything in Red I want to go. Anything in Green I want to stay.

Cut and Rock Smash need to be combined. Make a new move...perhaps Shatter? (More possibilities for puzzles with this move) It'd be a fighting move, I know that. Much more damage too. Like 80 or 95 or something.
 
Seeing as Gen V will most probably be compatible with Gen IV, the old 92 TMs will stay unless they make some stupid "no trading/transferring Pokémon with held TMs" rule. And yes, I want more TMs featuring the new Gen V moves, like most do anyway.

E: As I have stated before, there WILL be at least one low-damage HM. They need to put one in the beginning of the game so you can't pwn everything with the new 80 base power move. So, I'm very sure Cut's gonna stay.
 
Well, Shatter could be a great HM move for puzzles, in my opinion. Removing Ice/Rock/Glass walls? Wow. Good for the Evil Team's Base. Or a cave.
 
Cut, Rock Smash, Strength, Fly, Surf, Waterfall should all be guaranteed. Perhaps bump down or promote Rock Climb, Defog, Whirlpool, and Flash depending on the terrain in the Generation V region.

If anything, add a new category (Field Moves) for moves that have powers in the field: Dig, Teleport, Headbutt (bring back GSC - style Headbutting), any demoted HMs, Sweet Scent, etc.
 
On TMs...we have 92 atm. I'd possibly like 28 added, giving us 120 TMs; 8 just won't be. enough.

As for HMs...I'd like to see Rock Smash, Whirlpool and Waterfall getting the axe. They can then either re-introduce Dive, or a new HM. Either way, 8 is too much. They could easily combine Surf and Waterfall. However, due to it's usefulness in battle, Waterfall will be made a TM.
 
The existing TM list won't change, assuming even partial compatibility, but that doesn't preclude adding even more. They'll need to change their names, though, e.g. TM 01 to TM 001.
 
Ryu Shoji said:
On TMs...we have 92 atm. I'd possibly like 28 added, giving us 120 TMs; 8 just won't be. enough.

As for HMs...I'd like to see Rock Smash, Whirlpool and Waterfall getting the axe. They can then either re-introduce Dive, or a new HM. Either way, 8 is too much. They could easily combine Surf and Waterfall. However, due to it's usefulness in battle, Waterfall will be made a TM.
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Waterfall makes for interesting dungeons though. And it's been a great way of preventing the player from reaching the Indigo Plateau for three generations, so I don't see it being taken off the list.

If anything, Whirlpool didn't really need to exist as an HM..it could have just been a TM granted at the same time an NPC who gives the Silver Wing, considering it's only uses where either for access to the Whirlpool Islands or to a few areas where one could find items and trainers...

Rock Smash I agree is annoying and should be returned to Generation II - like status, where it existed as TM for dungeon exploration. It could easily be replaced by Strength puzzles for the various areas where it serves as an impediment to the journey (for example, in Hoenn, the two Rock Smash boulders on Route 111 was an extreme cop-out imo).

If we look at all the HMs we've ever had (Flash, Cut, Rock Smash, Strength, Surf, Fly, Whirlpool, Waterfall, Rock Climb, Dive, and Defog), only a few have existed for all four generations so far (Cut, Surf, Fly, Strength). These won't be cut. Two have been region-exclusive (Defog, Dive). Two have been side-quest exclusive (Rock Climb, Whirlpool). Flash was used until Generation IV, where it became a TM with the same purpose, as a side-quest only tool (like Rock Climb and Whirlpool). Rock Smash has been in consistent usage since Generation III, but even those usages could be seen as cop-outs that could be replaced with other mechanisms for limiting player progress until a given task has been completed.

I'm expecting to see Cut, Surf, Fly, Strength, Rock Smash, and one-two region-exclusive HMs.
 
TMs don't have code names. 001 is a waste of text.
 
A TM that has a license to kill...what is it called? UB3|2 B34|\/|?
 
The HMs are fine as they are, though I'm not sure about HM05. They could change the TMs around a bit.
 
I've had a theory. Just having the HM in your possession causes all pokemon in your party who can learn the move will gain it as an ability. Like when you pull up the pokemon menu, and select the pokemon, and "Summary, switch," and other abilities like Fly and cut are shown.

For example, let's say you have the cut hm and a Treecko. Treecko automatically gains the ability to cut, without wasting a move slot. However, you can teach HMs as moves, for moves like Surf, if you want to. I think this system would work really great. It wouldn't require you to catch any slaves, or waste move slots. It even opens up possibilities for more HMs, without completely pissing off the community.

What do you guys think?
 
Dedo said:
I've had a theory. Just having the HM in your possession causes all pokemon in your party who can learn the move will gain it as an ability. Like when you pull up the pokemon menu, and select the pokemon, and "Summary, switch," and other abilities like Fly and cut are shown.

For example, let's say you have the cut hm and a Treecko. Treecko automatically gains the ability to cut, without wasting a move slot. However, you can teach HMs as moves, for moves like Surf, if you want to. I think this system would work really great. It wouldn't require you to catch any slaves, or waste move slots. It even opens up possibilities for more HMs, without completely pissing off the community.

What do you guys think?
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http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=1430334&postcount=320
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=1433211&postcount=356
V Faction said:
Going back to the HM's for a second, something I wanted to discuss. One of the simplest and more widely-accept changes I've seen on what to do with the HMs that differentiates the least from the standard way of using them currently is spliting up their move and field functions.

It's not good practice to remove Pokemon move data from the games. So the trick behind fixing the HMs is to divide the currently existing move (that you use in battle) from its function. Instead of an HM teaching your Pokemon a move that you then use out on the field, it now simply teaches the move for use in Pokemon fights. In order to access the field function, the only requirement is to 'have' the HM with you, which is basically fulfilled through story elements like normal, after which it gets placed into your bag like usual. So you can 'use' Surf or Strength as long as you have a Pokemon that's capable of learning it in your party, but you don't necessarily have to teach them it. Just having the HM... disk you could call it, is enough to utilize it. Don't have a Pokemon that could normally learn the attack? Can't use it.

This is the popular hope, right? If they need a solution that doesn't radically differ from the norm as we've come to know it, I could see this being the correct choice. But personally, I hope the HM systems gets revamped slightly more than this.
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V Faction said:
Your idea is still restricting Field effects to some arbitrary 4-slot list. What I'm proposing (dubbed "the popular idea"), all that would be required to use a field effect is the 'HM' key item itself. That means, if you take a Pokemon like Bibarel, which I think can learn 6 HM's normally, in your team, you can use those HM field effects anywhere, regardless of whether Bibarel has Surf, Rock Smash, etc. in his move set. Again, the only requirement is getting the HM (obtained via plot points in the game like they normally are).

You have HM Surf? You have a Pokemon that ordinarily can learn Surf? Well then, go ahead and use Surf! It saves you from having to teach a move without restricting you from progressing. The one stipulation is, as I explained, having a Pokemon that can normally utilize the attack on your team. Except now this means you would only need one Water Pokemon for your team (as they can usually learn all of the Water-based HMs) and cut back on having an HM slave.

This is the closest I figure they could keep it to the old system without radically changing everything and keeping people happy at the same time. Though personally, for myself, I'd appreciate it if they reached further into the barrel of ideas to come up with something even more inventive.
Click to expand...
 
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