Torkoal: Hidden Gem?

[Dave B]

I've been looking for a competitive tank for future teams, and while cycling through the options, I passed over Torkoal.

I immediately tossed it aside, "Fire Type" I said to myself. Until I really thought about it. That might not be such a bad thing. Torkoal is one of very few Pokemon to beat Scizor 100% of the time.

Even with Adamant, Life Orb, and a Swords Dance, it still can't OHKO the Fiery Tortoise with Superpower, even if it's taken SR damage. From there, Torkoal can just kill it with a STAB Fire move.

Nor will Lucario Close Combat assuming the same conditions, but Torkoal can't take SR this time. Stone Edge might manage it, but Lucario almost never carries it.

Here's a list of some common OU Pokemon soundly beaten by Torkoal.

Scizor,
Lucario (without SE)
Scarf Heracross,
Forretress,
Weavile,
Ninjask,
Dusknoir,
Some Metagross,
Skarmory,
Frosslass.

Despite a rock and ground weakness, Torkoal is tough enough to take one powered up Earthquake/Stone Edge, before battering the opponent with Explosion or STAB Fire move. In this manner, it can even stop a once Dragon Danced Salamence (by taking the Earthquake, then Exploding).

Despite the SR weakness it can be a very useful secondary Rapid Spinner, as it does beat Dusknoir.

Don't get me wrong, it's far from perfect. But with some support, I've found it can be incredibly useful, (particularly if you hate Scizor).

Any thoughts?

 

[The Outrage]

I wouldn't actually say Torkoal "beats" Ninjask since it is a good baton passer. Once you switch it in, all it does is Baton Pass.

 

[Envoy]

I always did like Torkoal but never bothered training one competitively. Are these statistics purely theoretical, or have you tested them to good results?

 

[RAcast_Blaster]

They look theoretical. And besides, there will always be something with a powerful EQ and/or SE on the opposing team (it's the most common move for a reason). So Torkoal will never be as good of a wall/tank as say, Bronzong, Forretress, Skarm, or even Dusknoir who can all switch into EQ/SE with minimal worries.

 

[Falconwing]

Torkoal's are okay, but from what I can tell they are simply put on teams to counteract other commonly used pokemon. So, they don't have much purpose against unorthodox teams.

 

[Spool]

Not to be a downer but isn't Torkoal completely worthless if Scizor has U-turn?

 

[Falconwing]

Not to be a downer but isn't Torkoal completely worthless if Scizor has U-turn?

Yeah, and a lot of Scizor's do.

 

[TTEchidna]

Playing through Emerald again to get a second DynamicPunch move tutor, I've been using Torkoal because I don't want to be stuck with anything else by Juan. And it's actually turning out pretty well, even being on an in-game team.

If it's not used so often competitively, hey, I'd say it'd be worth a shot trying out. I do wish they'd evolve it, though... my Turstal idea probably wouldn't be too good as half Steel.

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

I have trouble believing that Torkoal can safely counter some of these things, especially after SR. For example, even Jolly LO Lucario does a minimum of 75% with two CCs (you'd have to take both to counter) to max defense, max HP Torkoal. And that's enough to KO after SR. Scizor beats it with U-Turn. There are probably some others that don't work so well.

Worst of all, Torkoal is not a threat to things that aren't on your list, meaning they can safely switch in. In other words, if Torkoal switches in and threatens something, the opponent just switches to something else. Torkoal has to leave while they set up or hit your switch in. And if you want to use Torkoal again, you'll have to take another 25% from SR.

I don't think Torkoal is a hidden gem.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

Torkoal is somewhat a hidden gem. It can lead and threated lead fortresses, safely set up stealth rocks, and spin away hazards once they are set up. It's a hidden gem, but still a diamond in the rough.

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

Torkoal is somewhat a hidden gem. It can lead and threated lead fortresses, safely set up stealth rocks, and spin away hazards once they are set up. It's a hidden gem, but still a diamond in the rough.

Aerodactyl can prevent Forretress setup and put up SR of its own. This effectively covers everything but spinning. And Torkoal is like the worst spinner save Delibird. It takes 25% and has no reliable recovery moves.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

Aerodactyl can prevent Forretress setup and put up SR of its own. This effectively covers everything but spinning. And Torkoal is like the worst spinner save Delibird. It takes 25% and has no reliable recovery moves.

true...(p.s. isn't hitmonchan another god awful spinner)

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

true...(p.s. isn't hitmonchan another god awful spinner)

Okay. So.

Spinners definitively worse than Torkoal: Delibird (takes 50%, no reliable recovery, terrible defenses), Smeargle (horrible defenses), Kabutops (bad defensive typing, no recovery, not all that defensive).

Spinners around as bad as Torkoal: Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee. Although they aren't as defensive, they at least have some bulk on the special side, and more importantly, they resist SR.

 

[Sheshi]

Torkoal isn't that great. ITs defence is great, but like Tangrowth, it falls over when it comes to special attacks. Typing isn't the greatest either, being weak to SR, no good recovery outside rest. Also, Hitmonlee isn't that great a spinner anyway.