TR VS. TP Info

[Sweet Veil]

Source: Pokemon Best Wishes: Posible fecha de estreno para los episodios 23 y 24 - Anime, Manga y TV

We advance these two episodes, that will be modified from its original version so as to not call to mind those terrible events that occurred in Japan. It will be a lot of waiting, but finally these chapters will be issued. -Eduwardo Garza, Latin American dub director/voice actor

Yeah, a dub industry might not be creditable for the likely hood of these episodes airing but TPCi we know for a fact has episodes before they air in Japan and it's not completely breaking the suspension of belief that the Latin Dub Director might indeed be telling the truth regarding the Plasma/Rocket two-parter.

 

[Cybersai]

I only still care about them if Giovanni's role hasn't been cut out.

 

[Garren]

Latin American Pope gets voted in, now we've got the Latin American Dub airing the Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma two-parter. Coincidence?

 

[Cybersai]

Aren't they already using scenes from this 2-parter from the other Plasma eps now? So how can this still air with the same Plasma scenes already in the current eps, not to mention Looker.

 

[UnovaCastaway]

Wouldn't the Japanese directors/ producers have to okay the dub first, especially the edits?

 

[Silktree]

This is an old report from January 2012; it means little to nothing now since the writers' plans have obviously changed a fair bit. Bear in mind that the Latin American dub is a year behind, so even though 2013 was mentioned, the dub director was just referencing the Rival Destinies season. Maybe he thought that Operation Tempest would be a modified version of the original two-parter.

 

[Virgil134]

After I heard episode N would end in April and the Meowth and Colress episode had nothing to do with the two parter, I thought they were gone for sure. This however, gives me some hope they might air after all.

I mean this guy seems like a much more reliable source than Goltik. A dub director is just a better source than a guy on the internet who claims to work for TPCi.

 

[Silktree]

A dub director is just a better source than a guy on the internet who claims to work for TPCi.

But he doesn't speak for the Japanese staff, and he has no reason to know details about their plans so far in advance. He was obviously referring to what he thought would happen in 2013 in the Latin American dub, which is a year behind.

Actually, after reading the page again more carefully, it turns out that the cited source for the 2013 claim was Pocketmonsters.net. I don't know if that fansite actually spread such a claim (I would think that Adamant would know better than to spread unsupported rumors), but it seems that the quote from the dub director was made even earlier in 2011. So I really don't see why it is even worth mentioning when he basically just reiterated what TV Tokyo said in March 2011. We also can't be sure that the Spanish website quoted him verbatim.

 

[Virgil134]

But he doesn't speak for the Japanese staff, and he has no reason to know details about their plans so far in advance. He was obviously referring to what he thought would happen in 2013 in the Latin American dub, which is a year behind.

As a dub director I am sure he has the right connections to figure out what they are planning to do with the lost episodes.

Besides that, those episodes were supposed to air in 2011. Sure they got moved but it's not something new like the Dekorora Islands so I wouldn't really call it a plan that's 'so far in advance'

 

[Silktree]

As a dub director I am sure he has the right connections to figure out what they are planning to do with the lost episodes.

Besides that, those episodes were supposed to air in 2011. Sure they got moved but it's not something new like the Dekorora Islands so I wouldn't really call it a plan that's 'so far in advance'

Again, his statement dates back to 2011, meaning that he allegedly said that only a few months after the episodes had been postponed and TV Tokyo had promised that they would air at a later time. So why does it matter? It's not as if we're dealing with a recent statement that could confirm that the writers haven't changed the plan after two years. Lastly, we can't even be sure that he even said something to that effect, since the website that quoted him is unreliable due to misquoting Pocketmonsters.net, which is in itself a fansite.

I'd also love to know why the writers would wait until Ash left Unova before finally airing the modified episodes. Granted, it hasn't been confirmed that Episode N is truly the end of Team Plasma, but why wouldn't it be? The new saga is quite obviously unrelated, and the idea of yet another Best Wishes saga borders on pure wishful thinking. If the writers wanted to keep Team Plasma relevant until the end of Best Wishes, surely Episode N would just be paced differently with many fillers filling the gap between the important episodes.

 

[Virgil134]

Again, his statement dates back to 2011, meaning that he allegedly said that only a few months after the episodes had been postponed and TV Tokyo had promised that they would air at a later time. So why does it matter? It's not as if we're dealing with a recent statement that could confirm that the writers haven't changed the plan after two years. Lastly, we can't even be sure that he even said something to that effect, since the website that quoted him is unreliable due to misquoting Pocketmonsters.net, which is in itself a fansite.

I'd also love to know why the writers would wait until Ash left Unova before finally airing the modified episodes. Granted, it hasn't been confirmed that Episode N is truly the end of Team Plasma, but why wouldn't it be? The new saga is quite obviously unrelated, and the idea of yet another Best Wishes saga borders on pure wishful thinking. If the writers wanted to keep Team Plasma relevant until the end of Best Wishes, surely Episode N would just be paced differently with many fillers filling the gap between the important episodes.

Just because he said it in 2011 doesn't mean it's unreliable. I don't know what makes you think that but whatever.

Also, episode N could just be the start of something. It could end with N getting Reshiram and joining TP. At the end of BW we get one last arc with Zekrom that would end with Ash fighting N and defeating TP. This arc could also contain the 2 parter. (Not my theory. After looking around on the internet today I found a blog where someone said this and it actually makes a lot of sense)

 

[Silktree]

Also, episode N could just be the start of something. It could end with N getting Reshiram and joining TP. At the end of BW we get one last arc with Zekrom that would end with Ash fighting N and defeating TP. This arc could also contain the 2 parter. (Not my theory. After looking around on the internet today I found a blog where someone said this and it actually makes a lot of sense)

N joining Team Plasma wouldn't make sense in the least given that he's already aware of Ghetsis' plans. He used to be Ghetsis' pawn, but he knows better than that now. Not to mention that Ash and co. leaving Unova even temporarily would be jarring if Team Plasma were still out there.

But the conspiracy theories will live on; it can't be helped. I bet that speculation like this will not be completely gone even after Best Wishes is over.

 

[Virgil134]

N joining Team Plasma wouldn't make sense in the least given that he's already aware of Ghetsis' plans. He used to be Ghetsis' pawn, but he knows better than that now. Not to mention that Ash and co. leaving Unova even temporarily would be jarring if Team Plasma were still out there.

But the conspiracy theories will live on; it can't be helped. I bet that speculation like this will not be completely gone even after Best Wishes is over.

I am just gonna assume you are either a troll or you simply have no clue what a conspiracy theory is. A conspiracy theory is a theory about an event being caused or covered up by a group or organization. A theory about the 2 parter airing at the end of BW in a Zekrom arc obviously doesn't fit that description. If you are gonna disagree at least use the right term.

Also now I think about, N joining Ghetsis again would make perfect sense. We know how Colress can control Pokemon and how upset N gets when Colress does. Ghetsis would simply offer him a deal. Colress will stop experimenting on Pokemon if he becomes Ghetsis' pawn again. It would also fit in with the magazine scan that said "Come back N!"

 

[Silktree]

I am just gonna assume you are either a troll or you simply have no clue what a conspiracy theory is. A conspiracy theory is a theory about an event being caused or covered up by a group or organization. A theory about the 2 parter airing at the end of BW in a Zekrom arc obviously doesn't fit that description. If you are gonna disagree at least use the right term.

It's called hyperbole. By analogy, a conspiracy theory can refer to any tendency to see connections where none exist. Thinking that the writers are waiting until the very last minute to air a two-parter that was written in 2010 borders on that kind of thinking.

Also now I think about, N joining Ghetsis again would make perfect sense. We know how Colress can control Pokemon and how upset N gets when Colress does. Ghetsis would simply offer him a deal. Colress will stop experimenting on Pokemon if he becomes Ghetsis' pawn again. It would also fit in with the magazine scan that said "Come back N!"

The Pokémon anime is not a dark series. So far, Colress' plans have failed, so why he would he and Ghetsis get away with controlling Reshiram? The White Ruins will get three episodes devoted to them; just because things start on a bleak note doesn't mean that that they will stay that way by the end of Episode N. The last title, "Reshiram VS N! Beyond Ideals and Truth!!", strongly implies that N will solve the problem.

 

[Virgil134]

It's called hyperbole. By analogy, a conspiracy theory can refer to any tendency to see connections where none exist. Thinking that the writers are waiting until the very last minute to air a two-parter that was written in 2010 borders on that kind of thinking.

Non-existing connections? I am sorry but there are plenty of reasons to believe they will air the 2 parter at the end of BW. They are retconning the 2 parter into the current storyline. From what is seems they will be retconned in an arc with Zekrom which happens to be at the end of BW. You make it sound like they are randomly waiting for the end of BW to show the 2 parter, which isn't what I said. The Zekrom arc just seemed the best place for the writers to put it. It HAPPENS to be at the end but they didn't put it there just because it's the end of BW

The Pokémon anime is not a dark series. So far, Colress' plans have failed, so why he would he and Ghetsis get away with controlling Reshiram? The White Ruins will get three episodes devoted to them; just because things start on a bleak note doesn't mean that that they will stay that way by the end of Episode N. The last title, "Reshiram VS N! Beyond Ideals and Truth!!", strongly implies that N will solve the problem.

You think that's to dark? In Operation Tempest Giovanni threatened to kill Ash. TP threatening to keep experimenting on Pokemon if N doesn't join them isn't to dark for this series. Also, it doesn't matter if Colress' plans failed. He can control wild Pokemon. They don't need his technology to control Reshiram. N will control Reshiram for them as long as Colress stops experimenting on wild Pokemon. There is nothing impossible about that. Finally Zekrom won't appear in episode N's climax. Why bring up Zekrom again just to never do anything with again?

 

[Silktree]

Non-existing connections? I am sorry but there are plenty of reasons to believe they will air the 2 parter at the end of BW. They are retconning the 2 parter into the current storyline. From what is seems they will be retconned in an arc with Zekrom which happens to be at the end of BW. You make it sound like they are randomly waiting for the end of BW to show the 2 parter, which isn't what I said. The Zekrom arc just seemed the best place for the writers to put it. It HAPPENS to be at the end but they didn't put it there just because it's the end of BW

What Zekrom arc? You read someone's theory and now it is a fact? The two-parter wasn't connected to Zekrom, so even if Zekrom were to appear in the very end of Best Wishes, why would the writers wait until then to air the two-parter?

You think that's to dark? In Operation Tempest Giovanni threatened to kill Ash. TP threatening to keep experimenting on Pokemon if N doesn't join them isn't to dark for this series.

It all depends on how long the threat is; Giovanni threatening to hurt Ash and Pikachu only lasted a few minutes. Episode N ending with Ghetsis winning would be unprecedented.

N will control Reshiram for them as long as Colress stops experimenting on wild Pokemon. There is nothing impossible about that.

And how would Team Plasma controlling Reshiram, with a machine or otherwise, be the lesser of two evils? Reshiram is dangerous in the wrong hands. Also, why on earth would N have to battle Ash? Why wouldn't he just help him as he's been doing so far?

Finally Zekrom won't appear in episode N's climax. Why bring up Zekrom again just to never do anything with again?

Because both truth and ideals will be relevant to the last White Ruins episode. For all we know Zekrom could still make a cameo, or failing that, it will just be referenced in the same way that Ho-Oh was in the Suicune episode back in Johto. There certainly doesn't need to be a Reshiram vs. Zekrom battle, as Movie 14 has already done that.

 

[YamiiDenryuu]

Non-existing connections? I am sorry but there are plenty of reasons to believe they will air the 2 parter at the end of BW. They are retconning the 2 parter into the current storyline. From what is seems they will be retconned in an arc with Zekrom which happens to be at the end of BW. You make it sound like they are randomly waiting for the end of BW to show the 2 parter, which isn't what I said. The Zekrom arc just seemed the best place for the writers to put it. It HAPPENS to be at the end but they didn't put it there just because it's the end of BW

Unless you want to explain these supposed connections clearly and in detail, I'm afraid what you're saying here really does sound like a conspiracy theory (a teeny little one revolving around a japanese kids' show, but nevertheless). None of the rumours that've been thrown around so far have panned out, and this one is out of date enough to fall into that category as well. And what Zekrom arc are you talking about?

 

[Silktree]

The Yveltal arc in 2015 will obviously wrap up the Meteorite subplot once and for all. Patience.

 

[Zexy]

No need to talk about it for hours! They aren't even needed now, we only are 5 episodes from TP's final stand!

 

[Virgil134]

What Zekrom arc? You read someone's theory and now it is a fact? The two-parter wasn't connected to Zekrom, so even if Zekrom were to appear in the very end of Best Wishes, why would the writers wait until then to air the two-parter?

I thought I made it clear earlier on that it’s my opinion and what I think will happen, meaning I don’t have to repeat that in every post. I am sorry if I wasn’t clear about it, I thought you were smarter than that.

It all depends on how long the threat is; Giovanni threatening to hurt Ash and Pikachu only lasted a few minutes. Episode N ending with Ghetsis winning would be unprecedented.

No it would not. Villains can win for multiple episodes as long as they get defeated at the end. In this case TP would still lose in the Zekrom arc so a temporary victory with N and Reshiram joining TP would be just fine.

And how would Team Plasma controlling Reshiram, with a machine or otherwise, be the lesser of two evils? Reshiram is dangerous in the wrong hands. Also, why on earth would N have to battle Ash? Why wouldn't he just help him as he's been doing so far?

Because N rather fights on Plasma’s side than seeing Pokemon get hurt by Colress.

Because both truth and ideals will be relevant to the last White Ruins episode. For all we know Zekrom could still make a cameo, or failing that, it will just be referenced in the same way that Ho-Oh was in the Suicune episode back in Johto. There certainly doesn't need to be a Reshiram vs. Zekrom battle, as Movie 14 has already done that.

It wouldn’t make any sense if Ash would encounter Zekrom and talk about it with N just for a cameo of Zekrom at the end of episode N. An arc about Zekrom and Reshiram fighting would make much more sense, whether we already had a movie about Zekrom vs Reshiram or not.

Unless you want to explain these supposed connections clearly and in detail, I'm afraid what you're saying here really does sound like a conspiracy theory (a teeny little one revolving around a japanese kids' show, but nevertheless). None of the rumours that've been thrown around so far have panned out, and this one is out of date enough to fall into that category as well. And what Zekrom arc are you talking about?

The theory is that episode N ends with N joining TP together with Reshiram. Not knowing where N is and what TP is planning they would take a temporary break at the Dekorora Islands and do whatever they are gonna do there. When they get back the Zekrom arc will happen. Ash will team up with Zekrom here (hence the name) and fight N, Reshiram and TP which would then be the end of BW. Because of Garza I am certain the two parter will still air which would perfectly fit in the Zekrom arc. TP is a serious threat to TR’s mission of taking over Unova when they have Reshiram. It would be a good moment for Giovanni and other TR members to appear to fight them, setting a situation that would be perfect for a retconned version of the TR vs TP two parter.

If that’s still not detailed enough for you then read the blog I read here . He explains it much more detailed then I did. I simply don’t have the time to explain it as detailed as he did.

No need to talk about it for hours! They aren't even needed now, we only are 5 episodes from TP's final stand!

There has been no confirmation that episode N will be TP’s end. But you are right, this debate isn’t going anywhere. I am done talking about this for now