Trick Room in Ubers

[Cheesus Is Lord]

This is my first attempt at an Ubers team, so I'm trying to make it as good as possible before testing it. I've decided that I want to run a trick room team, just because it's a lot of fun. Other than that, I'm open to any changes suggested here. My EVs are currently unfinished, but since I'm pretty busy with school at the moment, I've decided to put it up with a short explanation of what I'm using it for anyway. Although I will be working on them myself, I would appreciate input on good sets. Keep in mind when suggesting Pokemon that I will need a large number of Trick Roomers, and the only Ubers-viable Pokemon who can use it are Arceus (who I will not use), Dialga, Jirachi, Bronzong, Cresselia, Mew, Palkia, Deoxys-D, and (maybe usable?) the Lake Trio. Also keep in mind that all speed IVs will be zero.

Here's the team.

Dialga @ Lum Berry
Sassy
252 HP, 44 Def, 22 SpAtk, 192 SpDef
-Trick Room
-Stealth Rock
-Draco Meteor
-Thunder

My current lead. Dialga opens up and sets up Stealth Rock and Trick Room. Thunder is for lead Kyogre. Dragon Pulse is for hitting hard. I'm considering switching out Dragon Pulse for Draco Meteor to get more power, but I'm unsure if this is a good idea. I'm also considering Flamethrower to give me a good way to deal with Scizor and Forretress. I'm also questioning the item, as Leftovers will help make up for my lack of recovery moves and Lum Berry will help me against lead Darkrai. I want him to be primarily defensive, but with enough attacking power to still threaten a few things. The biggest threats I intend to face with him are Kyogre, Giratina, Lugia, and Swords Dance Extremespeed Rayquaza. I'll run calcs on this to determine the best spread myself eventually if I don't get suggestions in the meantime.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Brave
252 HP, 6 Def, 252 Atk
-Bullet Punch
-Pursuit
-U-Turn
-Roost

Now that Scizor is really fast, he should be even more of a killer. Plus, Bullet Punch hits hard and fast even if Trick Room runs out. I only have Roost on here because every Uber Scizor set on Smogon included it, so I figured it must be a good idea. I'm a little worried about the lack of Brick Break/Superpower, as this is my only Pokemon who outspeeds Blissey. Plus, it could help hurt Dialga. Anyway, as you can see, the defensive EVs are very uncreative. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Quiet
6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 SpAtk
-Draco Meteor
-Extremespeed
-Fire Blast
-Dragon Claw

Once you add Trick Room, allowing him to outspeed most things and max out both attacks, Rayquaza becomes a monster. Not only that, but he can still finish with Extremespeed after Trick Room wears off. I decided on Dragon Claw over Outrage simply because Outrage locks me into place, which is not so good in a team with only a limited amount of time to sweep.

Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Brave
6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 SpAtk
-Earthquake
-Shadow Ball
-Thunder
-Dragon Claw

Another powerful and slow mixed sweeper. It hits super-effective against a lot of the game and should do some good damage.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Relaxed
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 SpDef
-Trick Room
-Wish
-U-Turn
-Iron Head

Jirachi is my other tanking Trick Room user and my Wish supporter. I think U-Turn will be very useful in a Trick Room team, getting the switch pulled off while still dealing damage. I was unsure as to Jirachi's final move, so I went with Iron Head for flinchax. However, I am very open to other suggestions. Also, Jirachi's EVs are still unset. I need to figure out exactly what he needs to come in on.

Palkia @ Leftovers
Quiet
252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 6 SpDef
-Trick Room
-Thunder
-Surf
-Fire Blast

This is the one that I'm really unsure on. I'm using it as a definite Kyogre counter and my final Trick Room user. Although he is mostly a special sweeper, he has some useful resistances, which should allow him to pull Trick Room off. Anyway, for the rest of the moveset: Surf gives me a much better Heatran counter than just Giratina-O, Spacial Rend hits ridiculously hard against other Dragons (which resist everything else) and would make this my best hitter against Giratina, Fire Blast gives me something else to deal with Scizor and Bronzong, as Rayquaza is my only other fire user and is frail enough to potentially be taken down with Bullet Punch. Similarly to Scizor, my defensive EVs are very uncreative and I will gladly take advice on them. I also don't know whether I should give it a sweeping item or defensive item.

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So that's my team. Right now my biggest worries are Darkrai and Deoxys-S leads, which I can't stop very well. I've been thinking about switching Scizor to the lead and setting up later to try to counter this, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. I'm also worried about Wobbeffet, as he can switch in on anything and outspeed it. This will let him force my setup Pokemon to repeat, say, Trick Room and not even deal damage to him. I really don't think there is a way around this problem though other than prediction. I also worry about Blissey a bit, just because she outspeeds all of my team except Scizor, and can potentially hit my other sweepers with Toxic/Ice Beam.

It's a great feeling to not have to worry about so many Ubers because you outspeed them under Trick Room. Also to max out an attack and realize you can put the rest into the

other attack because you don't have to worry about speed.

So anyway, that's my first Ubers team. Give me your opinions.

 

[1337R34P3R]

groudon's gonna tear you a new asshole if you don't find a counter for him...

 

[Sarcastically Insane]

Dialga @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Nature Relaxed?
EVs 252 Def
252 SpD
4 SpA
-Trick Room
-Stealth Rock
-Draco Meteor
-Thunder/Flamethrower

Draco Meteor over Pulse because when you lead you'll probably switch out early. If you put on Flamethrower, put it over Thunder. I would actually suggest it for coverage and accuracy (only Heatran takes resisted damage from Fire/Dragon)

Scizor @ Life Orb
Brave
252 HP, 6 Def, 252 Atk
-Bullet Punch
-Pursuit/X-Scissor
-Swords Dance
-Roost

I never liked U-Turn unless it's on a Choice variant, where you U-turn right away so you can counter. Swords Dance is a must now that Scizor has bulk, and X-Scissor is a great STAB move. However, Pursuit is useful if you want it.

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Quiet
6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 SpAtk
-Draco Meteor
-Extremespeed
-Fire Blast
-Dragon Claw

Looks good to me.

Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Brave
6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 SpAtk
-Earthquake
-Shadow Ball
-Thunder
-Dragon Claw

Once again, looks good to me.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Nature Sassy (+SpD, -Spe
EVs 252 SpD, 252 HP, 4 Def
-Trick Room
-wish
-U-Turn
-Iron Head

I put it as a Specially tuned wall because 1) Dialga is better at physical and 2) most Fire attack, the preffered form of destroying Jirachi, are Special. Just hope that you spot and EQ user before it destroys Jirachi.

Palkia @ LO/Leftovers/???
Quiet
252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 6 SpDef
-Trick Room
-Thunder
-Surf/Hydro Pump
-Fire Blast

Surf or Hydro Pump so it has a nice STAB attack and you can hit Heatran. Fire Blast over Spatial Rend because you already have three other Dragon type users, so Fire Blast can fill in the hole you have.

THere you have it. Hope it helped.

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

groudon's gonna tear you a new asshole if you don't find a counter for him...

Rayquaza comes in on ground attacks (which my steels draw out), outspeeds, and does 98.76% minimum with Draco Meteor. Giratina-O can only do 43% min with Shadow Ball, but is more bulky and could help bring down weakened ones. I admit it is a little bit Groudon-weak though.

If you put on Flamethrower, put it over Thunder. I would actually suggest it for coverage and accuracy (only Heatran takes resisted damage from Fire/Dragon)

I'm a little worried about that since Draco Meteor doesn't give a 2HKO on Kyogre. However, I do have Palkia as a definite counter, so I will consider this.

Edit: Specs Kyogre beats me with Water Spout no matter what. That means I'll definitely stick Flamethrower on there instead.

Swords Dance is a must now that Scizor has bulk, and X-Scissor is a great STAB move. However, Pursuit is useful if you want it.

Pursuit is great, since so many things in Ubers are weak to it and I assume Scizor will definitely be forcing some switches. I'm a little hesitant on Swords Dance though, since setup takes time, and Scizor will have precious little time (3 turns maximum) under Trick Room to sweep.

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

After testing this out, forgetting about it for a while, and then coming back to it, I figured I'd post the changes I've made here and see if I can get any other input on this team.

Dialga got enough SpDef EVs to avoid a 2HKO by Modest Scarf Kyogre. The defense avoids a 2HKO by LO Mewtwo's Brick Break. Because I can now beat Kyogre variants, I kept Thunder. I then put the rest into SpAtk. I changed to Draco Meteor on Cynical's suggestion, which has worked out pretty well so far. It sometimes leaves me with problems, as it is the only perfect accuracy attacking move, which sometimes left me in bad situations. However, I usually had Trick Room up at that point, and that made it easy to deal with most threats to Dialga. With my low SpAtk investment, I think it's been helpful.

Because Dialga has been oriented specially, I decided Jirachi could be oriented physically, especially with the nice ability to bring Rayquaza and Jirachi in on each other's weaknesses. Jirachi can safely take a Modest Specs Mewtwo's Ice Beam, the strongest special attack that might be aimed at Rayquaza, with 252 HP / 6 SpDef, so I left it there.

Palkia got Leftovers to allow it to counter Modest Specs Kyogre's Ice Beam without dropping SpAtk. The moves there came from Cynical's suggestion and are good.

Now, on to the main issues I've been facing.

First, I really can't stop Dual Screen Deoxys S from setting up. While I have been able to play around this, it has been irritating. Potentially, switching Scizor to the lead could prevent full setup, allowing me to exploit the hole, but then I would be unable to set up Trick Room. Since a lot of my sweepers are crippled by low speed, I would be limited in my potential switch-ins. Plus, I'm not sure how well Scizor would do against other common leads.

Second, Lugia can screw me up. Without rain to back my Thunders, I can't get in good hits against it. One of them tore my team apart by continuously Whirlwinding me through entry hazards while I tried my damndest to hit it to death.

Scizor hasn't gotten all that much use, but when he has, he has been vital to my victory. However, I've never been able to use Roost. I think I should either replace that move or get rid of Life Orb.

Giratina-O has been useful sometimes, but usually, Rayquaza is just plain better. I might replace him with another mixed sweeper. In addition, this team suffers from being entirely Dragon and Steel. I have issues finding safe switch-ins to anything carrying both Fire and Dragon. Usually, trick room is up and I can outspeed and KO such threats, but it can be problematic sometimes. Depending on what they think I'll do, I may have a 50-50 shot of being KOd on the switch, which could cost me the game. Considering that I also sometimes find myself needing a perfect accuracy Thunder, but lacking on rain, I've been thinking that maybe I should replace Giratina-O with a mixed Kyogre. I'd like some other opinions on this though.

 

[Falcon Punch]

Trick Room really is hard in ubers because of the low amount of andidates for the move (Arceus is banned in Ubers)

I cant beleive you haven't mentioned SD groudon as a threat. He scares 2/3 of your trick roomers, and lol brings out the sun so if EQ isnt a KO on Palkia, neither is surf.

Kyogre is definatley a sure fire replacement in my eyes, what is Giratina o Doing? Scizor counters Mewtwo who is useless in TR. The only thing I can see Giratina doing is a mixed set to counter wobbufett, as counter dosent affet Giratina, however this is easily remidied by using a Choice band on Scizor w/ U turn. Kyogre ust sems like a good fit here as it brings rain, leesening the weaknesses of Scizor and Jirachi. Also helps out Plakia.

Good luck with the team

 

[Mijzelffan]

(Arceus is banned in Ubers)

Since when?

 

[Falcon Punch]

Since when?

if you are actually playing by smogon rules, sine the start of DP. He isnt allowed on Shoddy, where I'm guessing this team was played

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

Yes, this team is exclusively on Shoddy.

After looking over Kyogre, I think a mixed set is worthless. Kyogre has almost no physical movepool, and even using Waterfall needs 252 EVs and a boost like LO or Mystic Water to 2HKO Blissey. Since Kyogre needs at least 108 Def or 164 HP to survive an EQ from max attack LO Groudon under stealth rock, I don't think this is worth it.

I'm thinking of just using the Choice Specs set, only putting the speed EVs into HP. Something like:

Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Quiet
252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 6 SpDef
-Surf
-Thunder
-Ice Beam
-Water Spout

Although TR will make it difficult to get in with no damage and pull off Water Spout, the ability to outspeed everything with it will be devastating if I can do it. Plus, this will give me another safe switch-in to Groudon in addition to Rayquaza. I may move more EVs into special defense as needed, but will keep at least 164 EVs in HP unless I decide to buff defense instead.

Despite my dislike of Choice Items for a TR team, I think it will work here because Kyogre is just SO obscenely powerful. Even special walls like Latias crumble before the power of Water Spout if they can't outspeed.

With this, I have to wonder about Palkia's moveset. Fire Blast won't be nearly as useful and should maybe be replaced with Spacial Rend. However, since I have a dedicated special attacker for sure now, I wonder if I shouldn't make use of a mixed Palkia instead. Palkia does have a good physical movepool. The only problem is assigning EVs so that it stays defensive enough to set up TR as well. Also, I would like to continue being able to counter Specs Kyogre's Ice Beam.

Scizor counters Mewtwo who is useless in TR. The only thing I can see Giratina doing is a mixed set to counter wobbufett, as counter dosent affet Giratina, however this is easily remedied by using a Choice band on Scizor w/ U turn.

Scizor hits weakened Pokemon hard with Bullet Punch out of Trick Room as well. I have gone from losing 4-2 to winning 2-0 because of this before. As I said, Scizor isn't useful as often as the rest of my team, but every time he is, he is absolutely vital to victory. I'm reluctant to discount Scizor as a good member of my team for this reason. I also don't want to put a Choice item on him because I don't want to switch too much. I suppose as a dedicated physical sweeper, he won't be able to stay in as long anyway, but still I worry.

I'm thinking about replacing the unused Roost with Bug Bite. This will let me sweep with powerful bug moves without being forced to switch out.

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So yeah. These are my thoughts on potential updates. What do you guys think about Kyogre/Palkia/Scizor?