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Updating Johto Pokemon

Envoy

Envoy

Formerly GTT
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I think I could make a strong argument for Johto’s Pokemon being the most severely affected by the growing power creep in the franchise. While a case could be made for Sinnoh, it is still a much newer Generation with overall stronger Pokemon. Hoenn Pokemon recently got a remake that helped boost a lot of them to being more competitively viable, Kanto is constantly getting catered to due to the nostalgic lens Game Freak has for them, and Unova -- Alola, they are recent enough that their Pokemon have been able to weather the power creep much better.

That leaves us with Johto as the "weakest" roster in the series. This is not to say that no Pokemon in Johto has been able to adapt. Pokemon like Scizor, Heracross, Politoed, Tyranitar, Skarmory, and Blissey have managed to remain relevant throughout the years. But you still have a ton of Pokemon who haven't been able to quite measure up.

To wit:

-All three Johto Starters (with the possible exception of Feraligatr)
-Noctowl (compare to Mega Pidgeot, Staraptor, Talonflame, etc)
-Ho-Oh and Lugia (compared to Primal/Mega Hoenn Box Legends, the Sinnoh trio + their orbs, etc)
-Celebi
-Houndoom
-Kingdra outside of rain
-Donphan
-Girafarig
-Sudowoodo
-Jumpluff
-Bellossom
-Octillery
-Hitmontop
-and others

Of course, a lot of this is relative. I know that. But in general, I do feel that Johto Pokemon have not aged as well as their counterparts from other regions.

So here is my question: what are some (REALISTIC) ways we could help update some of the more neglected Johto Pokemon to help them get on par with their other region counterparts.

Let's talk about what I mean by 'realistic.'
-It is unlikely for a Pokemon's typing to magically change into a better one
-It is unlikely for a Pokemon's type to suddenly change its relation to the type chart
-It is unlikely for a Pokemon's stats to be randomly rearranged.
-It is realistic for a Pokemon to get a mega evolution
-It is likely for a Pokemon's movepool to get expanded (within reason)
-It is likely for a Pokemon to get an "Alola" forme.

So, let's discuss.
 
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Huh? You don't think Houndoom's been able to measure up? My personal experiences definitely dictate otherwise; it's been something I frequently find myself considering whenever I build a team.

in fact, I'm honestly surprised your list doesn't specifically mention Magcargo instead. Now that's an example of a lacklustre Generation II Pokémon that I could agree with.
 
Gengarzilla said:
in fact, I'm honestly surprised your list doesn't specifically mention Magcargo instead. Now that's an example of a lacklustre Generation II Pokémon that I could agree with.
Click to expand...
It has Shell Smash. Honestly, that alone makes it better than a ton of other Johto mons.
 
Gengarzilla said:
Huh? You don't think Houndoom's been able to measure up? My personal experiences definitely dictate otherwise; it's been something I frequently find myself considering whenever I build a team.

in fact, I'm honestly surprised your list doesn't specifically mention Magcargo instead. Now that's an example of a lacklustre Generation II Pokémon that I could agree with.
Click to expand...
I just listed a few examples. If I were to list all the under-powered Johto Pokemon, the list would have overwhelmed the rest of the OP.

In terms of Houndoom, I did mention that everything was relative. But outside of the RU tier (to use Smogon classifications,) Houndoom lacks either speed, bulk, or power to be a credible threat. Again, the power creep is real. While 95 Speed was great in past generations (and is still good in lower tiers) it doesn't really measure up to the current speed baseline as of Gen VII. His offensive stats run into the same issue without a boost. And he is too frail to reliably boost his stats. In addition, his Mega form has to compete with other megas for a slot and his ability is near useless as activating it will lower its already weak survivability (not to mention requiring a Drought user to set up, the best of which is...another Mega) and not activating it effectively leaves it lacking an ability. I love and adore Houndoom. He is my favorite Fire type Pokemon by far, but I think he could definitely use a boost.
 
Magcargo
  • regional variant
  • Water/Steel
  • Heatproof, Shell Armor, Storm Drain
  • +10 Def, -10 Speed
Jumpluff
  • Leaf Guard replaced with Aerilate
Sunflora
  • regional variant
  • Grass/Fire
  • Drought, Solar Power, Flame Body
  • +20 Def, -20 Atk
  • Weather Ball and Fire moves added to its movepool
Meganium
  • Leaf Guard replaced with Flower Veil
  • Wish, Floral Healing, Healing Wish added
 
Mega Meganium
Item-Meganiumite
Type-Grass/Fairy
Ability-Multiscale
HP: 80; Atk: 122; Def: 120; SAtk: 100; SDef: 123; Spe: 80
Moveset additions: Play Rough, Wish, Seed Flare

Mega Typhlosion
Item-Typhlosionite
Type-Fire/Electric
Ability-Competitive
HP: 78; Atk: 100; Def: 111; SAtk: 130; SDef: 85; Spe: 130
Moveset Additions: Earth Power, Nasty Plot, Thunderbolt

Mega Feraligatr
Item-Feraligatite
Type-Water/Dragon
Ability-Sheer Force
HP: 85; Atk: 129; Def: 100; SAtk: 78; SDef: 103; Spe: 108
Moveset Additions: None

Lugia
Item-Silver Wing
Effect-Damaging attacks targeting Lugia count as resisted. Stacks with Lugia’s other weaknesses and resistances.

Ho-Oh
Item-Rainbow Wing
Effect-Increases Ho-Oh’s attacks by 4915/4096.
 
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Envoy said:
???
Click to expand...
Just some sarcasm... not funny, apparently :p

I very much agree that Johto is the most neglected region. Its Pokémon rarely get any of the fun updates, and the region is always overshadowed by its neighbor. The starters are lackluster and in dire need of new toys. While I would love to see them get megas like others have posted, I highly doubt GF would do that. It almost seems like backtracking and they ain’t about that.
 
Mega Typhlosion
Type: Fire/Electric (my original idea was Fire/Water like Volcanion's steam volcano aspect but it is unrealistic for a starter)
Ability: Burning Spirit (Basically a Special-Attack variation of Moxie)
Stats: Attack- 74 (-10), Defence- 92 (+14), Sp. Atk.- 160 (+51), Sp. Def- 100 (+15), Speed- 130 (+30)
Moveset Additions: Nasty Plot, Thunderbolt, Earth Power, Steam Eruption or Scald (it, like Volcanion is based on a volcano so it being able to harness steam is not a farfetch'd concept. Even Emboar learns Scald!)

EDIT: some explanation for ability and stats.
Eruption has a lot of base power at full HP, and Mega Typhlosion's high speed and special attack allows it to score a KO fairly easily, increasing special attack thanks to Burning Spirit.
It’s reduction in attack, given instead to the defences helps it to take a hit without being KOed and lessen the decrease in Erupton's power.
Scald/Steam Eruption gives it something to use against ground types (against which it has a 4x weakness.

It can easily go to OU and possibly ubers. I hope it isn’t too OP but Typhlosion is one of my favourite Pokemon so... :p
 
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I never liked Aerialate because it feels like Game Freak avoiding having to make a reliable physical Flying-type move, and Pixilate has the opposite problem: the Pokemon that have it already have reliable special Fairy-type moves.

Anyway, Seadra's stats make it look like a special tank, then it evolves into a Jack of all stats. I don't get it.

Ledian needs more special attack. Lanturn needs more special defence.
 
PkmnTrainerV said:
Mega Typhlosion
Type: Fire/Electric (my original idea was Fire/Water like Volcanion's steam volcano aspect but it is unrealistic for a starter)
Ability: Burning Spirit (Basically a Special-Attack variation of Moxie)
Stats: Attack- 74 (-10), Defence- 92 (+14), Sp. Atk.- 160 (+51), Sp. Def- 100 (+15), Speed- 130 (+30)
Moveset Additions: Nasty Plot, Thunderbolt, Earth Power, Steam Eruption or Scald (it, like Volcanion is based on a volcano so it being able to harness steam is not a farfetch'd concept. Even Emboar learns Scald!)

EDIT: some explanation for ability and stats.
Eruption has a lot of base power at full HP, and Mega Typhlosion's high speed and special attack allows it to score a KO fairly easily, increasing special attack thanks to Burning Spirit.
It’s reduction in attack, given instead to the defences helps it to take a hit without being KOed and lessen the decrease in Erupton's power.
Scald/Steam Eruption gives it something to use against ground types (against which it has a 4x weakness.

It can easily go to OU and possibly ubers. I hope it isn’t too OP but Typhlosion is one of my favourite Pokemon so... :p
Click to expand...
Typhlosion is one of my favorite Fire Starters, so I have a vested interest in seeing it do well (not as much as Meganium but still...) I, personally, tried using Abilities that already exist instead of using my own, regardless of how obvious they are. But that’s just me.
 
Envoy said:
Typhlosion is one of my favorite Fire Starters, so I have a vested interest in seeing it do well (not as much as Meganium but still...) I, personally, tried using Abilities that already exist instead of using my own, regardless of how obvious they are. But that’s just me.
Click to expand...

The abilities which do the task I wanted Burning Spirit to do are restricted to a small group of Pokémon- Beast Boost exclusive to Ultra Beasts, and Soul Heart exclusive to Magearna, which make no sense on Typhlosion.
Competitive does the task, but there are very less opportunities to use it since it would be in the opponent's best interest to defeat Mega Typhlosion asap before it sweeps instead of bothering to lower its stats.
 
Mega Noctowl
Type: Flying/Psychic
Ability: Compound Eyes
HP: 100 | Atk: 50 | Def: 80 (+30) | Sp.Atk: 106 (+20) | Sp.Def: 136 (+40) | Spe: 90 (+10)
Moves: Dark Pulse, Sucker Punch.
I've given Noctowl a bit more bulk and Special Attack to take advantage of its special movepool. Dark Pulse and Sucker Punch are for coverage, and it's practically a Psychic-type so might as well make it one.

Mega Donphan
Type: Ground/Steel
Ability: Ground-type version of Aerilate/Pixilate/Refrigiate (Excavate?)
HP: 90 | Atk: 150 (+30) | Def: 150 (+30) | Sp.Atk: 60 | Sp.Def: 100 (+40) | Spe: 50
Moves: Iron Head.
Now Donphan can really shine as a physical attacker. Imo it needs a Ground-type version of Aerilate/Pixilate for Body Slam, Return, Double-Edge and Last Resort. They'll really hurt with STAB.

Make it happen, Gamefreak.
 
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Girafarig
  • Early Bird replaced with Adaptability
  • +10 Sp.Atk and +20 Speed
 
Pyrax said:
Mega Noctowl

Type: Flying/Psychic
Ability: Compound Eyes
Click to expand...
you sinned. No compounded eyes, it would deserve something better like Dazzling.
Or maybe something new and better?

Mega Typhlosion
fire/electric
ability: Fluffy(against Sheer Force Feraligatr)


Mega Dophan
ground/fairy (learn Play Rough could learn also that fairy sound move and more )
-ability: Dazzling
 
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Matleo said:
Mega Typhlosion
fire/electric
ability: Fluffy(against Sheer Force Feraligatr)
Click to expand...

I assure you Typhlosion will not be a viable fluffy user. It focuses on quick heavy hitting, not tanking hits. Plus, most ground moves tend to be non-contact, and will not activate fluffy, leading Typhlosion to faint anyway.

And if you’re so keen on Fire/Electric Typhlosion beating Feraliagtr, just click Thunderbolt for an OHKO.
 
Am I the only one that doesn’t want Typhlosion to gain a second type of itever mega evolves? Like, it’s our ONLY pure fire-type starter. And pure fire isn’t a bad type. I’d rather it keep that uniqueness. But maybe that’s just me.

Water/dragon Feraligatr just makes sense, I don’t think anyone argues against that.
 
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