Usage of legendary Pokemon outside of the movies

[Cybersai]

The writers have been putting more legendary Pokemon in regular episodes than ever before. We've even seen trainers own legendaries, like Brandon and the Regi's, or Noland befriending and using Articuno. Ash has also defeated two legendary Pokemon in battle, and did a ton of damage to others.

Why do you think the writers no longer make a big deal out of the legendaries like they used to? It used to be considered "taboo" for a trainer to own a legendary, but now that seems to no longer be the case.

Likewise with the exception of some special ones like Ho-oh, Mewtwo, Mew and Arceus, a lot of the others are treated like every-day appearances now.

Ash is like, "Oh, its Deoxys again!" Or, "Oh, look another Zapdos!" Or, "Oh its Suicune, this is the third time I've seen it!"

What are your thoughts?

 

[Dewgong Reign]

It's stupid. They're fillers, and are being abused by the writers. They could make a good story, but they recycle them constantly because they think it makes a great story every time they appear.

 

[ii kanji]

The problem is that there are now just too many legendaries. If each one were treated with reverance it would take the shine off the really special ones.

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

The writers have been putting more legendary Pokemon in regular episodes than ever before. We've even seen trainers own legendaries, like Brandon and the Regi's, or Noland befriending and using Articuno. Ash has also defeated two legendary Pokemon in battle, and did a ton of damage to others.

Why do you think the writers no longer make a big deal out of the legendaries like they used to? It used to be considered "taboo" for a trainer to own a legendary, but now that seems to no longer be the case.

Likewise with the exception of some special ones like Ho-oh, Mewtwo, Mew and Arceus, a lot of the others are treated like every-day appearances now.

Ash is like, "Oh, its Deoxys again!" Or, "Oh, look another Zapdos!" Or, "Oh its Suicune, this is the third time I've seen it!"

What are your thoughts?

Personally, I never saw the big deal about Legendaries. I mean, sure, it's considered taboo to own a Legendary, but then again, they should have emphasized the fact that they CAN'T capture a Legendary, period (Meaning, not just make it taboo to capture it, but completely impossible to even catch one with the devices they had.). I mean the Greek and Roman myths had it that the Gods/Goddesses could NEVER be captured by mere mortals, morally, tool-related, or just flat out physically, so why should Legendary Pokemon be any different. Ever since Movie 2, I saw the fallacy of their so-called "Divine" status, seeing how they were caught by Mere Mortals far too easily. Does it matter that they broke a taboo to me? No, all that matters to me is that they caught it, thus proving to me, and what should have been to everyone else that they aren't gods like they claimed them to be.

 

[Musashi]

They're much easier to get nowadays, so the anime is just reflecting that.

 

[Dogasu]

I mean the Greek and Roman myths had it that the Gods/Goddesses could NEVER be captured by mere mortals, morally, tool-related, or just flat out physically, so why should Legendary Pokemon be any different. Ever since Movie 2, I saw the fallacy of their so-called "Divine" status, seeing how they were caught by Mere Mortals far too easily. Does it matter that they broke a taboo to me? No, all that matters to me is that they caught it, thus proving to me, and what should have been to everyone else that they aren't gods like they claimed them to be.

Who ever said they were supposed to be the same as Greek / Roman gods?

They probably just call them kami ("gods") because they thought it'd be a cool thing to call them. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[DerMißingno]

The idea isn't particularly new, Giovanni had and used Mewtwo way back in the first season.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Who ever said they were supposed to be the same as Greek / Roman gods?

They probably just call them kami ("gods") because they thought it'd be a cool thing to call them. Nothing more, nothing less.

Kami is not means god!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kami

 

[PDL]

I don't see why every legendary needs the super-special-awesome treatment that most people assume they need.

The legendary birds for instance. Most people assume that capturing and handling their powers can lead to worldwide disaster, even though it only seemed to apply to a single movie. Subsequent appearences by all three birds (and even Lugia) seemed to greatly tone down their apparently "limitless" power.

Most legendaries are not as "god-like" as people make them out to be. While they are rarer and stronger then average Pokémon. This sort of "plot armor" can't save them from being exploted by human beings.

Then again, I find most legendaries completely over-rated anyway, so seeing them used as regular Pokémon is actually kind of a relief. It makes them more relatable and personable rather then distant figures of myth and legend.

Kami is not means god!

Actually, that definition of "God" fits legendary Pokémon better then the omnipotent abrahamic godhood that most people associate with "God".

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

I don't see why every legendary needs the super-special-awesome treatment that most people assume they need.

The legendary birds for instance. Most people assume that capturing and handling their powers can lead to worldwide disaster, even though it only seemed to apply to a single movie.

That and a similar incident that happened in that Johto episode involving the Crystal Lake.

Most legendaries are not as "god-like" as people make them out to be. While they are rarer and stronger then average Pokémon. This sort of "plot armor" can't save them from being exploted by human beings.

Then again, I find most legendaries completely over-rated anyway, so seeing them used as regular Pokémon is actually kind of a relief.

I also felt that they don't deserve to be called gods, either, as even by the Graeco-Romanic definition of what is a god, they aren't that, either.

Actually, that definition of "God" fits legendary Pokémon better then the omnipotent abrahamic God.

I was referring to the Greek/Roman definition of a "god" (Which is a bit similar to the Abrahamic God, in one sense, but they aren't omniscient or omnibenevolent. Omnipowerful, most certainly, at least with Zeus and Hera.), not the Abrahamic God when I said that.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think that it does help that there are so many legendary Pokemon now. If they did treat every single one of them as something super special, then it would make the whole appearance of a legendary less special. At least to me.

Besides, while some legendary Pokemon do have more strength and power than some of the others, I don't think that every single one of them is totally super powerful. I agree that being treated more like regular Pokemon and less than perfect creatures above all over Pokemon makes them more interesting and in some cases more likable to the audience.

 

[Cybersai]

Yeah, I think Movie 2 played up the bird trio waaay too much. It was early on in the series so the writers didn't know how much more powerful the legendaries would get as the series progressed, but that movie makes it seem like they affect the entire planet.

The only way to explain this is to say those particular three were "special" versions of Articuno/Moltes/Zapdos, and it does not apply to all the other ones we see.

Noland's Articuno was considered a child if I'm remember correctly, or at least it was very young.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I think the issue here comes down to TRAINERS having Legendaries. Jirarudan denied being a trainer because he's a collector. Bashou claimed not to be one (although he didn't exactly say what he *was*, but it's assumed that Buson would fall under the same classification). Vicious really never said either way, but given that he's basically the Damian of Team Rocket, there's a chance that if he *was* a licenced trainer he'd get it revoked.
And then you have someone like Nelson, who Ash tried to HELP capture Entei. And someone like Brandon is most certainly a trainer. Giovanni is an odd case because he pretty much *created* Mewtwo rather than capturing it.

I wonder what would happen if a bad guy trainer caught a Legendary through normal means. Would Ash be able to do anything about it? The one that comes immediately to mind is Harley, given that he's a bad guy but not abusive to his pokemon (just, y'know, to anyone that so much as looks at him crosseyed), but Harley wouldn't use it for a greater evil goal (other than "showing up everyone who ever wronged me and oh yeah winning the Grand Festival too).
Like if, say...I donno. Say Charon goes and awakens Heatran like in the game, and in order to stop it from going on a rampage, Jupiter catches it. It would be an interesting moral issue.

 

[PDL]

I think the issue here comes down to TRAINERS having Legendaries. Jirarudan denied being a trainer because he's a collector. Bashou claimed not to be one (although he didn't exactly say what he *was*, but it's assumed that Buson would fall under the same classification). Vicious really never said either way, but given that he's basically the Damian of Team Rocket, there's a chance that if he *was* a licenced trainer he'd get it revoked.

I don't really see how calling or not calling yourself something really makes a difference. The point was that all those people you listed wanted the legendaries' power for themselves. They didn't really care too much about the well-being of the creature, plus it was very obvious that they were definitely going to do something with their newfound power.

I wonder what would happen if a bad guy trainer caught a Legendary through normal means. Would Ash be able to do anything about it? The one that comes immediately to mind is Harley, given that he's a bad guy but not abusive to his pokemon (just, y'know, to anyone that so much as looks at him crosseyed), but Harley wouldn't use it for a greater evil goal (other than "showing up everyone who ever wronged me and oh yeah winning the Grand Festival too).
Like if, say...I donno. Say Charon goes and awakens Heatran like in the game, and in order to stop it from going on a rampage, Jupiter catches it. It would be an interesting moral issue.

As long as there is some sort of bond formed between trainer and Pokémon, it makes little difference as to the relative power of said Pokémon, or the moral compass of said trainer. But I highly doubt that the anime would show a character who's supposed to be an antagonist do something that's protagonist-like.

What people really have a problem with is a normal person controling an extraordinary monster. It's basically a hallmark of the dreaded Mary-Sue type character.

 

[Dogasu]

I also felt that they don't deserve to be called gods, either, as even by the Graeco-Romanic definition of what is a god, they aren't that, either.

Again,

Who ever said they were supposed to be the same as Greek / Roman gods?

I can't think of a single time where the legendary pokemon were ever even *implied* to be an attempt at representing a Greek / Roman god-like entity.

People just take the word "god" far too seriously.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I don't really see how calling or not calling yourself something really makes a difference. The point was that all those people you listed wanted the legendaries' power for themselves. They didn't really care too much about the well-being of the creature, plus it was very obvious that they were definitely going to do something with their newfound power.

Well, Jirarudan didn't care about the well-being, but it was pretty much established that he didn't want its power, just as a display piece.
Which in a way is kinda worse, but hey.

As long as there is some sort of bond formed between trainer and Pokémon, it makes little difference as to the relative power of said Pokémon, or the moral compass of said trainer. But I highly doubt that the anime would show a character who's supposed to be an antagonist do something that's protagonist-like.

Brandon was never shown to have a bond with the Regis. He just used them in battle. He seemed to have more of a bond with Regigigas, which he never even captured.
Nelson's motives were never examined, as well. He was all "Hey guys, help me catch Entei!" and that was that.

And I never said Jupiter would turn protagonist. Just proposed the idea of her (or Mars, or Saturn if he comes along) catching Heatran to stop it from rampaging. That could easily lead to turning around and saying "Ok lissen up--I control this volcano now so you do what I tell you". But they'd have caught it fair and square.

And what would happen if a human caught something that was about equal to PMD's Dusknoir?

 

[PDL]

People just take the word "god" far too seriously.

I think it's more of a case of automatically associating it with the Abrahamic concept of a single all-powerful dieity who is in control of everything.

Even the Greco-Roman Gods all had varying power. There was Zeus who was the current King, then the major Gods who were his brothers and sisters (one of them his wife, Hera, Queen of the Gods), which had dominion over a certain concept, such as Hades, God of the underworld and Demeter, Goddess of the harvest. There were also a huge number of other gods, goddesses which represented different concepts that were important to Greek and Roman society.

The Japanese concept of Kami is similar to this. Any being with supernatural ability over something is instantly deemed a God of sorts. Wether or not he/she/it is actually worshiped.

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

I think it's more of a case of automatically associating it with the Abrahamic concept of a single all-powerful dieity who is in control of everything.

Even the Greco-Roman Gods all had varying power. There was Zeus who was the current King, then the major Gods who were his brothers and sisters (one of them his wife, Hera, Queen of the Gods), which had dominion over a certain concept, such as Hades, God of the underworld and Demeter, Goddess of the harvest. There were also a huge number of other gods, goddesses which represented different concepts that were important to Greek and Roman society.

The Japanese concept of Kami is similar to this. Any being with supernatural ability over something is instantly deemed a God of sorts. Wether or not he/she/it is actually worshiped.

The problem with that, though, was that Virgil's "Aeneid" already described Zeus/Jupiter and Hera/Juno as being "omnipotent" at least once (Both in the english translation AND the Latin original, and I know that because my entire AP Latin course dealt with reading the Aeneid both in english and in Latin.), and trying to use "Omnipotens" (The latin word for Omnipotent, which literally means "all powerful") to just say more powerful than a mortal doesn't make any sense since the Latin Language has both the comparative and superlative cases of Potens (Potentior and Potentissime, respectively, which translate to "____ is more powerful than _____" and "_____ is the most powerful", respectively.), which they could have easily used.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

And that's two out of HOW many?

Additionally, if Hera was really omnipotent, how come Zeus could get away with so many affairs?

Also, no pokemon has been said to be omnipotent. I think the closest that would come to that description would be Xatu, and it's not a legendary.

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

And that's two out of HOW many?

Additionally, if Hera was really omnipotent, how come Zeus could get away with so many affairs?

Also, no pokemon has been said to be omnipotent. I think the closest that would come to that description would be Xatu, and it's not a legendary.

Ask Virgil or some Latin scholar for that tidbit? All I know is that Aeneid had explicitly refered to Juno as being "Omnipotens" at one point (I think it was during the time where she tried to convince Aeolus to cause a storm.)

And anyways, seeing how Hades/Pluto and Poseidon/Neptune are of a similar status to Zeus/Jupiter, I think they may also be considered "omnipotent" in that sense as well.

Even without the omnipotent status, the greek and roman tales (especially the Persephone incident) heavily imply that the chances of a Mortal trying to capture a god are flat out impossible by any means.