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User Space Ban

MAGNEDETH

MAGNEDETH

Undeniably the #1 Magnemite fan
MAGNEDETH - Former Bulbapedia Editor-in-Chief Bulbapedia Leadership Board
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Well folks, if you're a regular on Bulbapedia, you know that User Space edits are blocked right now. If you're not a regular, surprise! Now, for those who don't know why it's been blocked, lets refresh your memory.

The Bulbapedia server is under stress all the time due to it being one of the most popular Pokemon websites on the internet. That being said, behind the scenes are us, the various editors of the 'pedia that keep it looking fresh, new, exciting, and the like. However, every time you hit that "Save Page" button, it puts tremendous stress on the server, which, if you read above, is something thats already going on. Now, the 'pedia server can take most of that abuse, however, a third entry is what was doing it in.

The User Space.
The User Space is anything that any given user creates and deals with under their name (ex: User:MAGNEDETH/Teams). Most prominently, the main User Page of any user (ex: User:MAGNEDETH). So, whats the big deal? Well, there was a big problem with people joining the 'pedia and using it solely to make edits to their User Space, and none to the actual Main Space. That in turn gives the server a third element of stress, and that folks, is too much. At first, it was just annoying, but then people who joined the site started using it as a blog, or a MySpace of the sorts. it became an epidemic. So, how do we solve epidemics? With a ban hammer. ie: The User Space Ban.

Now personally, thats fine. I don't need the User Space, I joined the 'pedia to contribute to the community and give back to a website I had used as a visitor for quite some time. I wanted to repay my debt so to speak. Other people, not so much.

So, why do I, some random user, come here and talk about it? Well frankly, I'm tired of people complaining. The easy solution, and one Zhen would most likely promote, is all of the User Space be deleted. However, lets keep an open mind and find a definitive solution. Do you think we need the User Space? Personally, I don't think we NEED it, but I think an outright deletion is a bit over the top. So, lets get some ideas people.

The most prominent solution has been to monitor the edits with an "edits per day" system, however, it can't be done. While that system would be exactly what we're looking for, it, in itself, would put more stress on the server than the problem at hand. So, thats out. Or is it? It has been suggested that users monitor each other and make sure no one edits too much. An Honor System.

Another idea I had was User Space Page Ownership Limits. Basically, some users have around 5 pages (not including their main User Page) and thats a lot when you think of how many users their are out there. Maybe reduce that to 2-3 per person. So, while thats not a real solution to the overall problem, it is something to look into.

Think about it folks, what can you come up with?
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{{Delete}}
The User Space would not exist.
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The Honor System
Users would monitor each other and keep an agreement to not over do it on User Space edits.
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User Space Page Ownership Limits (USPOL)
Users are not allowed to "own" more than 2 or 3 pages.
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I am not an Admin, a Mod, or, anything important really. I'm just another user.
 
Even better, put all your stuff on one page, like I do, instead of having it spread out over heaps of different pages.

Or perhaps if people are editing User space too much, give a warning first, if it continues ban them for a set amount of time. Each time they are banned from editing user space the time the lapses goes up. That way serial offenders of way too much editing would end up not bothering to edit.
 
Yes, though it would require some setup. At the moment, only administrators can edit user pages; we could set up a new user group that is allowed to edit user pages, however the problem would be having new users automatically added to that group while still being able to remove offenders from it.
 
I really don't see anything wrong with userspace. The problem starts when a majority of a user's edits are to their own page or to their subpages (including team pages, fake Pokémon articles, and the User Entertainment Project). I was actually taken aback because I tried to remove someting from my page, as I haven't logged in for a while and due to the new signature policy I needed to remove something about how I didn't like overdone signatures and how "my signature is just text and two Unown sprites". The mere fact that userspace activity exists doesn't do harm; it sure didn't in 2005 when I joined.

My own opinion is to allow it, but perhaps limit the number of subpages a user may have. Oh, and get rid of the UEP already. The pedia's better without it.

Oh, and wasn't there a distressingly large percentage of edits in the template namespace a while back, mostly all to userboxes? While I'm not against userboxes, quite many of them are either jokes (how about "This user is a god") and some simply are extraneous, like this one that serves to inform everyone of what math class the user is taking, there's this one that warns anyone who dares use a "lame hook-up line" on said user, and this one because sandboxes are just that awesome amirite? Oh yeah and did I herd someone may or may not actually liek mudkips but just felt like sticking a mudkip on a userbox for lulz?

Edit: Zhen, wouldn't it make more sense to give registered users the permission and then create a group that can't edit userspace and move offenders into that group?
 
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a specific group of people that can and cant edit, thats not a bad idea, though, you know there would be people who would complain that they arent in it. buuuut, maybe if someone contributes enough, they could make it onto the list? in any case, i like that idea. pretty much everyone starts off disallowed, but then you get added if youre good.

and as for templates, there are lots that are dumb, like the math one, but, the Mudkip one is an extremely popular meme, so, that one is more likely useful.
 
Abwayax said:
Edit: Zhen, wouldn't it make more sense to give registered users the permission and then create a group that can't edit userspace and move offenders into that group?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the permissions model does not work that way - if at least one of the user's groups permit a particular action, then that action is permitted.
 
what I'm hearing is that the amount of edits given to a user page can't be limited to one for a set amount of time, like 24 hours?
 
Obviously, it can be done in theory, but it would require additional work. Possibly a lot of additional work.
 
I like the user space, especially because I can make a new project page from scratch without having to immediately put it in the main database. I can tweak it, save it, and come back to it later until it's ready to go live. I also think it is fair to let people have a page to list who they have captured in their Pokémon games, for trading purposes.

What needs to stop is people using the user space as a chat room or private messaging service. We also need a standard format for signatures that does not include images.
 
In my opinion you should only be able to have 2-3 pages under the user: section, but the chat room thing is a big problem I also have, because of the material its about. for example, I did 30 edits just working out one trade.
 
I'm personally liking both the Honor System and the Ownership limit... why not both? People generally don't NEED a huge number of pages (make an extra or two to hold info that doesn't fit on your main userpage maybe, that's about it). And if you need to edit a userpage multiple times a day, then perhaps it's not something you should have on the wiki. I can understand someone taking a few tries to get complicated coding right, and the honor system would allow people to do that. But if someone's actively leveling up a Pokémon team, and updating their page to reflect it as they go, then someone can say "hey, update it once a day at most, buddy".

User talk is harder to enforce, and hopefully, won't need enforcing; need to bring up something? Drop the user a message. Need an opinion, leave a message. Need to chat while battling over WiFi, perhaps you should take it to an instant messenger. Generally, simple comments don't put much strain on the server, so long as they're just that, simple comments. And in moderation, of course.

Geo - a.k.a. Jioruji Derako
 
that sounds pretty good right there, i suppose the admins would have to lay the smack down on any user that does over edits and ignores warnings to stop.
though, this does pose a question, with everyone cramming their pages onto one page, whats the limit a user can have one page's size?

as for talk pages, i added my PM link at the top of my page, i think thats one way of dealing with it, and users are welcome to advertize their IM info if they want, arent they?
 
I think the Honor System and the Ownership limit would be terrific. I cant think of a case where I would need 3+ User pages, and if the other users were making sure you honor it, then it works perfectly. Now how are you going to explain it to the new users, or the bad nuts who refuse to edit only once a day per page
 
I've noticed that a few people are using the User talk page now instead for what they would've used the User page for.
 
Glinn Mgraw said:
I've noticed that a few people are using the User talk page now instead for what they would've used the User page for.
Click to expand...

..yeah, it's defeating the purpose of the userspace ban to just stick everything on your talk page instead. Some people have been just updating of "how many levels my pokemon grew since the userspace ban" which is like.. "Er, does anyone care whether your Caterpie grew to level 8 or not?". Ugh, bothers the crap out of me.

Also lol at the people using Bulbapedia as a fanficktion site.
 
i have noticed Talk pages being used actual pages now. it bothers me a bit. but if you look at it, its mostly new kids who think "this'll teach 'em to take my User Space away!" thinking they are geniuses for figuring a way around the ban.

as for the fan fiction, well, i think it is stupid (like "shipping" *shifty eyes*). now, if we did the thing with each user being allowed to only have 2-3 pages, and that user HAD to have their fiction on their own page, technically, we couldnt tell them other wise not to use their own page for it.
 
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