UU/BL Pokémon in OU

[Reed]

In the old thread, I posted this team, purely for the sake of having some fun using Pokémon that aren't seen too often in standard play. I tested it on Shoddy for a while, but encountered numerous weaknesses, the most pressing of which being an inability to counter Infernape. I also lacked a reliable defense against Dark and Rock-type attacks, and I had no Fighting-type attacks of my own.

On that note, I started to revamp the team a bit last week, but only filled four spots. I'm considering Nasty Plot Toxicroak for the Dark/Rock resistance and Vacuum Wave, but I'm not sure. I'm hoping for some suggestions now on those last two spots and how to deal with my marked weaknesses.

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Cloak
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Wake-Up Slap
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond

Suicide leads and Stealth Rock are all the rage on Shoddy right now, but this team is intended for Wi-Fi. Still, Taunt should shut down Stealth Rock, not to mention Hypnosis. On that note, Jolly Froslass has a chance of outrunning non-Scarfed Gengar, but I can't rely on it. Her goal is to Thunder Wave what she can to set the stage for my slower sweepers, taking offensive leads down with her using Destiny Bond. However, if she runs into Tyranitar, she's done. I don't think that Wake-Up Slap will OHKO, but it's my best bet to do something against it. I considered running a Timid Nature and carrying Thunderbolt for Gyarados, but Gyarados can be shut down with Taunt or Thunder Wave, and it doesn't have a weather effect that will render my Sash useless. Hippowdon is another problem, but I haven't seen it as much, and Froslass can at least Taunt it to stop Stealth Rock.

Gardevoir @ Light Clay
Ability: Trace
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe
- Psychic
- Reflect
- Thunder Wave
- Wish

Some people can pull off pure UU in OU, but it looks like I need some more experience. In the meantime, I'm including a BL Pokémon in Gardevoir. She continues Thunder Waving after Froslass is taken down, Wishing the team back to health and boosting defense with Reflect in the meantime. For attacking options, I suppose that Psychic does the job. I worry about its coverage, but, if nothing else, it helps me to deal with Infernape.

Arbok @ Life Orb
Ability: Shed Skin
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Def / 80 SpD
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake
- Stockpile
- Rest

My bulky physical attacker from the previous team. I'm not too worried about Poison's weaknesses; Psychic and Ground-type attacks are both pretty easy to spot and switch out of. Arbok also provides a nice Fighting resistance. Once it's on the field, Stockpile boosts its defenses, and Shed Skin paired with Rest will, with a bit of luck, allow it to completely heal at will. Gunk Shot is its best option for STAB while Earthquake provides coverage. Unfortunately, I'm completely shut down by Skarmory, Bronzong and Magnezone if it gets the chance to Magnet Rise.

Absol @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
- Sucker Punch
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance

On my last team, Absol had a shaky start, but, with a bit of practice, became one of my most important Pokémon. Sucker Punch alone basically carried it, and the boosted chance of a critical hit certainly didn't hurt. X-Scissor has been added over Taunt since then, and its EVs have been re-adjusted.


As I already mentioned, I'm considering Toxicroak as a special sweeper, but that adds a second Ground weakness, and I'm looking to get an immunity that I can switch into Earthquakes. I used Octillery as my last special sweeper, but it had trouble getting any boosts passed to it. Drifblim's Substitutes were nice, but it couldn't do much of anything else. Claydol's main purpose was to use Trick Room, which I'm no longer running, and Clefable was meant for Wish, which is now Gardevoir's job. Anyway, I'm at a bit of a loss, so any suggestions will be helpful.

 

[empoleon dynamite]

I like UU Pokemon but I don't think i'd use them in OU. Might I suggest a Magnezone to remove Arbok's Skarmory and Bronzong counters. As for opposing Magnezone, I would think Arbok could outrun and OHKO with Earthquake (If not it isn't a huge threat).

If you don't like OU Magnezone, you could opt for a UU Probopass to kill steels. This doesn't help you're Fighting weekness though, it also adds some Earthquake trouble without Magnet Rise.

I think it's a good effort. As you said you need to get rid of that Infernape Weakness (Aerodactyl with Sash can switch in and OHKO) and keep testing it on Shoddy.

 

[The Outrage]

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Cloak
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Wake-Up Slap
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond

Against a Tyranitar with absolutely no defense or HP EVs, wake-up slap does 52.79% - 62.17%.

Against Tyraniboah, it doesn't even make fifty percent; 40.84% - 48.02%

You may want to consider Hypnosis against it though, since it does double the power of Wake-up slap. Even if it switches out, which it likely will, you can use thunderwave immediately after. If they don't switch, then it becomes a mind game - Are they gonna switch and should I try to paralyze, or should I go on the offensive.

I don't see why you should try to suicide so quickly.

Empoleon, anything with Focus Sash that's fast and powerful can counter anythign with weak defenses and is slower, of course, it only works once, and its not like they're dumb enough to stay in as Aerodactyl uses Earthquake.

You can try Slowking (for some reason on a guide I wrote I put Slowbro), who unlike its dimwitted counterpart can get in on non-nasty plot Grass Knots*, but will need EV investment to survive NP ones. Its typing and decent defense stat keeps it from being hurt by Close Combats.

*Grass Knot does 80 base power on Slowking, you'll need to input it in manually since MK's calculator has a glitch on it for Grass Knot. Luckily I remembered Swampert's power and they weigh practically the same.

 

[Reed]

First of all, thank you both for the suggestions. I may have something to try out, but it will have to wait until later.

I like UU Pokemon but I don't think i'd use them in OU. Might I suggest a Magnezone to remove Arbok's Skarmory and Bronzong counters. As for opposing Magnezone, I would think Arbok could outrun and OHKO with Earthquake (If not it isn't a huge threat).

If you don't like OU Magnezone, you could opt for a UU Probopass to kill steels. This doesn't help you're Fighting weekness though, it also adds some Earthquake trouble without Magnet Rise.

I can't say that my success with my old team was anything more than 'moderate', but I had some very fun and close battles with it. I think that I almost had a breakthrough, but the more that I refined it, the more crushing my defeats were. Anyway, I've never been too fond of Probopass, but I might try out Magnezone.

You may want to consider Hypnosis against it though, since it does double the power of Wake-up slap. Even if it switches out, which it likely will, you can use thunderwave immediately after. If they don't switch, then it becomes a mind game - Are they gonna switch and should I try to paralyze, or should I go on the offensive.

I don't see why you should try to suicide so quickly.

Sounds like fun times to me. I figured that Destiny Bond would be viable enough since Froslass is frail, but you're right; there's no reason to sacrifice her so early when she can keep making my opponent's life miserable. I'll drop that in favour of Hypnosis.
Edit: I must not have been thinking when I wrote this. Hypnosis over Taunt is probably the better option.

You can try Slowking (for some reason on a guide I wrote I put Slowbro), who unlike its dimwitted counterpart can get in on non-nasty plot Grass Knots*, but will need EV investment to survive NP ones. Its typing and decent defense stat keeps it from being hurt by Close Combats.

It's funny that you should mention Slowking because a while back, I thought that it would be kind of neat to use. I'll work out a set later tonight and try it out along with Magnezone.

Aside from those two, I was trying to think of some special sweepers, preferably ones that wouldn't have trouble with Earthquake, and while looking through some BL Pokémon, I came across Mesprit. As this is a Wi-Fi team and I caught my Mesprit before I got into competitive battling, this is far from ideal, but I ran its stats through Psypoke's IV calculator:

Nature: Lonely
HP: 30-31
Atk: 8-9
Def: 16-17
SpA: 18-19
SpD: 2-3
Spe: 18-19

Mostly mediocre, poor Atk and SpD (which is disappointing with its Nature), but that HP is pretty shiny. I found out that HP [Fighting] 66 was possible with those IVs, but after some testing, it turned out to be Water. That's a real shame because if it had been Fighting, Mesprit and I would have had merry adventures.

 

[The Outrage]

Edit: I must not have been thinking when I wrote this. Hypnosis over Taunt is probably the better option.

Yeah, I was thinking ovver Taunt aswell. Keep destiny bond for later on.

As for Mesprit, its mroe of a pseudo cresselia. I completely forgot about it, it too is likely able to counter Infernape, though your Mesprit is looking rather mediocre.

I personally like the Mismagius running Calm mind/Substitue/Shadow Ball/HP [fight] though it uses Hidden power D:

Are you sure you want a special sweeper? Why not just go mixed? Or have something to kill Skarmory and don't have a special sweeper all together. Standard play is pretty physical oriented anyway, and you won't have to worry about pink fat whores

 

[ShinyFlareon]

If you're willing to to for BL pokemon, why not try Uxie? It's immune to Earthquake, and though it's admittedly more of a tank than Mespirit, base 75 Sp. Attack isn't that bad. It works great as a backup supporter for Gardevior, being able to set up Stealth Rock and having access to Yawn (a move I personally love). If you go for a supporter, Smogon recommeds an Impish or Relaxed nature. However, I personally wouldn't want to be wasting that base 95 Speed or that Special Attack stat, so it's really up to your preferance.

Uxie@Leftovers
(insert defensive- or special defensive-based nature of your choice here)
252HP/252Def/4SpD OR 252HP/4Def/252SpD (depending on what kind of hits you're most worried about)
-- Yawn
-- Stealth Rock
-- U-turn
-- Thunderbolt/Psychic/Protect

T-bolt gives you your Gyarados counter and helps with Skarmory, Psychic gives you STAB against Infernape, and Protect lets you abuse Leftovers. Pretty straightforward.

Of course, if you're looking for a purely Special Sweeper with an immunity to Earthquake and are willing to use an OU pokemon, I don't think you can go much better than Azelf. With Base 125 in both attacking stats and Base 115 Speed, access to Nasty Plot, and an extremely wide special movepool, this little bugger is nothing to sneeze at. Personally, I like the Nasty Plot set given by Smogon:

Azelf@Expert Belt
Timid Nature
36Hp/252SpA/220Speed
-- Nasty Plot
-- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-- Grass Knot/HP Fighting
-- Psychic

Here, you've got your Steel problems solved, and which fire move you pick is really a matter of preference. Me, I like Grass Knot for the better coverage, but if you can get HP Fighting, then you've also got a great Blissy and Snorlax counter too -- it also solves your problems against Dark-types and stops Heatran from completely walling you. Psychic for STAB, of course. With an Expert Belt and a few Nasty Plots, nothing's going to be stopping THIS thing anytime soon.

 

[Reed]

About Uxie and Azelf, keep in mind that this is a Wi-Fi team and I've already caught them, so Natures and IVs aren't my call. I like the idea, though, so I'll do some calculations:

Uxie
Timid Nature
HP: 14-15
Atk: 6-7
Def: 26-27
SpA: 24-25
SpD: 4-5
Spe: 26-27

Azelf
Modest Nature
HP: 22-23
Atk: 16-17
Def: 0-1
SpA: 24-25
SpD: 18-19
Spe: 20-21

I'll find out their Hidden Power types when I have the time to make some money. You also bring up Heatran, and I've realized that I didn't take it into account at all. Arbok has Earthquake, but Heatran desperately needs to be paralyzed because I don't want to deal with the possibility of it being Scarfed.

As for Mesprit, its mroe of a pseudo cresselia. I completely forgot about it, it too is likely able to counter Infernape, though your Mesprit is looking rather mediocre.

I personally like the Mismagius running Calm mind/Substitue/Shadow Ball/HP [fight] though it uses Hidden power D:

Are you sure you want a special sweeper? Why not just go mixed? Or have something to kill Skarmory and don't have a special sweeper all together. Standard play is pretty physical oriented anyway, and you won't have to worry about pink fat whores

It really disappoints me that my Mesprit got dealt such a bad hand because I would love to use it. With HP Water at 66 base power, it could function on a Rain Dance team, but that's when I really start stretching for a use and get into "Because I want to," territory. On the other hand, it wouldn't be awful against Heatran, but the low SpD lets it down. Speaking of Cresselia, mine is Sassy with 30-31 SpD, but cripplingly low Def. Seems to be the case with all of my legendaries; they get a few nice IVs, but then severely nerfed by the rest.

I really like Mismagius, and that's a nice set, but it goes without saying that Hidden Power is difficult to use on Wi-Fi. I didn't even want to bother with IVs because it's so time-consuming and my team did well enough without taking them into consideration, but if I'm going to improve, then I need to start making more of an effort. I think that it was you who helped with my bulky Heracross, but I still haven't managed to breed one that I'm satisfied with. I haven't exactly been persistent about it, and I've been playing Emerald more than Diamond, but it's still been a while. The few Adamant Heracross that I did manage to get were male, so I couldn't breed for the Nature, and they lacked the IVs in certain areas to use well. It was around that point when I said to myself, "Shit, when did I become Paul?"

Hey, look at me ramble. Back to the task at hand. If I use Magnezone, then I won't have to worry much about Skarmory, so a mixed sweeper might be the way to go. I tried Blaziken once on Shoddy, but that doesn't exactly help with my Ground weakness. I still think that I need a Flying-type or something that Levitates to switch into Earthquake. Charizard fits the bill and covers Skarmory and Bronzong, but without a spinner, there's no way that I'm attempting it. Failing that, a Grass-type that can resist Earthquake well would be fine by me. Parasect comes to mind because of its 4x Ground resistance, and with Thunder Waves going around, it almost seems possible that it might not end in disaster.

And now I'm delusional.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

About Uxie and Azelf, keep in mind that this is a Wi-Fi team and I've already caught them, so Natures and IVs aren't my call. I like the idea, though, so I'll do some calculations:

Uxie
Timid Nature
HP: 14-15
Atk: 6-7
Def: 26-27
SpA: 24-25
SpD: 4-5
Spe: 26-27

Azelf
Modest Nature
HP: 22-23
Atk: 16-17
Def: 0-1
SpA: 24-25
SpD: 18-19
Spe: 20-21

I'll find out their Hidden Power types when I have the time to make some money. You also bring up Heatran, and I've realized that I didn't take it into account at all. Arbok has Earthquake, but Heatran desperately needs to be paralyzed because I don't want to deal with the possibility of it being Scarfed.

Glad you like my ideas -- the low Special Defense IV really hurts your Uxie, but you got REALLY lucky with your Azelf. Good nature, and the only really crappy IV is Defense, which you probably wouldn't be relying on anyway. I'm also glad I alerted you to Heatran -- I thought you had thought of that possibility.

 

[Reed]

Well, I was overly focused on Infernape, and I don't recall seeing Heatran on Wi-Fi before.

I know that I'm not taking all of my threats into account here, but I realized that there is a Pokémon that can take Rock and Ground attacks. This was just put together in about ten minutes, so I'm sure that it could use some work, but it's just a thought.

Torterra @ Leftovers/Yache Berry
Ability: Overgrow
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Def
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Roar

I didn't invest in speed here because, like Arbok and Absol, Torterra wants to come in when the enemy is paralyzed. This allows it to boost its defense somewhat while still dealing heavy damage. Roar is for phazing, and I'm considering Yache Berry over Leftovers to deal with Weavile. That makes Wood Hammer a bit painful, though.

While I'm at it...

Azelf @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Nasty Plot

This doesn't seem optimal to me. It would be nice to fit Grass Knot on here, but I no longer have the TM, and Thunderbolt deals with Gyarados. Of course, it can also hit Infernape with Psychic and switch into Earthquakes. It's already been mentioned, but I'm not sure that I badly need a special sweeper. It seems that this spot could be better filled with something that resists Fire.

 

[Reed]

I wanted to do some more testing before posting here again, but I haven't had the time, so I'll just present what I've learned.

Froslass doesn't learn Hypnosis. That may be why I didn't initially consider it for the set. I think that I'll switch her to Timid and give her Ice Beam over Wake-Up Slap. She can't do anything to Tyranitar, but at least Ice Beam lets her deal with Hippowdon. Weavile, I can just Thunder Wave. It will likely Pursue me to death, but that's what Destiny Bond is for.

Four of my Pokémon (Gardevoir, Absol, Torterra and Azelf) are weak to Bug-type attacks. Azelf does its job all right, but I'm not sure that I need it, so it will probably be dropped. I considered Bellyzard in its place to keep a Ground immunity, but I have no way to get a Charmander onto my Emerald to learn Fire Punch, and I would need a spinner to make it work.

Ice Fang is a neat move for Arbok. Torterra has Earthquake covered, and although Arbok still can't do anything to Skarmory, Ice Fang takes out other Flying-types. I might be better off with Fire Fang, though, or even keeping Earthquake and finding another way to deal with Flying and immune Steel-types.

Roar is a thing of beauty because I hate Ninjask. Unfortunately, Torterra is weak to Bug, but for some reason, the Ninjask that I fought didn't seem to have X-Scissor. That guy's entire team was strange, though. He used Ninjask, Marowak, Squirtle, Charmander, Pikachu and Crobat.

Anyway, those are the issues that I immediately see. I also have no counter to Heatran, as both of my Earthquake users are weak to its common moves. Tentacruel could be something to consider to solve my Heatran and Infernape problems, not to mention giving me another Ice Beam user and Toxic Spikes to ruin Sashes.

 

[Sigmon]

Gardevoir walls heteran to death with trace and cripples it with twave/hypnosis so you might want to look into teaching it hypnosis

 

[Reed]

An amusing fact: Flash Fire was one of the abilities that came to mind when I realized how good Trace is. Don't ask me how I didn't realize Gardevoir's usefulness in countering Heatran. Thank you for pointing it out, though.

I'm not sure where Hypnosis can fit on the set. I need Psychic for Infernape, and Reflect and Wish for team support. I'm always busy these days, but once I test Gardevoir a bit, I'll see if I can fit Hypnosis on the set.

 

[Sigmon]

Also you have to keep wish if you attack hetrean incase it trys to switch to dragon pulse/ earth power
Also Gardevoir can do all sorts of neet things like counter ddgyra with intimidate but you have to use t bolt for that

 

[Reed]

Hmm. Thunderbolt would at least deal neutral damage to Heatran. I would just need to use someone else against Infernape and be very careful with Ground-types. Tentacruel covers that to some extent, but can't switch into Earthquake. Then again, Gardevoir's Reflect could come into play.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Unless you're planning on making your sixth team member a psychic- or water-type, I wouldn't eschew STAB Psychic on Gardevoir for Infernape. Still, the opportunity to counter Gyarados needs to be looked at, so why not make your sixth team member a bulky/supporting Water-type and give Gardevoir a sweeping moveset? Vaporeon would work well in this role, especially with it's resistance to Earthquake, which seems to worry you.

There's always the option of a Modest Starmie with Psychic/Surf/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam and either an Expert Belt or Choice Specs if you want to keep your Gardevoir roughly the same as it is now, though. Psychic can stay for Infernape and neutral STAB on most things, Surf for Heatran, Thunderbolt for Gyarados, and Ice Beam for dragons (which I've noticed you really don't have a counter for). This will have some trouble against Tyranitar, who's Special Defense is boosted out of OHKO range from Surf due to Sand Stream, and who has access to STAB Crunch and Pursuit, but it still does some pretty nice damage all around.

Of course, if you wanna stay with BL pokemon, Floatzel or Ludicolo could work nicely. Both are resistant to Earthquake, and Floatzel's speed is beyond excellent.

 

[Reed]

Er, Water-types don't resist Earthquake. Tentacruel can only take Earth Powers because it has such great Special Defense, and it outruns non-Scarfed Heatran. I love Vaporeon, and I have one that stalls beautifully (Rest and a Chesto Berry outlast Recover when Toxistalling, which allowed it to take down a Milotic gloriously), but it doesn't have Wish. I could raise another one, but I'd prefer to use something new. On that note, I'd really like to keep Gardevoir as my supporter. Psychic or Thunderbolt, I'll decide through testing. Starmie is a very good idea, though. I actually have a Timid one with these IVs:

HP: 8-9
Atk: 1-2
Def: 29
SpA: 30-31
SpD: 27-28
Spe: 15-16

However, I really need to watch out for Boah. Only Torterra and Absol can deal significant damage to it, but Torterra is taken out by Ice Beam and Absol by Focus Punch. I'm still lacking Fighting-type attacks. Floatzel could use Brick Break or Focus Punch, and Rain Dance would be nice for weakening Infernape and Heatran. Unfortunately, the best that it can do for a physical Ice attack is Ice Fang, which makes Starmie the superior choice for taking down both Dragons and Gliscor. Well, that is unless I go for a mixed Floatzel. Chain Chomp can pull it off with even less Special Attack, after all.

Actually, that sounds sort of interesting...

Floatzel @ Damp Rock / Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Mild
EVs: 72 HP / 88 Atk / 252 SpA / 80 SpD / 16 Spe
- Rain Dance
- Ice Beam
- Waterfall / Surf
- Brick Break

According to Smogon, 16 Speed EVs allow Floatzel to outrun Adamant Heracross before a Rain Dance. Giving it a Damp Rock keeps Infernape and Heatran under control, but Leftovers would be better for longevity. The EV spread is designed to allow it to take special attacks better, since those are what I need to watch for when using a Water-type. Waterfall gets a boost from Rain Dance and has the possibility of flinching, but Surf has more power and compliments the stat that I'm focusing the most on. Un-STABed Ice Fang hardly dents Gliscor, but Ice Beam takes it out along with any Dragon-type except for Garchomp, since no Garchomp goes into battle without a Yache Berry these days. Finally, Brick Break is for Tyranitar, Weavile and Blissey. Mostly Tyranitar.

 

[Sigmon]

Th craptastic hp Iv on the starmie is a big turn off but what is the starmie's characteristic?

 

[Reed]

It is, but most of my Pokémon weren't bred with IVs in mind. Like I said, I didn't want to even bother with them until recently because it's just time-consuming and my team generally does all right.

Starmie's characteristic is 'highly curious', making its Special Attack IV 30.

 

[Reed]

Time to post some more findings.

Yanmega is a problem, and so is anything with a Focus Sash. Magnezone has given me some trouble, as well, but Gardevoir is attempting to cover it by Tracing Magnet Pull. Lacking special attackers, Skarmory waltzes through my team, mostly because entry hazards shut me down. Froslass is an amazing lead who, in an average battle, takes out two Pokémon, sometimes only paralyzing one. Deoxys-S is bothersome, but I'm not worried because I don't expect to be facing any on Wi-Fi. Gardevoir's Reflect doesn't help much, and she has trouble setting it up at all, so I've given her Leftovers and Focus Blast to help with Magnezone. I'm very sad that Arbok is having such problems. I tried swapping its Life Orb for Leftovers, but I still can't switch it in effectively, and its coverage is very limited. Absol is a beautiful Pokémon that gives my opponent all manner of grief. Torterra pulls its weight, but I'm finding that its attacking moves are not optimal. That Yache Berry definitely comes in handy, though. Finally, Floatzel actually did lure out a Gliscor and Ice Beam it to death, but it's too frail to do much switching. I've tried Starmie over it with a little more success, though I'm still unsure.

I can't exactly get into more details right now, but my immediate concerns are filling Floatzel's spot and making some use of Arbok. If the latter is not possible (which will make me sad because I love Arbok to death), then I need to decide what role my new Pokémon should serve. A spinner would probably help, or someone who can ruin Sashes.

 

[Sigmon]

Maybe you should replace arbok or flotzel with a rapid spinner