VGC Team Halp - Weird Team

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SuperFamicorn

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I've got a weird team that seems OK but I feel like there's something wrong/missing (I have a feeling that I know who everyone will call the weakest link). What should I fix/what other Pokemon should I have in my box? I posted here because I couldn't figure out which place to post in, and I can't really determine what direction I should be taking with my team.

Luvdisc
Item: Leftover
Nature: Modest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 SPD/ 252 SPA / 252 HP
Moves:
~ Surf (Thinking of replacing with Venoshock)
~ Toxic
~ Attract
~ Sweet Kiss

Luvdisc is supposed to throw a bunch of status conditions for as long as it can/is needed. It relies on Greninja to protect it in the first turn w/ Mat Block, which is sort of ruined by Fake Out sometimes. Surf was put in there as an attack in the event that I were to be desperately relying on Luvdisc to win, but I might replace it with Venoshock because I cant really use Surf w/o hurting myself.
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Greninja
Item: Never-Melt Ice
Nature: Timid
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SPA / 252 SPE
Moves:
~ Hydro Pump
~ Extrasensory
~ Mat Block
~ Ice Beam

Greninja, as previously mentioned, is meant to protect Luvdisc for the first round and take out any threats from there. I feel like my type coverage could be better, and so for now I have Luvdisc pile statuses on them.
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Kangaskhan
Item: Kangaskhanite
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 ATK / 252 SPE
Moves:
~ Earthquake
~ Sucker Punch
~ Fake Out
~ Chip Away

This is here for for obvious reasons. Earthquake's slot once had Power-Up Punch, but I found that it was too weak and that the stat boost wasn't seeming to change that much.
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Garchomp
Item: Rocky Helmet
Nature: Impish
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 ATK / 252 HP / 252 DEF
Moves:
~ Dragon Claw
~ Crunch
~ Earthquake
~ Sandstorm

This one was added in when I realized that my team was pretty weak and probably needed a tank-ish guy. I was trying to do the whole Dragon Tail Stealth Rock thing, but then I came to earn that Stealth Rock is not available in Gen 6 (I was already trained to level 90), so Im trying to figure out what I can do with this.
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And that's my horrible mes. I'm guessing the first step is finding a purpose/guide for my team to follow?
 
Hi! Yeah this is the right place so you're fine :)

Disclaimer before jumping in: I'm a little sleepy so feel free to raise your concerns if I say anything that doesn't make sense.

Firstly, I'd suggest having the full team of 6 Pokemon in your team. Even though you might not be using all of the members, at the very least it's good to have all 6 in a tactical sense to make your opponent question which 4 you'll pick. One of the earliest strategic battles is during team preview when both players see each other's teams, as they'll use that chance to predict what they'll use.

The next point (which you already mentioned) is that the team doesn't seem to have a central strategy. Besides Mat Block protecting your team there's not a lot of cohesiveness between the team. Having Garchomp set up a sandstorm while the other members do not benefit (and are actually harmed by it) doesn't help it mesh well with the group, and yeah as you said it's hard to use Surf since you'll be hitting your partner.

To be continued, let me just rest my eyes...
 
Garchomp is pretty good, I just reccomend something other than sandstorm. Maybe sand tomb, Rock Slide, Brick Break, Poison Jab.

I also feel like a Drizzle Politoed to work with your swift swim Luvdisc. Maybe:

Politoed
Drizzle
Modest
Damp Rock
252 HP/ 4 DEF/ 252 SPATK
Surf/Scald/Hydro Pump
Focus Blast
Blizzard/Ice Beam
Psychic

I also feel like a dry skin Heliolisk, but that would classify your team as functioning in rain. It would work, but It's up to you. If your not going to use rain I would have a Lumineon with Storm Drain as swift swim isn't doing anything.
 
Yeah, I originally had Rain Dance where Toxic is, but I removed it for reasons that, oddly enough, I don't remember 100%, but I think was because I was trying to stack as many conditions as possible because confusion and love can disappear.
 
Ok that nap messed with my head more than I expected but I'm back.

- If you're going to use Luvdisc then I suggest making use of Swift Swim, but overall I would recommend using something else. Attract only works as long as Luvdisc is on the field and its defenses aren't suited for taking hits so you won't get a lot of mileage out of it. If you're going with status I suggest trying out using something with Prankster or a Pokemon that is able to shrug off hits. VGC is a fast-paced environment so using a turn for a status move (rather than attacking) doesn't really see benefits until the long run, so it's best suited on a Pokemon that can survive so you get its benefits. Also keep in mind that status can be bypassed by Safeguard, Protect, switching out, or knocking out your Pokemon before you use the status move. If you're going with a status setter on the first turn you can try out Dark Void Smeargle. *shudder*
- I haven't used Greninja in VGC but I've always seen Mat Block on it. I would suggest using a different item as Never-Melt Ice only boosts Ice Beam, you can go with Life Orb (guaranteed power boost in exchange for HP recoil) or Expert Belt (no HP recoil but power boost is situational). If you end up going with a team that makes use of Water attacks (Water Absorb, Storm Drain, etc.) then you can go with Surf but Hydro Pump is a good move for picking off a single target. Scald can also be an option but consider the trade-off of power vs. accuracy/burn chance. Extrasensory is standing out to me because it doesn't offer a lot of coverage, you can try Dark Pulse over it as it gives you more options against Steel types.
- Any particular reason you're running Chip Away? Return gives you more raw power and there are other options if you're experimenting with STAB attacks (Stomp, Dizzy Punch). Keep in mind that Earthquake will not hit twice on VGC battles but if it's working for you then you can keep it. I'd advise about putting Power-Up Punch back in the set as a +2 Attack boost will make M-Kangaskhan very threatening. Power-Up Punch doesn't really mesh well with Fake Out though as Fake Out can only be used once before switching out, which would remove the Attack boosts you'll get.
- As with my previous point with using status moves, using up a turn to activate Sandstorm (which damages your other teammates) isn't the best role for Garchomp. If you're leaning towards a sandstorm team then I recommend adding in Hippowdon or Tyranitar to set up the sandstorm automatically. I'd say give Garchomp Protect/Rock Slide/Dragon Claw/Earthquake and just make it into an attacking set rather than defensive. Even with focusing on Garchomp's bulk it still suffers from a 4x weakness to Ice so you might be better off knocking out the threats before they even get a chance to challenge your bulk.

As you said yourself it feels like you need to plan out the purpose of the team before you keep going. Figure out what strategy you want to do and gather Pokemon that accomplish that goal. Although you might end up using the same 4 Pokemon most of the time look for alternatives that can help fill in, in case of a bad matchup or if you need to counter a particular strategy.
 
Yeah, while I still don't have a clear strategy, I feel like a more Water-based team may be a start for me (according to a Wiccan friend, this so happens to be my element!). I would like to keep Luvdisc, but I am definitely going to make some serious adjustments to her moveset if I do (replacing Attract T^T7), possibly Scald because it has the burn chance + STAB + stick with Luvdisc's 'status theme'. I already have adjusted Garchomp and Greninja's movesets as suggested. While I probably should replace it, I have held off on Return replacing Chip Away because I'm not entirely sure how to keep a constant 255 friendship (or is it automatically set to a fixed number in multiplayer?), and Chip Away seems to work so far (though this was in Battle Institute, so maybe not...). One question I do have is if it is necessary to go to lvl100 when training. Do your stats always average down to the same numbers whether you're 51 or 100? I've personally felt like I've done better in battles after training to 100, but it may just be wanting to think that.
 
If you ever need to practice your teams you can try out Pokemon Showdown! or feel free to contact me for a battle :)

Another point on Luvdisc is to mainly invest in its survivability if its focus is to spread status. You won't need it to hit hard, you just need it to survive enough so that it can do its thing. With the speed boost from Swift Swim then you might not even need any EV investment on Speed. Though if you're keeping Luvdisc as a lead then you're probably looking at a Politoed to partner with it, which sacrifices having Mat Block out.

No need to worry about friendship going down, I'm not sure when they changed it but friendship doesn't reset when a Pokemon's stored in the PC. As for the stats, they're adjusted to what they would be regardless of what level the Pokemon is, i.e. two identical Pokemon (one level 51 and the other level 100) will have the same stats when both are adjusted to level 50/100. So it just comes down to their natures/IVs/EVs.
 
With that "Tanky Guy", Assault Vest Metagross wouldn't be too bad. Um, I feel like Prankster Sabeleye/Klefki/Tornadus. I also feel like Infiltrator Spiritomb. Just some status options there, not to replace Lumineon, but to let them work with it:

Tornadus
Damp Rock
Prankster
Timid
252 HP/252 SPATK/ 4 SPD or 252 HP/ 126 SPATK/ 126 SPD
Rain Dance
Tailwind
Hurricane
Attract (If Lumineon is Female)/Sludge Bomb/Torment/Taunt

This would replace the need for a Politoed. I know the EV sets are weird, but I don't use Tornadus much so feel free to vhange them up as you please.

I'll post what I think for the others in half an hour as I'm just a little busy at the moment.

EDIT: Here are the others:

Sabeleye
Prankster
Damp Rock/Leftovers
Careful/Impish
252 HP/ 126 SPDEF/ 130 SPDEF or 252 HP/ 100 ATK/76 DEF/ 80 SPDEF (May have done a wrong Calculation
Poison Jab
Toxic/Will-O-Wisp
Rain Dance/ Confuse Ray/ Mean Look
Recover

Rain Dance is there for the same reason as it is for Tornadus. To Replace Politoed. The moveset can be shifted a little but you know. It can also be another Support Pokemon.

Klefki
Leftovers/Damp Rock
Prankster
Impish/Careful
252 HP/ 126 DEF/ 130 SPDEF
Spikes
Rain Dance/Toxic
Light Screen
Reflect

Again, just replacing Politoed. This isn't nearly as good as Sabeleye but you know, it can provide screen support which is something useful (also something Sableye doesn't have).

I can't remember what I put Infiltrator spiritomb down for but anyway. You don't have to use any of these, or politoed, I'm just making suggestions.

Cheers.
 
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Yeah, I'm starting to think that Politoed is going to be my 5th on the team as another option for opening. Someone is likely going to have an Electric move because, from what I understand, they never miss in the rain, and Luvdisc may have to be switched out early (I've noticed she works as a lure for physical attackers that dont expect Garchomp), so it wouldn't be doing anything for anyone. I'm not very good at 'predicting' before a match in the sense that I don't have movesets/stats memorized, so I wouldn't know whether to open with Politoed or Greninja.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Luvdisc is already lv100, so will I have to get a new one so the EVs apply? I've heard that you need to level up a Pokemon before they take effect.
 
Just to clarify, it is only Thunder (and Hurricane) that do not miss in the rain. As for learning how to read your opponent that's something that usually comes with practice and experience so you'll get there :) But it's always good to start looking out for those things...if you see an Electric Pokemon then maybe you can lead with Swampert (Water/Ground and whose Mega Evolution would be devastating in the rain). If you study your team's weaknesses beforehand then you can keep a slot available for a Pokemon that can deal with those threats which you will bring out when needed.

If you have a Reset Bag then you can fix Luvdisc's EVs and they should be applied when you use it in battle. Ever since Generation V, EVs are recalculated after each battle rather than only after leveling up so you should be fine.
 
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Alright, I'm REALLY glad I don't have to get a new Luvdisc because she's shiny. I'll have time to study my team tonight. Also, I've also started playing online in Battle Spot and am doing better than I thought I would. Is there any way to link a Battle Video online through Global Link if that would make it easier to help figure out what I'm doing wrong, or would I have to record it with a camera?
 
Alrighty, here they are:

DJ6W WWWW WWWA EXYZ
SDLW WWWW WWWA EXYQ
TG3G WWWW WWWA EXYU
6J5W WWWW WWWA EXJW
FHQW WWWW WWWA EXJ5
MGWG WWWW WWWA EXJ6
588W WWWW WWWA EJX8

I have to say, it's much more satisfying fighting a human.
 
SuperFamicorn said:
Alrighty, here they are:
DJ6W WWWW WWWA EXYZ - Mat Block's weakness is that it gets outsped by priority (Thundurus's Prankster) and anything faster than Greninja (Landorus with a Choice Scarf) so Mat Block didn't help you here. With M-Kangaskhan burned its Attack gets cut in half so it won't be hitting hard. Garchomp did pretty well, though I'm not sure what set you have on it. The biggest takeaway here is to know when Mat Block would get outsped. Also you might want to reconsider the order of status that Luvdisc uses: if you lead off with confusion that might net you some extra turns if the opponent hits themselves.
SDLW WWWW WWWA EXYQ - Nice confusion lead, just be mindful that Toxic and Poison-type moves do not work on Steel types. Power-Up Punch would have crumpled Magnezone so you could have went with it, the opponent was consistently using Zap Cannon which only hits half the time...coupled with confusion you had a good chance of not getting hit.
TG3G WWWW WWWA EXYU - This battle was disconnected so not much to say...just remember that Sweet Kiss does not have perfect accuracy so be aware of it.
6J5W WWWW WWWA EXJW - The opponent overcomes confusion by switching out M-Gardevoir and their Mienshao lived a little too long...Ice Beam on Lapras won't be doing a lot of damage so you should have opted for another attack or targeted Mienshao instead. It would have been better to use Fake Out over Chip Away when M-Kangaskhan came out so you were guaranteed that M-Gardevoir wasn't going to hit you but with 3 Pokemon left to beat it was an uphill battle.
FHQW WWWW WWWA EXJ5 - Another instance of status being overcome by the switch, it's also noticeable here that Luvdisc is outsped by a lot of things which means that confusion wouldn't pay off until the next turn. Swift Swim is a very useful ability so I recommend to make use of it. It would have been preferable to use Ice Beam on Togekiss rather than Gastrodon as Togekiss is more of an attacker and Gastrodon is meant for bulky support (you can see how Gastrodon supported the team by protecting Ninetales from Water attacks) but you'll pick that up in time. In this case the opponent was switching around a lot so Toxic/confusion didn't have a chance to cause too much damage, which kinda goes back to my point of how status works best in the long run. Work your strategy to make sure the poison takes its toll or take advantage when your opponent switches around too much. But do keep in mind that VGC battles usually don't go on for too long.
MGWG WWWW WWWA EXJ6 - Ice Beam would have been the better move against M-Garchomp as it is Dragon/Ground and would have taken 4x damage. Confusion's a fickle thing as you can see here, M-Garchomp snapped out of confusion without hitting itself. Another point to remember your typings, Power-Up Punch would have hit Tyranitar for 4x damage as it is Rock/Dark while it takes half the damage from Chip Away.
588W WWWW WWWA EJX8 - Can't find the battle for this code, maybe a typo?
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I meant to go through the battles piece-wise in between breaks but I sat through all of them in one go :p
I have to say, it's much more satisfying fighting a human.
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That it is, glad you're enjoying it.

Overall not a bad start. Make sure to learn your typings and make use of having 2 Pokemon out to focus a single target. You'll become more familiar with your team and get a feel for what works and what doesn't so you can get a better idea how to battle in certain scenarios.
 
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Yeah, I noticed a lot of my rustiness when it comes to Pokemon still not fully washed out; I swear when I as, like, ten, I had the dex + types down by heart. I'll keep a chart on hand for now until I have it down.

Also, on a side note, how can you be sure your Politoed will have Drizzle when it evolves?
 
Haha it'll all come back the more you play. I mean with over 700 Pokemon it starts to blend in sometimes :p

If the Poliwag/Poliwhirl has Swift Swim (its Hidden Ability) then the Politoed will end up with Drizzle. You can find them in hordes at the Pokemon Village...you'll need to find a way to figure out if they have Swift Swim or just catch them and get lucky. It looks like I have an extra one if you're also interested.
 
I was going to just breed it, but I'm having yet another case of the "every-other-IV-and-Ability-combination-except-the-one-i-need", so I might trade, unless I edit this otherwise.

EDIT: I edited it otherwise
 
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Haha sure thing. The extra one I have is a Jolly female in a Dive Ball and I'm not sure about its IVs. The one I use for breeding has a Bold nature if that's what you're aiming for, so I can hatch a few eggs for you. It's not usually much trouble and it gives me a chance to maybe hatch for shinies.

Bit off-topic but someone apparently Wonder traded me a shiny Poliwhirl @_@
 
dude also off topic but ive been breeding this poliwas w/ a shiny mudkip i was wonder traded

but on topic, I hatched the right one and am letting the extra eggs hatch in case of shiny
 
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