WAR: Does Iran really have one of our drones?

[Tempa!]

I recently read this in the New York Times.

Iran said Friday that it had formally complained to the United Nations Security Council about what it called the hostile and aggressive behavior of the United States in sending a sophisticated radar-evading spy drone over Iranian territory, one that Iran’s military said it had intercepted and captured last weekend.The complaint, which appeared to have been made more for its propaganda value than for any Iranian hope of Security Council action, was announced a day after Iran showcased what it described as the captured drone on national television, as if it were a war trophy. Members of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps were shown displaying a bat-winged aircraft on a platform bedecked with anti-American slogans and a mock American flag with skulls instead of stars.

American officials reviewing the footage have declined to confirm or deny that it showed the same model as the RQ-170 Sentinel surveillance aircraft that they have acknowledged was lost recently by C.I.A. controllers based in Afghanistan, a lapse attributed to an unspecified technical malfunction. But military experts have said privately that the Iranians appear to have an RQ-170, one of the Pentagon’s most technologically advanced reconnaissance drones.

How that happened remained unclear. Iran has asserted that it captured the aircraft via a cyberattack, saying its armed forces detected the drone on Sunday over northern Iran and were able to guide it to a safe landing about 155 miles from the Afghanistan border.

Well, what do you guys think?

Does Iran actually have a drone, or is it just propaganda which is fuel for America's tension with Iran?

 

[99unownoak]

I think they are telling the truth, and America would deny it if it wasn't.

In the words of Ayatollah Khomeini "America can't do a damn thing against us".

 

[vuvuzela2010]

Well, I can't say I blame them. I wonder what the reaction would be if it was an Iranian drone that had been shot down over the US?

 

[Tempa!]

Well, I can't say I blame them. I wonder what the reaction would be if it was an Iranian drone that had been shot down over the US?

The US would react harshly to something like that. I wouldn't even be surprised if the US would declare war if that was ever to happen.
But, at this point it's fair game, considering that we made the first move.

 

[DerMißingno]

A top secret spy drone without a self destruct? Either Iran is lying or American engineers have gotten extremely sloppy.

Well, I can't say I blame them. I wonder what the reaction would be if it was an Iranian drone that had been shot down over the US?

Haha, like Iran is even close to having anything that can fly over the US.

 

[Tempa!]

A top secret spy drone without a self destruct? Either Iran is lying or American engineers have gotten extremely sloppy.

Definitely the latter.

I dunno, that could be a model of a drone in the picture.

 

[DerMißingno]

Definitely the latter.

I dunno, that could be a model of a drone in the picture.

I would agree with you if destroying evidence wasn't pretty much spying 101. Even U-2 and SR-71 pilots had to carry suicide pills with them on missions. Of course the problem with humans is that they can choose not to take them, like Francis Gary Powers did. This would not be the case with a drone since it has no desire to preserve itself.

I think they used photoshop, just like they used photoshop to make it look like they tested more missiles than they did. If it is real, I hope they sell it to the Chinese so we can maybe get a new space race underway.

 

[League]

Hmm, let's see here:

1) No one doubts the Iranians actually have the drone. As far as "propaganda" is concerned, well, this is presumably a great victory for the Iranians (see 4), though it's not a victory due to any real propaganda value. As far as the US and propaganda is concerned... the US never really uses or needs propaganda, as the "defense constituency" is the smallest constituency. The closest thing to American propaganda in the last few years was Obama's constant touting of his approval of the mission that killed bin Laden (that as if to prove his foreign policy as a whole wasn't weak). That doesn't even qualify. It might be a minor propaganda to say that Iran actively brought down the drone if it didn't indeed do so (see 3).
2) This drone isn't an ordinary drone - it could roughly be considered a "stealth" drone. That heightens the worries as to what the Iranians actually do with the drone.
3) I don't think Iran brought this down through an "electronic" attack (as in, an attack meant to jam but preserve the aircraft).
4) I too initially wondered, as some others might here (TheKnittingno. already made some mention), why this drone just floated down, and had no self destruct function / impulse. I've heard from one on the news though that there might be a self-destruct impulse if this thing is taken apart in the wrong way - such would make a good deal of sense, as no one wants drones to explode in the proper hands when there is a minor error. However, all this might be an optimistic take.

5) Iran--Iran is already at war with the United States. It's the largest state sponsor of terrorism, and it's the primary antagonist and counter-influence in the region to all American "allies" (frenemies, really, in the majority of cases). If one assumes Stuxnet to be an American or American-Israeli project (or if one supposes America to have a hand in assassinating the scientists of Iran's nuclear program or missile systems), then America is already covertly taking some action against Iran's nuclear program. (But some suppose Stuxnet to have been a Russian weapon.) As well, I'd like to note that Iran pragmatically denies and deceives inspectors coming to its stations--unless one wishes to wink as this goes one, allowing the inevitable result of such action to come to fruition, one should pragmatically, at the very least, attempt to keep oneself in the know as to what goes on in the country.

At any rate, countries these days don't like declaring war. Everybody likes to do the most they can do with the least retribution.

 

[Tempa!]

I would agree with you if destroying evidence wasn't pretty much spying 101. Even U-2 and SR-71 pilots had to carry suicide pills with them on missions. Of course the problem with humans is that they can choose not to take them, like Francis Gary Powers did. This would not be the case with a drone since it has no desire to preserve itself.

I think they used photoshop, just like they used photoshop to make it look like they tested more missiles than they did. If it is real, I hope they sell it to the Chinese so we can maybe get a new space race underway.

If it's real, then I would expect them to try to remodel the drone somehow. But if Iran launches the drone into America's airspace, then it means war, no doubt.

 

[Tempa!]

Hmm, let's see here:

1) No one doubts the Iranians actually have the drone. As far as "propaganda" is concerned, well, this is presumably a great victory for the Iranians (see 4), though it's not a victory due to any real propaganda value. As far as the US and propaganda is concerned... the US never really uses or needs propaganda, as the "defense constituency" is the smallest constituency. The closest thing to American propaganda in the last few years was Obama's constant touting of his approval of the mission that killed bin Laden (that as if to prove his foreign policy as a whole wasn't weak). That doesn't even qualify. It might be a minor propaganda to say that Iran actively brought down the drone if it didn't indeed do so (see 3).
2) This drone isn't an ordinary drone - it could roughly be considered a "stealth" drone. That heightens the worries as to what the Iranians actually do with the drone.
3) I don't think Iran brought this down through an "electronic" attack (as in, an attack meant to jam but preserve the aircraft).
4) I too initially wondered, as some others might here (TheKnittingno. already made some mention), why this drone just floated down, and had no self destruct function / impulse. I've heard from one on the news though that there might be a self-destruct impulse if this thing is taken apart in the wrong way - such would make a good deal of sense, as no one wants drones to explode in the proper hands when there is a minor error. However, all this might be an optimistic take.

5) Iran--Iran is already at war with the United States. It's the largest state sponsor of terrorism, and it's the primary antagonist and counter-influence in the region to all American "allies" (frenemies, really, in the majority of cases). If one assumes Stuxnet to be an American or American-Israeli project (or if one supposes America to have a hand in assassinating the scientists of Iran's nuclear program or missile systems), then America is already covertly taking some action against Iran's nuclear program. (But some suppose Stuxnet to have been a Russian weapon.) As well, I'd like to note that Iran pragmatically denies and deceives inspectors coming to its stations--unless one wishes to wink as this goes one, allowing the inevitable result of such action to come to fruition, one should pragmatically, at the very least, attempt to keep oneself in the know as to what goes on in the country.

At any rate, countries these days don't like declaring war. Everybody likes to do the most they can do with the least retribution.

Abut 4...Drones usually do have a self-descruct mechanism when it's attacked or detects any oncoming hostility.
Why this drone didn't explode upon this allegedly happening is beyond me. So it must have been an electronic attack that brought it down, or else it would be destroyed.

 

[DerMißingno]

Hmm, let's see here:

1) No one doubts the Iranians actually have the drone.

I do =)

If it's real, then I would expect them to try to remodel the drone somehow. But if Iran launches the drone into America's airspace, then it means war, no doubt.

I don't think they're technologically advanced enough to make good use out of it, which is why I'm hoping they sell it to someone who is, like China.

Abut 4...Drones usually do have a self-descruct mechanism when it's attacked or detects any oncoming hostility.
Why this drone didn't explode upon this allegedly happening is beyond me. So it must have been an electronic attack that brought it down, or else it would be destroyed.

Yeah, even George Lucas knew that.

 

[Tempa!]

I don't think they're technologically advanced enough to make good use out of it, which is why I'm hoping they sell it to someone who is, like China.

Yeah, but China won't have any good intentions with a drone like that. If anyone, it would be used on the US.

 

[Mijzelffan]

Yeah, but China won't have any good intentions with a drone like that. If anyone, it would be used on the US.

If China wanted to destroy the US they would just stop buying their obligations and stop giving them loans. But China needs the US for export, so they won't do anything like that.

 

[Tempa!]

If China wanted to destroy the US they would just stop buying their obligations and stop giving them loans. But China needs the US for export, so they won't do anything like that.

Well that makes sense.
So basically the US can't live without China and China can't live without the US?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Well, if the US took action and precautions as if the drone was real (when it's actually a fake, assuming it is fake), would be doing just what Iran would want us to do (again, assuming it's fake), which is taking its bait and bowing to its terroristic (for lack of a better term) mind games.

If the drone is real, then hopefully nothing too serious will come of this.

Now, as for the legitimacy of Iran's claim:

A cyber attack would explain the drone not self-destructing, but wouldn't the military be aware of a drone not returning to base before Iran made the claim? Seems fishy to me.

I think the US should just play it safe for now, until we know a little bit more about the whole sheme of this. Assuming the government knows just as much as the public does at this point. And I also thought I'd chime in;

Spoiler

Members of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps were shown displaying a bat-winged aircraft on a platform bedecked with anti-American slogans and a mock American flag with skulls instead of stars.

*cough*Dickheads*cough*

 

[League]

@Jack Tschitt: The US is missing a drone, and Iran claims to have a drone. There is no reason to doubt that they have a drone (an especially advanced one at that) of ours in their possession. At any rate, I wouldn't call any "attack" to bring the drone down a cyber attack necessarily--such would imply the drone's programming was tampered with (such would have to be a previous action, or else foreign and malicious programming would have to be inserted while the drone was in flight), which seems rather impossible--if anything, Iran somehow managed to sabotage the drone's communication link to its controller (its tether), or else the drone's power. I chose to dub such a thing an "electronic" attack, because such seems like something that is feasibly possible with forces that could be so utilized and already rule the minds of science fiction and thriller writers. (An electromagnetic pulse is a devastating effect a nuclear explosion has, by the way. A nuclear weapon can potentially devastate another country while not killing many [if any] of its citizens.)

But again, it's charitable to assume that Iran is capable of that.

~

@Jack Tschitt & @Tempa!: It is sensible to assume/demand that the US not allow sensitive, advanced technology to fall into the hands of anyone, especially enemies and antagonists. Drones employed in sensitive areas should have some self-destruction protocol--or, at the least, sensitive elements should have such protocols. (Y'know, it'd be both amusing and ironic if the Iranians obtained a supposedly sensitive drone that in fact contained little sensitive design information--but that'd be charitable, to assume the US was so clever.) At any rate, a tamper-triggered self-destruction protocol does indeed make sense. It'd also be smart to increase any doubt about such elements.

~

@Tempa! & @Mijzelffan: China could live without the US, and the US could live without China. One shouldn't make out a country's way of life, politics, and economy to be embedded into the country. The US might not be so profligate if it didn't have such a lender as China (alternatively, it possibly could have such a lender even if China didn't exist), but it would appreciate not having a powerful and antagonistic rival in the region and world in general. China, meanwhile, would be a #2-ish (granted, #2 stinks) power in the world were there simply no United States. At any rate, scenarios in which things simply don't exist don't make much sense, and aren't the best things to waste your time thinking about. Scenarios in which things leave existence or change phase make more sense, as the way in which a thing happens (and not just a happened thing) also determines outcomes. There's also the vacuum phenomenon: nature abhors a vacuum. There'd be a power vacuum, for one, if either of the countries didn't exist, as well as such things as influential and geographic and security vacuums: who would possess China's access to the rare earth elements located there? what would Japan's security plan be if there were no US--would it then pursue or have pursued earlier its own nuclear weapons capabilities? would whatever country/countries that occupied the place of the US be open markets to China? etc. etc.

~

@TheKnittingno.: You hope China, who is developing a stealth aircraft of their own (in that case a fighter jet), gains access to the drone? Perhaps you're just a technology enthusiast (that would be charitable), but China getting a hand on such a thing would in all likelihood neutralize the capability of US drones against China and various of its allies (which many it could have, given its economic clout), if not other nations as well. We should also note that drones decrease the human risk and cost of war, which would mean that in conflict, the US, a beneficent power as far as nations go, would suffer many more losses in war, while China, a power not beneficent, an antagonizing and ambitious power (seeking to dominate and close off the region), would be empowered and possibly emboldened.

We should also note that it is vaunted American capabilities that deter war from nation-states.

 

[GengarEatBanana]

Guys try to stay on topic. Less talk of China and more on this drone in Iran and how it got there / if it's fake.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The US is missing a drone, and Iran claims to have a drone. There is no reason to doubt that they have a drone (an especially advanced one at that) of ours in their possession. At any rate, I wouldn't call any "attack" to bring the drone down a cyber attack necessarily--such would imply the drone's programming was tampered with (such would have to be a previous action, or else foreign and malicious programming would have to be inserted while the drone was in flight), which seems rather impossible--if anything, Iran somehow managed to sabotage the drone's communication link to its controller (its tether), or else the drone's power. I chose to dub such a thing an "electronic" attack, because such seems like something that is feasibly possible with forces that could be so utilized and already rule the minds of science fiction and thriller writers. (An electromagnetic pulse is a devastating effect a nuclear explosion has, by the way. A nuclear weapon can potentially devastate another country while not killing many [if any] of its citizens.)

But again, it's charitable to assume that Iran is capable of that.

Well, now that I know that the US reports one missing drone, there's next to no doubt in my mind that Iran has a drone.

It is sensible to assume/demand that the US not allow sensitive, advanced technology to fall into the hands of anyone, especially enemies and antagonists. Drones employed in sensitive areas should have some self-destruction protocol--or, at the least, sensitive elements should have such protocols. (Y'know, it'd be both amusing and ironic if the Iranians obtained a supposedly sensitive drone that in fact contained little sensitive design information--but that'd be charitable, to assume the US was so clever.) At any rate, a tamper-triggered self-destruction protocol does indeed make sense. It'd also be smart to increase any doubt about such elements.

I'm surprised the drone didn't self-destruct when Iran allegedly tampered with its communications. A cyber-attack (or hacking, or whatever you want to call it) would explain it not self-destructing. Or this drone doesn't have a self-destruct mechanism. But anyway, the main issue here isn't how they got the drone. Somehow, they got the drone, but the issue is what information they could get out of it. And I'm not really sure if the information in a reconnaisance drone would be terribly vital. But if they give it a self-destruct feature, it must be pretty sensitive information. Still, the only things I can think of at the moment that a drone could have information about could be maybe a map of the area, coordinates to the base where it came from, and pictures of Iranian operations it's recorded in action.

Like I said, the US should probably just play it safe for now, and take preparations as if they had the drone.

 

[Mijzelffan]

Appearently they do have the US drone.

 

[DerMißingno]

@TheKnittingno.: You hope China, who is developing a stealth aircraft of their own (in that case a fighter jet), gains access to the drone? Perhaps you're just a technology enthusiast (that would be charitable), but China getting a hand on such a thing would in all likelihood neutralize the capability of US drones against China and various of its allies (which many it could have, given its economic clout), if not other nations as well. We should also note that drones decrease the human risk and cost of war, which would mean that in conflict, the US, a beneficent power as far as nations go, would suffer many more losses in war, while China, a power not beneficent, an antagonizing and ambitious power (seeking to dominate and close off the region), would be empowered and possibly emboldened.

We should also note that it is vaunted American capabilities that deter war from nation-states.

I appreciate the explanation, and I assure you I'm well aware of China's cute little drone as well as the implications of them getting ours. When you have a hammer, all problems look like nails. I have an aerospace engineering degree, so all problems look like the lack of a space race. I would love for China to surpass the United States in any aerospace related field.