Warren Spector says games are "fetishising violence"

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joshawott

Joshawott

The Possibly Fake
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
11,825
Reaction score
197
Source

Epic Mickey creator Warren Spector has called for an end to videogames that 'are fetishising violence.'

Spector, who is currently working on Epic Mickey: The Power Of Two for Wii, accussed many violent games at E3 2012 of being in bad taste.

"This is the year where there were two things that stood out for me," Spector told Games Industry International "One was: The ultraviolence has to stop We have to stop loving it."

He added: "I just don't believe in the effects argument at all, but I do believe that we are fetishising violence, and now in some cases actually combining it with an adolescent approach to sexuality. I just think it's in bad taste. Ultimately I think it will cause us trouble.

"We've gone too far. The slow-motion blood spurts, the impalement by deadly assassins, the knives, shoulders, elbows to the throat."

Although Spector is now working on an adventure starring a cartoon mouse, he hasn't forgotten that his previous games have featured violence but he believed that these moments in Deux Ex were designed for a reason. Something Spector says is lacking in modern games.

"You know, Deus Ex had its moments of violence, but they were designed - whether they succeeded or not I can't say - but they were designed to make you uncomfortable, and I don't see that happening now. I think we're just appealing to an adolescent mindset and calling it mature."

Of course Wii U has embraced some violent videogames with ZombiU and Ninja Gaiden Razor's Edge coming to the console.
Click to expand...

What do you think? Do you agree with him, or disagree?

Personally, I agree. I'm no prude to violence - I absolutely love A Clockwork Orange, Fight Club and Elfen Lied. However, I do believe that any sort of ultra-violence needs to be justified by the tone of the work it is in, the story and the situation.

During E3, I remember how frankly, disgusted I was by ZombiU. I downloaded the press pack for a gaming website I report on and found the images really disturbing (no wonder Nintendo put very strict warnings on what sites can and can't post them) - seeing a guy cleave off a zombie's head, with the head still in mid-air and with blood gushing out...it made me want to be sick. Also, when I was watching the Assassin's Creed III trailer and I see soldiers just randomly having their chests hit with axes I was thinking "Surely there's a more time efficient, easier and cleaner way to dispose of them?".

Also, this quote is so true:
I think we're just appealing to an adolescent mindset and calling it mature.
Click to expand...
 
I found that article from My Nintendo News yesterday, and I agree with it whole heartly. I was planning on whether or not I should post it as my blog entry or a thread, but you beat me to it. Why can't modern games be more like Minecraft and Fez?
 
I can't really argue. There's violence in a wreckless way as I'd say something like the GTA games I played as a child had it (quick and seemingly not too detailed) and then there's dramatic shots, slow motion, unnecessarily brutal elements I just can't understand. Maybe things like that are the norm for most games now - I wouldn't know since I haven't delved into it much - and although I don't buy into the idea that games encourage violence (I think if someone is already prone to such actions anything could set them off anyway) I definitely feel they're making it too, well, glamorous, if that makes sense. Too satisfying and intricate and commonly so. Which, to me, poses more danger to how we see violence than mindless, crazy shooting sprees in those old GTA games. Those were ridiculous, but making violence and resulting deaths so impressive, fantastic and detailed is exactly what will desensitise people to even gruesome realities over time when once such deaths were rare and meaningful and designed to be distressing.

That said, I don't think it's fair to make an example of horror games. Again, just from my experience, oftentimes the characters themselves are disgusted/afraid of what they've had to do in desperation and adrenaline. That's what makes those games so horrifying. I don't know much about hugely violent games otherwise so excuse any assumptions but I certainly wouldn't say something like Assassin's Creed is justified in its portrayal of violence. In fact, going by what my friends say and show me, Assassin's Creed is more of a game made for angsty teens who want to feel badass. But there you go, that's just my opinion.
 
Last edited:
I get what he's talking about but he's kinda wording it the wrong way, the term violence generally refers to all kinds of acts but this guy is mainly focusing on the exaggerated gore/details that come in some games. Hence its just one peculiar theme that he has distaste with, the rest are as fine as they always have been.

While I agree with what he's trying to say, this issue sadly is not just with games. Its happening in other stuff too like comics and anime. All of these things started out for kids but as soon as they got the idea for having a mature audience they took the word for another meaning like having extra violence or extra cleavage. In japan's case they've literally formed whole categories for em. >.>

Every now and then the companies would take action in response to public requests but I doubt they'd be completely removing em. Most probably they'd just rate those stuff from M to R if they have to.

And the only reason why they won't stop is coz there ARE some crazy ppl who would love a daily dose of sadistic mayhem. Some are even on psychotic levels, ever wondered why you always find a certain someone wishing for a zombie apocalypse? Simple answer: its coz they'd love the thrill of being surrounded by bloody/gory/mindless/undead versions of ppl just so they could have the taste of going on a mad killing spree, even while ignoring the simple fact that they'd look like tiny needles in a bloody haystack with veeeery minuscule chances of survival if such a phenomenon ever occurs. (God forbid lol)

So they have games and such to fill that satisfaction, take it away from them and they'd either kill you with a sledgehammer or start hunting ducks at the nearest park. (whichever is more convenient)

Believe me, I've seen tons of crazy news on the net that were related to the after-effects of such things on cracked up lunatics. Some being underaged while some being creepy old peeps, its no joke! x__x

*cough*

But back to the main point here, I just really don't care one way or the other. I hardly find such games/shows worth looking anyway, I am a fan of fighting since early childhood but only as a fun filled sport and not to beat someone to a bloody pulp or to see their brains fall out of their heads. -.-

Fighting in general is every person's instinct, but ripping someone's body apart with a bloodthirsty drive is another story. Its all about the intent of violence from the way I see it. For example: I wish pokemon battles in the anime were more hardcore and less scene swapping, which is reasonable enough as long as they don't overdo it. (like who would ever bear to see blood in pokemon? ಠ_ಠ )

If this guy really manages to make something happen, good for the future youngsters but if it doesn't.....well then I guess those zombie fans will just keep on growing and I'll be safely hiding in my crib having no affiliation with them whatsoever.

Bleh...
 
Joshawott said:
During E3, I remember how frankly, disgusted I was by ZombiU. I downloaded the press pack for a gaming website I report on and found the images really disturbing (no wonder Nintendo put very strict warnings on what sites can and can't post them) - seeing a guy cleave off a zombie's head, with the head still in mid-air and with blood gushing out...it made me want to be sick. Also, when I was watching the Assassin's Creed III trailer and I see soldiers just randomly having their chests hit with axes I was thinking "Surely there's a more time efficient, easier and cleaner way to dispose of them?".

Also, this quote is so true:
I think we're just appealing to an adolescent mindset and calling it mature.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Okay, how is ZombiU disturbing to U (hehehe) when you like Elfen Lied. ZombiU justifies the chopping of the head parts, because it's the only way zombies can be killed in this game. They remain true to the idea that zombies can only be killed by shooting the head, chopping of the head, meaning the brain can't control the body anymore. No way that's gonna be bloody! *ugh*sarcasm*ugh*

About Assassin's Creed III... How is the killing of soldiers random? They try to kill you, while you try to achieve something, so you kill them. And I don't know, what time efficient way were you looking for? This is a game, not real life, so of course the characters pull things off you and I (possibly) can't.

And I entirely agree with your quote. Just because I was defending those two games doesn't mean I like over the top killing. ZombiU just seems fun to me, because you have to be really careful, and the innovative ways the Wii U gamepad are utilized interest me. Assassin's Creed on the other hand... I'm really intrigued by the idea behind it. Using a device that lets you review your ancestor's memories... Awesome! But the story itself is amazing. For the rest, I'm your average Mario/Zelda/Pokémon guy.
 
@Continent Turtle; It's because of the deeper messages in Elfen Lied. Like in regards to the show's nudity, I see it there as showing the innocence of the Nyu personality, whereas with Lucy, we almost always see her clothed. Then there's the whole issue of the diclonius being killed at birth simply for being who they are. Those kind of things really distract from it.

It's probably also because of the "uncanny valley" in that games like ZombiU and AC3 look so realistic that it's creepy without the violence anyway, but the violence and gore just escalates that discomfort.
 
@Gym Leader Janine, I can understand the gory thing with ZombiU, that's gonna be really bloody. But to me that has never been much of a problem with Assassin's Creed. You don't see kidneys, livers and that kind of things flying around when you stab a guard, it's just a little blood. That's why I don't really get why PEGI rated it 18+. It could easily have been 16+.
 
This guy wins the Jack Thompson award of E3 for hating Video Game violence on a EPIC scale:FIND ANOTHER JOB IF YOU HATE IT SO G*****N MUCH. AND FETISHES ARE SEXUAL, NOT ENDORSEMENTS. READ A DICTIONARY/FIND A THESAURUS/GET A LIFE.

You know what's really the evil thing here?

He made a sequel to EPIC MICKEY.
 
Muk-a-matic said:
This guy wins the Jack Thompson award of E3 for hating Video Game violence on a EPIC scale:FIND ANOTHER JOB IF YOU HATE IT SO G*****N MUCH. AND FETISHES ARE SEXUAL, NOT ENDORSEMENTS. READ A DICTIONARY/FIND A THESAURUS/GET A LIFE.

You know what's really the evil thing here?

He made a sequel to EPIC MICKEY.
Click to expand...

Warren Spector is a veteran developer in the video game industry, just like Miyamoto and Kojima. They know what's currently the problem with modern games as a whole, and they try their best create their games a masterpiece. Right now, the current problem is the dominant trend/demand for dark and gritty games thus neglecting innovations for unrealistic and cartoonish games (Ex: Pokemon). Besides, Spector tried his very best to bring Mickey back to his roots and great a decent license game, and it looks like you're one of those gamers who treat its camera system as the destructor.
 
Last edited:
I've been losing interest in video games a lot lately, and while I'm sure part of that has to do with growing up, a big part of it is that most games coming out these days are just tasteless.

Saying that violence is justified in a zombie game because you need to kill zombies is exactly what the problem is. There's a myriad of games all with that same premise out now, just to try and get a piece of the pie because people are willing to buy the games just because it involves zombies. These games really aren't bringing anything new or innovative to video games, just catering to what exactly is a fetish. While violence may technically be justified in a zombie game simply because that's how you kill a zombie, the game itself is hardly justified, and is really just a means to cater to peoples' interest in gore.
 
@Ghetsis-Dennis; Not really, I just question the misinformation his terminology his statement transmitted.


And the camera system isn't as bad as Disney's desperate attempts to hype Mickey Mouse, while they have a lot of better characters they own to rewrite and remake.


The only cool thing about Epic Mickey is the first appearance of The Phantom Blot in years in America. He's worse than Pete, who is stuffed down our throats every generation of Mickey, while a more marketable Noir character with plenty of modern rewrite appeal is trapped in a Video Game.

I want Mickey to make up for lots of crap over the years with a movie about him, Donald, the nephews, Goofy, Pluto, Scrooge, Max, Minnie and Daisy vs. The Phantom Blot.

PHANTOM BLOT FTW!

PS:I also want a DuckTales remake/Darkwing Duck remake with a backstory that parodies the Christian Bale Batman.

I miss Launchpad...and Glumgold...and Magica...and Fenton/Gizmoduck..and Webigail..and Ms. Beakly...the Beagle Boys/Ma Beagle/(More)Beagle Babes,...Doofus...Blubba...Gyro...I EVEN MISS F*****G DUCKWORTH!

That;s how bad I want a DuckTales remake. I wanna see DUCKWORTH so bad, he gets a F-Bombing.

As for Darkwing, Keep the villain set(with obvious 2010s sensitivity edits), more of/do not kill Splatter Phoenix, and make Taurus Bulba a Ras al' Gul-type figure.
 
How did I know someone was going to bring up Jack Thompson on here?

It's like Godwin's Law. The longer a thread on violent video games goes on, the chances of someone mentioning Thompson approaches one.

Anyway, I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I also don't think that the feelings of someone who is a game developer on this matter can be compared to those of someone like Jack Thompson. This guy is actually a part of the industry, and obviously his aim isn't to take the whole medium down (like often seems to be the case with people like Thompson). His concerns would have a bit more merit to me.

My main reaction is more to wonder why the finger is always being pointed at video games and so rarely at other media that are full of gratuitous violence, like movies. There are so many movies out there that are basically torture-porn (like the Saw series) and yet there seems to be so little concern over those compared to video games. There's so little concern even compared to movies with sexual content, which tend to be rated higher than those with violent content - even though that doesn't make a lot of sense to me since I feel like kids would be more scarred by violence than by sex, considering that little kids understand the former in a way they wouldn't quite understand the latter.
 
Dread Advocate said:
Eredar Warlock said:
He can think what he wants. I'm going to still play Dead Space and Gears of War.
Click to expand...

Fixed. Skyrim is nothing next to those two.
Click to expand...

Unfix. Skyrim is still plenty bloody and brutal. Beheadings are always graphic, and in the game, you are treated to two executions by beheading. Also, with the right melee weapon perk, you can sever heads, or knock heads off. Watching a closeup of a heavy blow with a two-handed warhammer connect on a neck joint and sending his/her head flying is pretty graphic, especially with a Daedric Warhammer or Volendrung. Also, impaling people, rather savage neck breakings complete with crunching sounds, the Dragon execution/finisher where an eye is gouged out, the violent finisher the Dragons themselves perform. As a matter of fact, most of the finishers are violent with the exception of one of the finishers performed on giants and most of the wolf finishers. Oh yes, and if you hang around Windhelm long enough, you'll eventually find a mutilated corpse of a woman in the graveyard. Skyrim is plenty brutal and bloody. It's just more medieval realistic bloody rather than the over-the-top ridiculous gore of the games you mention.
 
Just for the record, Postal 2 does not equal all video games.

That aside, I've seen kids write into magazines about this before, usually the reason games are like this because the target audience is younger adults and they don't want to be held back by ratings when developing games. If they have to worry about meeting ratings, stuff gets cut.

If anything, I have more of a problem with gaming being copies of each other with no real improvement. There are tons of ripoffs of every big name game, all made using UE3, with those big name game serieses also turning into rehashes that are the same shit as last years, but with barely any improvements graphicswise or gameplay wise. Casual gaming is even worse, with tons of Just Dances, Dance Centrals, Rock Bands/Guitar Heroes, motion minigame collections, and fitness games, while the mobile gaming space is dominated by gimmicks, more gimmicks, even more gimmicks, and get this, even more gimmicks that wear off after 2 minutes.

Yes, I know in the past there were tons of ripoffs, but with companies like EA and Activision just dumping trash, it seems like there's even more clones/rehashes then there were before.
 
I can agree with Warren Spector, the gaming industry has gone very low anymore. I mean, for one thing, it has been polluted with generic first person shooters and gorey hack and slash games, or anything that has a "Rated M for Mature" sticker on the box, it's pollution anymore. I mean, I first got into gaming from the original PlayStation, and even then, while there were first person shooters in their earliest forms on that platform, they weren't borderline air pollution like they are now, I grew up mainly with RPG's and platformers, such as Mario, Zelda, and of course, Pokemon, but today, the gaming industry has turned into something that's rather, to best describe it, "barbaric"

Now I'm not bashing on FPS games or anything with an M rating, I'm just saying that there is too many of them anymore.

Ghetsis-Dennis said:
Warren Spector is a veteran developer in the video game industry, just like Miyamoto and Kojima. They know what's currently the problem with modern games as a whole, and they try their best create their games a masterpiece. Right now, the current problem is the dominant trend/demand for dark and gritty games thus neglecting innovations for unrealistic and cartoonish games (Ex: Pokemon). Besides, Spector tried his very best to bring Mickey back to his roots and great a decent license game, and it looks like you're one of those gamers who treat its camera system as the destructor.
Click to expand...

I can agree with you there, Spector is doing his best to continue the spirit of unrealistic and fantasy games where imagination runs rampant and wild, as opposed to realistic ones, and while there is NOTHING wrong with realism, it's just that it's always the same kind of realism every time, dark and gritty, and it gets old and redundant quickly. Games like Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon have proven that games do NOT have to be realistic, and while more realistic situations have been added to aformentioned games, they continue to show that imagination always dominates a good story.
 
VictreebelGrande said:
This guy wins the Jack Thompson award of E3 for hating Video Game violence on a EPIC scale:FIND ANOTHER JOB IF YOU HATE IT SO G*****N MUCH. AND FETISHES ARE SEXUAL, NOT ENDORSEMENTS. READ A DICTIONARY/FIND A THESAURUS/GET A LIFE.

You know what's really the evil thing here?

He made a sequel to EPIC MICKEY.
Click to expand...
From Dictionary.com:
1. an object regarded with awe as being the embodiment or habitation of a potent spirit or as having magical potency.
2. any object, idea, etc., eliciting unquestioning reverence, respect, or devotion: to make a fetish of high grades.
3. Psychology . any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation.
Click to expand...
Nope, not always sexual.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom