wars in the pokemon world!

[uncutpokemon]

here's a thought, in the real world wars are fought with weapons of sorts, but is it the same in the pokemon world as well? or do you think that pokemon are used as weapons? or maybe a mix of the two? if it's the idea that people use pokemon to fight does that mean that Iraq (or what ever the pokemon world equivalent to it is) has Golems of mass destruction? and do suicide bombers use bombs or Voltorb/Electrodes that no explosion?

 

[Yamato-san]

judging from the Lucario movie, a mixture of both. Let's not forget that guns are present in the Pokemon world, at least from what we could tell of the early episodes of the anime. Though, weapons may or may not exist in other canon... on that note, canon seems to be a huge factor in determining the answer to this. In the case of the Special manga, as well as the games it so closely resembles, I get the feeling Pokemon are used in all manner of combat situations. Although, as I recall from at least Colloseum's intro scene (I forget other particular instances), bombs exist as well, so they don't always use self-destructing Pokemon.

However, whether weapons exist in a certain canon or not, they're certainly not developed to the extents that they are in our world. If nuclear warheads existed, why do you think organizations like Rocket Dan would go to such lengths to obtain Pokemon for power. Though given, in recent generations, it's been suggested that legendaries have the power to shape the planet, even the whole universe... but then, who wants to bet that the Pokemon require something to invoke such power? Game-wise, you're capable of using such Pokemon in battle around the same level as the likes of Mewtwo, Lugia, and Houou, which as powerful as they're portrayed to be, don't appear to be particularly planet-destroying forces (as Special seems to emphasize, this was probably the true purpose of the Crimson and Indigo Orbs).

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

If they didn't have humans fighting as well, Surge wouldn't be an officer.

Even Team Rocket (and I suppose the other Teams too) use non-trainer agents.

 

[Kriegsaffe No. 9]

While there'd be a mix of weapons used in wars, the influence of Pokemon would be enormous. At the least, think of the cost: a tank requires time to build, time to train soldiers how to pilot it, repairs, fuel, ammo, and of course staggering amounts of money to pay for all of that. In contrast, an Onix can be yours at the cost of a 200 poke-yen Pokeball and training time, it can feed itself, go places no tank can go, deal brutal damage to enemies, capture targets nonlethally, and heal with over-the-counter medicines. In short, an Onix (and, for that matter, a Steelix) is a pretty damn good deal compared to a tank. Plus, you can farm out the work to the private sector--breeders breeding power Pokemon, trainers raising creatures into mighty warriors, and so on an so forth.

For their cheapness and effectiveness, the Pokemon world must have a great deal more "K-9" units--hell, they might still have dragoons and mounted cavalry--as well as units that couldn't exist in the real world, like psi-ops units using extrasensory abilities to gather intel and blast foes, or poltergeist units wreaking havoc with the enemy. Of course, the humans would still field with guns, grenades, and the like, although they may be less-lethal superscience weapons.

In short, yeah. Pokemon would be omnipresent and very effective.

 

[betagold]

I think Kriegsaffe and Yamato are right. Plus, there's the abundance of pokemon to think of. Minerals are not rare, (7 iron balls in 5 mins in the underground), but pokemon are not rare either! Lucario would make excellent footsoldiers, with attacks to back it up, and people are just giving away eggs. Onix and Graveler, both very powerful tanks, can be found in minutes in almost any cave. And think of all the jobs this creates. The government gives pokemon to trainers (think starter pokemon), and then pokemon are captured and trained by trainers. The trainer gives these back to the lab (like ash and oak), and they can be taken out and used for battle. When they die, you just give them a quick run in the pokemon center, and its back to the battlefield for them. Imagine offsetting a large fortified wall with a few, well-placed earthquakes, or stopping a supply convoy short with psychic attack.

 

[anonymous920314]

I think one of the things that kind of bring people away from the "weapons in the pokémon world" theroy is the anime. I feel that while the anime has a lot of relevance, the way people treat pokémon is not one of them. Sure we have the extreme evil teams who will harm pokémon to achieve their goal, but then again, they still seem hesitant to really hurt pokémon.

In the games however, we have mentions of people slaughtering pokémon, chopping off their tails, etc. and it seems to me that the games treat pokémon as our world treats animals. While they are lovable compainions, the games also seem to act like people would kill pokémon in a combat war battle and while they might be sad about it, it wouldn't be this "OH MY GOD I KILLED A POKEMON" sort of thing like the anime I think would handle it.

I hope that made sense . .

 

[Surgo]

I remember Uiru's Fire Strike and Ace Sanchez's Pokemon MASTER as good indications of how wars would be fought, with the former being quite a bit too...tame...

In any case, there are definitely humans AND pokemon. Lieutenant Surge was an officer, and he says "electric pokemon saved him during the war". Could have been a well-placed Voltorb (But why wouldn't a grenade be as effective? If they have them that is), could have been something else entirely.

Modern weapons technology (and a good bit of modern technology in general) and Pokemon don't mesh well at all. If we were to assume modern weapons technology existed, there would never be Voltorb or Golem bombers -- grenades are far cheaper and as effective.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Could have been a well-placed Voltorb (But why wouldn't a grenade be as effective? If they have them that is),

Voltorbs can be reused, though. And if you go by the games, they're easier to disguise.

 

[Kriegsaffe No. 9]

Modern weapons technology (and a good bit of modern technology in general) and Pokemon don't mesh well at all. If we were to assume modern weapons technology existed, there would never be Voltorb or Golem bombers -- grenades are far cheaper and as effective.

Presumably Pokemon wouldn't be required for cheapie tasks, like handling a tightly-packed group of enemies. No, one dispatches detonating Pokemon on specialty missions where their other skills can be used before they detonate. For instance: one dispatches Weezing and Koffing in the air vents of an enemy's base, flooding it with poisonous gas until the gasbags are discovered--then they explode and wait for retrieval, revival, and rest and relaxation after their job well done.

There are three lynchpins for Pokemon in military combat: reliability, specialization, and the impossible. Lots of Pokemon abilities are reliable: you can count on a Thunder Wave paralyzing someone into uselessness, or on Spore knocking out targets without side-effects, or on Shock Wave nailing that Jeep. No mortal (Normal) weapon can harm a ghost, no electrical weaponry will work on Ground types, and all Dark Pokemon are immune to psionic intrusion and attack--attributes that are naturally quite desirable on the battlefield.

Specialization is powerful. A Vaporeon can use Acid Armor to become translucent in water, making it ideal for stealthful aquatic recon. Shuckle can produce curative items for troops while sucking up enormous damage. Guns, bombs, and missiles aren't that impressive when their target is routinely subjected to impossible damage. Signal hackers can flood enemy transmissions with Jigglypuff-song. Keep a Chancey rested, and it can ensure your troops and beasties can carry on healthy and vigorous far past the breaking point.

With the handheld Pokeball device, the impossible... is easy. Teleport to and fro for the ultimate in point insertion. Send Grimer sliding through cracks in doorways, dispatch Rotom and Porygon to infiltrate enemy electronics. Freeze enemies solid, predict enemy movements in dreams, and generally flip the laws of physics the bird.

This doesn't take into account what could happen if a legendary came into someone's grasp. Maybe Dialga is weakened when it's captured and tamed, but getting hit with shattered fragments of time can't possibly be fun.

 

[Surgo]

I can't help but think that with the existance of pokemon, weapons and other technology would have evolved differently. I don't think various modern weapons would exist at all, for either Pokemon shielding or Pokemon replacements, or if they do exist they would be in very different forms.

 

[Kriegsaffe No. 9]

That'd actually synch well with all the funky equipment that Team Rocket uses. Bullets don't fare well against rock, steel, or ghost, but a freeze bazooka would be fairly effective against many different types of Pokemon. Perhaps those freaky Team Rocket devices are alterations of existing war-machines, built not to resist rocket launchers and handguns but the elemental attacks of different Pokemon.

Guns are still in use to defend private property, of course--see the anime--but an actual war would look pretty different. Hmmm... meb'd I could draw a pic on the subject.

 

[buffer545]

lol they mustve used nuclear weapons on fiore
and to think about an armed charizard with a RPG(Rocket Launcher!)

yeah there are wars

 

[ImJessieTR]

If nuclear warheads existed, why do you think organizations like Rocket Dan would go to such lengths to obtain Pokemon for power.

Giovanni wants to be profitable. It's like J&J said in P2000 -- what's the point of being a thief if no one is left? Gio's not stupid. He wants to run the world. Mindlessly destroying it is not profitable. Although Mewtwo was able to "Akira" an entire area, he was also able to be more selective in his destruction -- or mindwipe his victims so he can get away with something scot-free. That's far more useful than just blowing up things.

 

[Yamato-san]

actually, I believe in the anime canon at least, it was Sakaki's mother who seeked profits. Sakaki himself seems to solely want power (hell, this is actually demonstrated within the series when he turns down an exceedingly rare Pokemon like Togepi because it didn't appear to possess any powers, even though a Pokemon he never saw nor heard of before would no doubt fetch him a pretty penny).

And you're saying nuclear bombs may've been developed? They just haven't been used against seemingly powerful Pokemon in the show? I find that a bit hard to believe, considering how many times the world was in danger, and it would've been possible to bring in a nuke which may or may not kill the Pokemon causing destruction. If you think "they worry about civilians/they care too much about Pokemon to kill them", then what about that giant Dokukurage? The city was pretty much evacuated, and no one seemed to give two shits about the Menokurage that they thought were terrorizing their home. Hell, they could've even had Obaba briefly touch on the subject, but as far as I recall, she didn't.

Perhaps nuclear warfare is just too touchy of a subject, especially for a country that directly suffered from its conception half a century ago, but still, given what I've said earlier, I seriously question the worth of Pokemon in warfare, especially to power-hungry crime mobs, in a world where such a thing was developed. Nonetheless, it would be pretty interesting to see how legendary Pokemon might be able to fare against such powerful weaponry (I can see Mewtwo redoing the Eva scene from the first episode, in which the 3rd Angel steps on an N^2 mine).

Giovanni wants to be profitable. It's like J&J said in P2000 -- what's the point of being a thief if no one is left? Gio's not stupid. He wants to run the world. Mindlessly destroying it is not profitable. Although Mewtwo was able to "Akira" an entire area, he was also able to be more selective in his destruction -- or mindwipe his victims so he can get away with something scot-free. That's far more useful than just blowing up things.

However, you seem to be forgetting the true purpose of such powers: fear. Just like nuclear warheads in real life, the fear of decimation, rather than the decimation itself, could be used to force others to give in to certain demands. Should those demands not be met, then a small portion of the world goes to prove the warhead-possessor isn't fucking around. Obviously, just a portion of the world isn't the whole world, so there'd still be plenty left to conquer. Sakaki is clearly not one of those insane "I'm gonna blow up the world" villains, and is actually pretty tactful from what we've seen (in all mediums of the franchise). Should he be in possession of any great power, he'd no doubt try to gradually, yet surely, conquer the planet (in fact, he was probably gonna do just that with Mewtwo once he managed to settle the unstable guinea pig into a role as his loyal servant).

 

[eX.A.K.R.]

Personally, I believe the military do not exist in the modern Pokémon World (although, historically, it did exist, judging by the existence of people like Lt. Surge - I will come to that later); even if it does exist, it might be a kind of a reserve force or an extension of the police force and coast guard (think: Panama and Costa Rica). As such, I don't think there is anything we would regard as warfare in the Pokémon World - guns, cannons, and such, maybe, but definitely no missiles or bomber planes, and definitely nothing nuclear, biological, or chemical.

Yet, an interesting point to note is that many Pokémon can effectively be used as potential weapons of mass destruction, or as unconventional weapons - and worse. A Butterfree spreading Stun Spore? A troop of Electrode using Explosion at the same time? An Onix using Earthquake to bring down a city?

I think that there might be some kind of agreement, somewhat similar to real-world arms-related treaties (such as the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty), that limits or prohibits the way Pokémon may be used in the event any kind of conflict breaks out. Most likely, they might be used to aid in arm-to-arm combat or slowing down or stopping the enemy without the use of potentially lethal force (such as using Sing to put an invading force to sleep :lol: , or using Psychic to manipulate and disable their progress). Doing anything that might mimic the effects of weapons of mass destruction or unconventional weapons using Pokémon is prohibited. Only in peacetime are Pokémon allowed to be used to their full potential - which explains why there is sometimes so much destruction and damage when we see Pokémon using their attacks in the anime.

Historically though, as the canon has showed, full-scale wars do break out, and this shows that full-scale militaries did exist. Up to when before they ceased to operate, we do not know, and we can only speculate how normal warfare was used in conjunction with Pokémon, taking into account the technology of the past in different eras.

Much of what normal warfare can do can be duplicated by Pokémon, but using Pokémon as weapons is almost akin to using a human (or an animal; I use the human analogy as it has been shown that Pokémon are almost as intelligent as humans) as a piece of warfare equipment. Most likely, I believe that normal warfare is almost always used first; Pokémon may be used in the event of manpower shortfall or as a kind of a "Plan B". Such an action, however, would most likely been frowned upon, just as we frown upon the use of nuclear, chemical, or biological warfare today in the real world.

 

[Yamato-san]

Personally, I believe the military do not exist in the modern Pokémon World (although, historically, it did exist, judging by the existence of people like Lt. Surge - I will come to that later); even if it does exist, it might be a kind of a reserve force or an extension of the police force and coast guard (think: Panama and Costa Rica). As such, I don't think there is anything we would regard as warfare in the Pokémon World - guns, cannons, and such, maybe, but definitely no missiles or bomber planes, and definitely nothing nuclear, biological, or chemical.

it's worth noting that what we've seen of the Pokemon world is mainly based on regions of Japan, and they don't have a standing military. Though, I could see something of a war between the Pokemon crime organizations/eco-terrorists and the police (which I believe are privately-owned in Japan). I've actually considered such material in a doujinshi I'm planning out.