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Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent changed?

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GameCubeController

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I came up with something that is definitely worth talking about. Sorry if this post is a little wordy.

As you fans may know, in the 9th episode, "A school of hard knocks", Ash visibly crushes on Giselle (he actually blushes and stuff). But after this, for the entire show, Ash seems oblivious to romance. I mean, there's many hints that shippers have correctly interpreted as Ash showing affection, but nothing as obvious as in EP9.

So why did the writers remove his openly-interested-in-girls side? Maybe they thought ash would be too much of a stereotypical protagonist unless they changed something. It's clear to me that he was at first intended to be more interested in girls, because otherwise the writers probably wouldn't have done that thing in EP9.

There's other ways that the show seemed to be heading in a different direction at the beginning (like team rocket being cooler, and time realistically going by.)

note: I put this thread here instead of in Shipper's Paradise because it's mainly about unarguable affection (as opposed to interpreted affection. Shipping is about interpretation.)
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

I don't mean to bring Pokeshipping specifically into this. This quote is just to make a point about Satoshi and romance as a whole.

Takeshi Shudo said:
Kasumi doesn't have anything like love interest for Satoshi. If Kasumi's feeling of love towards Satoshi would become Pokemon's subject, it would break the whole structure of Pokemon."


He also made it clear that for Satoshi, being a child, his relation with Pikachu is stronger so that even if Kasumi felt something towards Satoshi, she couldn't intrude between them.


Even if in Pokemon happened something like Kasumi falling in love with Satoshi, it would be like with addding spices to the cooking, too much spices would make only the flavour too complicated and it would be just intrusion.
Click to expand...

So basically, added romance would make Pokemon something it isn't supposed to be, and would just muddle the plot too much.

Shudo wrote episode 9 of Pokemon, by the way.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

I think Ash's apparent feelings toward Gisselle were just a result of it being such an early episode, and the writers weren't yet entirely sure how to play things. With just about any long-running TV series, if you look at the earliest episodes you can usually identify certain elements and character quirks which were subsequently dropped as the show developed. Often it takes a bit of time and experimentation for writers to settle upon a formula that works for them.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

GameCubeController said:
So why did the writers remove his openly-interested-in-girls side? Maybe they thought ash would be too much of a stereotypical protagonist unless they changed something. It's clear to me that he was at first intended to be more interested in girls, because otherwise the writers probably wouldn't have done that thing in EP9.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't a stereotypical protagonist not be interested in girls?
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

It's true that early on, Ash did show at least some interest in girls. There was the aforementioned Giselle, the love-hate thing with Misty, and he seemed at least a bit taken with Melody in Pokemon 2000, but as Ash continued his journey, he gave himself more and more to his Pokemon training, and romance factored in less and less for him.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

The romantic scenes were very obvious throughout Kanto and Orange Islands. Starting from Johto the writers stopped doing it.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

Having romance between humans in a series dedicated to magic creatures that battle each other really doesn't fit. Thus, any "romance" is really only going to be played for laughs or always end in failure.

Honestly, I'm kinda sick of people bringing up the School of Hard Knocks as evidence that Ash is interested in girls or even that numbered levels exist. I find it rather stupid that people apparently never heard of the fact that characterization changes over time.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

I will have to agree that it was just something that was dropped. No need to make a big production out of it.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

2NE1 said:
The romantic scenes were very obvious throughout Kanto and Orange Islands. Starting from Johto the writers stopped doing it.
Click to expand...

Or rather, they dropped it for Ash. They shipping subplots moved into the Contest episodes afterward.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

I hardly could count one scene from 9th episode and "School of Hard Knox "as something to go by,especially when Ash never showed such obvious romantic affection when girls were in question afterwards.Granted he showed some signs of jealousy when Misty flirted with other guys or when he was ignored as well acting little unusual with Melody around in second movie but as time went on his interest in girls continued to diminish until it stopped entirely with some romantic plot involving Ash never being on list of writer intentions.

This was officially confirmed by ex head writer who did construction for original series Takeshi Shudo explaining how there was never any romance present when it comes to Ash character and how any possible relationship with girls was never planned.
However some of his statements are contradictory if i may say considering how some actions in specific episodes speak for themselves.Imo writers on purpose added some romantic scenes involving Ash back in original series being part of testing out new things with purpose of adding humor or contributing toward resolution of plots in some episodes.

Mr,Shudo was obviously against any kind of romance,though that didnt stopped other members of writing staff from adding some hints here and there spicing things up a bit after he left in original,AG and DP series but Ash pretty much stopped being main subject in whole thing.

2NE1 said:
The romantic scenes were very obvious throughout Kanto and Orange Islands. Starting from Johto the writers stopped doing it.
Click to expand...

Not entirely,i still remember Misty showing some romantic affection toward Ash being jealous when girls complimented his skills like Macy or nurse Joey for example(referring to episodes like "Light Fantastic" or "Love pokemon style")along with seeming possessive or rather i say unusually worried in some Johto episodes.

There were also some romantic scenes involving Brock when interacting with girls like Temaku or dr.Anna.
Though aside from those few scenes Ash wasnt much involved in romance afterwards with most of romantic hints coming from Drew and May side in AG.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

Musashi said:
I don't mean to bring Pokeshipping specifically into this. This quote is just to make a point about Satoshi and romance as a whole.



So basically, added romance would make Pokemon something it isn't supposed to be, and would just muddle the plot too much.

Shudo wrote episode 9 of Pokemon, by the way.
Click to expand...

THIS.

Unlike what many fangirls like to believe, Pokemon isn't about romance, nor anything really close to it. It's about the adventures and interactions with the creatures of that world. It's called POKEMON. So the Pokemon should always be the main focus, specially in a show that won't take itself seriously.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

Alright, I'll give the animé explanation, and the real-world explanation. First things first:

Once upon a time there was a pink creature of emotion named Mespirit. Like you or I, Mespirit preferred tropical paradises to snowy wastelands islands like Sinnoh. Thus, he/she/it decided to go to Hoenn. Along the way, Mespirit stopped in Kanto at the Legendaries' Migration Bar, a well-renowned Pokémon bar run by Arbok and Seviper, before continuing on his/her/its journey. Just as it was approaching a river to lead it to the sea and thus Hoenn, an annoying little boy with an electric mouse on his shoulder and his two friends beside him decided to take a swim in the river. In the process, the little boy and the girl he was traveling with got in a splash fight, and they both accidentally hit Mespirit. Now, for some reason the three lake pixies, despite living in water, believe that their complexions are ruined if they are splashed. Thus, Mespirit unleashed his/her/its psychic energies in a rage, and denied the boy from feeling love while also cursing the girl into falling in love with the boy who could now not feel love. Then Mespirit continued to Hoenn and was almost eaten by a Mightyena, but that's another story.

In all seriousness though, besides Mr. Shudo being a fan of bestiality or something, I'm pretty sure originally the show was supposed to end after the Kanto arc so they set up Ash/Misty so that they could end off the Pokémon Animé with a suitable epilogue. Then the show got popular, and...
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

Sith Droideka said:
In all seriousness though, besides Mr. Shudo being a fan of bestiality or something, I'm pretty sure originally the show was supposed to end after the Kanto arc so they set up Ash/Misty so that they could end off the Pokémon Animé with a suitable epilogue. Then the show got popular, and...
Click to expand...

And the Pokemon world expaned, making way for a more complex universe with an infinite amount of creatures. Endless possibilities to explore between the relationships of humans and Pokemon.

If they would've ended the show on that note, I wouldn't doubt they'd end up together. But I'm sure as hell glad that didn't happen.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

Just as a warning guys, not that a lot of you are off-topic, but please take the Shipping debates to the shipping forum. As the OP says, this thread is about unarguable affection from Satoshi's side.

That being said, I think Satoshi was supposed to be an idiot/chaste hero from DAY ONE. Kanto included a lot of "testing the waters" episodes. I don't think it was ever intended for Satoshi to have a love interest or to show actual interest in women because it would break the base. This show is more about the relationship between himself and his Pokemon, and how that relationship extends to other people.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

Thanks for all your input! I hadn't thought of like more than half of what you guys said. The ep9 thing almost seems like it was a mistake, like something that wasn't supposed to happen. Or like you guys said, it could have been included because the writers were not finished developing the characters. If obvious romance with Ash would truely mess up a show like pokemon, then I guess the writers continued to do that stuff mostly with hints.


Sith Droideka said:
Once upon a time there was a pink creature of emotion named Mespirit. Like you or I, Mespirit preferred tropical paradises to snowy wastelands islands like Sinnoh. Thus, he/she/it decided to go to Hoenn. Along the way, Mespirit stopped in Kanto at the Legendaries' Migration Bar, a well-renowned Pokémon bar run by Arbok and Seviper, before continuing on his/her/its journey. Just as it was approaching a river to lead it to the sea and thus Hoenn, an annoying little boy with an electric mouse on his shoulder and his two friends beside him decided to take a swim in the river. In the process, the little boy and the girl he was traveling with got in a splash fight, and they both accidentally hit Mespirit. Now, for some reason the three lake pixies, despite living in water, believe that their complexions are ruined if they are splashed. Thus, Mespirit unleashed his/her/its psychic energies in a rage, and denied the boy from feeling love while also cursing the girl into falling in love with the boy who could now not feel love. Then Mespirit continued to Hoenn and was almost eaten by a Mightyena, but that's another story.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much. I like creative posts like this a lot.


Eitarou said:
Wouldn't a stereotypical protagonist not be interested in girls?
Click to expand...
I guess we've probably watched different shows, so we have a different idea of what the average protagonist is.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

I figured that since the show went on longer than expected, they decided to drop anything involving romance or attraction with his character because it would clutter up the plot and his main goals. I actually kinda wish they wouldn't have made him entirely oblivious to the opposite sex, though, or romance when it comes to other characters (I don't mean for himself, btw). Would make for some funny scenes, I feel. Anywho, maybe if the show would've ended when originally intended, they would've allowed him to display that side more often (attraction) as it wouldn't have cluttered up the storyline or anything since the show would've been ending anyway.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

I didn't really see anything wrong with Ash oogling over Giselle's beauty (although even in that very episode, he got over it). It's not like him doing stuff like that some of the time (not to the extent of Brock) would automatically mean there's a lot of romance in the show. For years, I was amused by the idea of Ash falling for some girl and how that would mess up his Pokemon training, and how he would have to get over it.

Not like Pokemon has to turn into a soap opera or something, and it kinda irks me that it's implied if Ash isn't completely oblivious to love/crushes/etc., the show is ruined.

But yeah, the Ash interested in girls thing was just something for when they still weren't sure how to characterize Ash completely.
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

Originally he was a Naruto-like hero, but then they make him a Goku-like hero. That's it.

Takeshi Shudo said:
Kasumi doesn't have anything like love interest for Satoshi. If Kasumi's feeling of love towards Satoshi would become Pokemon's subject, it would break the whole structure of Pokemon. He also made it clear that for Satoshi, being a child, his relation with Pikachu is stronger so that even if Kasumi felt something towards Satoshi, she couldn't intrude between them. Even if in Pokemon happened something like Kasumi falling in love with Satoshi, it would be like with addding spices to the cooking, too much spices would make only the flavour too complicated and it would be just intrusion.
Click to expand...

I always found it interesting, how Shudo is contradicting with his own show. I guess Pokeshipping was Omae-sama's idea...
 
Re: Was Ash originally intended to be interested in girls? Why was this intent change

Maybe Gisselle is just that hot?
 
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Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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