Was Contestshipping planned right from the start?

[Cybersai]

I've been going on a Contest-watching marathon lately, and I'm just curious, was Contestshipping planned right from the getgo? Obviously I'm talking strickly about early/mid Hoenn, before the blatant Contestshippy stuff came in late Hoenn and Battle Frontier.

I just watched "Now that's Flower Power!" for the first time in over a year, and I was actually shocked with how different Drew's character was back here. I didn't realize he was THAT different in the beginning of AG. I dunno, I guess I was too used to "nice/respectful" Drew from Battle Frontier, that going back to his first episode and seeing him act like such a jerk/asshole was staggering.

The first thing he does in the episode is make fun of May's style and saying Beautifly's frisbee appeal was a cheesy act. He says, "Calm down, little girl," to May, (lol), and continues to brag about how great he is, shoves his hand in May's face as she gets angrier and angrier, tells everyone, "You children should go home." (to Brock even, whose older than he is), and acts like an ass toward them all.

Ash's remark, "Let's get out of here" shows that they didn't like him at first, and when May asks him if he'll be at the Contest, he says, "Brillaint guess, genius."

He was basically flat out insulting/picking on May for no reason.

My question is after this episode, was Contestshipping really planned from the getgo? Did the writers have Drew act all professional and belittle May on purpose and act like an overall asshole so we could see how he changes his attitude toward her over the course of AG?

I also noticed that instead of Drew being more reserved and confident in late AG, he's more arrogant and snobbish in his first episode. Is it just me, or in the later episodes does Drew tend to not talk as much as he does at the beginning? He really only says a few lines and then walks off, whereas back here at the beginning he was bragging his head off as much he could.

Aside from this, could a Hikari/Shinji parallel be drawn, despite the fact that they're not actual rivals? The way Hikari gets angry at Shinji for not remembering her is somewhat similar to the way May and Drew first interacted, except for the other components.

 

[Jo-Jo]

It's actually very common for two characters who are going to fall in love to have a really bad first meeting and start out the relationship with a negative first impression of each other.

If you read the opening chapters of Pride and Prejudice, for example, Darcy's stuck-up behaviour initially causes the entire village to despise him, and he insults Elizabeth in particular by refusing to dance with her and telling his friend in her hearing, "she is handsome, certainly, but not nearly enough to tempt me."

Drew gives May the first rose two episodes after Now That's Flower Power, so I think Contestshipping must have been in the plan right from the offset. Plus, even in his debut episode, he gets to show his nicer side at the end.

Did the writers have Drew act all professional and belittle May on purpose and act like an overall asshole so we could see how he changes his attitude toward her over the course of AG?

I'd say that was a complete certainty.

It always used to surprise me when people pointed to Drew's early attitude and claimed it as a counter to Contestshipping. Even if you ignore the romance plot, it should have been apparent from looking at the previous rivalry that Drew was going to nicen up. Most people already assume the same will happen to Shinji, too.

Is it just me, or in the later episodes does Drew tend to not talk as much as he does at the beginning? He really only says a few lines and then walks off, whereas back here at the beginning he was bragging his head off as much he could.

Sure, that's character development.

Though it's certainly possible that the writers made a few small tweaks to Drew's personality as they went along. It's quite normal for characters to evolve in unexpected ways.

 

[Cybersai]

It always used to surprise me when people pointed to Drew's early attitude and claimed it as a counter Contestshipping. Even if you ignore the romance plot, it should have been apparent from looking at the previous rivalry that Drew was going to nicen up. Most people already assume the same will happen to Shinji, too.

Yeah, but even though we all probably guessed Drew would become nicer as the series went on, it didn't mean it was automatically going to lead to romance. Gary became nice and Shinji probably will too, but of course they're not having the hots for Ash. Drew went down the romance path later on but I don't think everyone knew for certain it was going to happen.

Today I rewatched, "Win Lose or Drew," and his overall dialouge with May is rather snobbish. May also seems rather agitated by him than anything else, such as her dialouge, "I can't lose to him!" before they went on stage.

Its also noticeable that they didn't really make a big deal out of the rose at all in this ep. After Drew says its for Beautifly, May reacts harshly and we don't see it again in any of the following scenes. Do you think the rose meant romance right from the start, or not until the Grace Contest roses were given?

What I'm really trying to ask is, do you think that Drew liked May right from their very first encounter in this first Contest, or didn't start to get really interested in her until the Grace Contest onward?

We can tell which point its at that May discovers she has feelings for him, (Hoenn GF time), but Drew is a bit less noticeable. The Phantom Contest shows him watching her Contest as well, but he still has his arrogant attitude and doesn't spend much time talking with May. Was it the Grace Contest, or was that the turning point? The Rubello town Contest is a bit less obvious as well for what Drew's intentions really were.

Eh, it really is surprising how much Drew's personality was evolved over the course of AG. I mean, if you watch "Now that's Flower Power!" and "The Unbeatable Lightness of Seeing!" right after each other, there's like a whole world of difference. Its amazing to see how different they act around each other in their first and final episodes together, and the good thing is PUSA's voices for May and Drew also tended to be really good, so nothing was ruined in the voice transition switch for them either. In the end, its probably one of the best arcs the writers ever did because you can see the real changes over time.

Is this not good character development? And if so, why did you say once before that you didn't think May had good character development over the course of AG?

 

[Jo-Jo]

Yeah, but even though we all probably guessed Drew would become nicer as the series went on, it didn't mean it was automatically going to lead to romance.

I didn't say Drew's snottiness was a hint, I said it was weird that people tried to use it as evidence that he and May wouldn't end up in a romance. It's peculiar enough that so many fandomers are apparently oblivious to the staggeringly common bickering-lovers plotline, but in the case of May and Drew, they were making a fuss over behaviour that was guaranteed to change anyway.

Its also noticeable that they didn't really make a big deal out of the rose at all in this ep. After Drew says its for Beautifly, May reacts harshly and we don't see it again in any of the following scenes.

So? We don't see any of the roses for longer than one scene, with the exception of the Modama/Yuzuhira one. And of course May acted harshly, Drew was being a git. Do you honestly think that the writers had Drew give May a rose in Win, Lose or Drew just for the hell of it, with no romantic significance attached, and then, a mere fifteen episodes later, it suddenly occurred to them that they could use the roses as romantic foreshadowing? I don't think so.

As far as I can make out, you're throwing doubt on whether Contestshipping was always a part of the writers' plan simply because the ship had slow development. CS is a pairing that was built up very gradually from nothing. That's one of my favourite things about it. It was great watching May and Drew's verbal sparring lead into a growing affection, and it was great seeing May's irritable attitude towards the roses softening over time. I can quote you loads of books and movies where the eventual pair have a ton of spirited arguments in the early stages of their relationship. (Including a ship from House, M.D., which after the episode I just watched, IS SO CANON. ^___^) May and Drew's exchanges in Hoenn are the norm for a bickering romance. In fact, the Pokemon writers started in on the blatant romance rather earlier than a lot of other love/hate ships I know of.

What I'm really trying to ask is, do you think that Drew liked May right from their very first encounter in this first Contest, or didn't start to get really interested in her until the Grace Contest onward?

Personally, I think he was attracted to her since Now That's Flower Power, but didn't begin to feel really seriously about her until around the Verdanturf contest.

 

[xRubyx]

Hmmm, it does seem kinda planned, we saw early sighns of Contestshipping really early in the series. With that whole rose thing, but also he could of just been nice. Later in the series though many hints started coming out, and the rose went from being friendly, to love i think. May and Drew will make a great couple, and i think it's safe to say he's May's love interest.

 

[Cybersai]

If they did indeed plan on the first rose gradually leading to well...everything after it, then do you think the plan from the getgo was always to write May and Drew out together?

One thing I really liked about May going to Johto with Drew, (and Harley!), is it gives her a happy ending. If all the writers did was have May run off to some other region without any purpose, or have her just return to Petalburg or something stupid like that, I would have been annoyed.

I very much like the fact that from their last episode at least, May/Drew/Harley are going to continue being rivals for the forseeable future. It makes her ending much more satisfying then the way other characters were written out, and you can feel closure that meant something in the end. Looking back on BF, you can actually see episodes that were leading to this point, especially with Drew, Harley and Solidad becoming more important people to May than Ash and Brock, so I'm glad it was handled well.

So, do you think Contestshipping was planned from the beginning because the writers wanted May to have a happy ending? I assume they wanted May to have a love interest, and later on Harley, to be with her since she isn't traveling with her darling little brother or her two friends anymore.

Heh, I think May being independent of everyone was a nice touch, I'm much happier that Max went back to Hoenn rather than going with his sister because it fits the road May's character is going to take much better. It just makes me curious if this was all planned since AG1 even.

 

[Jo-Jo]

I doubt the Drew/Solidad backstory was always part of the plan...

I don't even know if anyone was thinking as far ahead as the end of May's time on the show when they wrote AG1.

 

[Cybersai]

The reason I said AG1 was because I assume Drew's character was decided upon near the start of the series, what he was going to look like and so forth, they just didn't introduce him until 35 episodes into Hoenn.

If they already decided upon Drew's personality and how he and May would interact near the start of AG, then I wonder about if the romance subplot was always planned, in addition to their departures.

As for Solidad, I think its pretty obvious she was a last-minute addition when we were getting toward the Grand Festival. I think she would have been introduced earlier in BF, (or maybe even in Hoenn instead of Robert), if they had thought of her earlier. Solidad was probably more of a, "Oh shit, we have to write the characters out at the end of AG, let's make up a quick backstory between her and Drew so she could be another turning point to concluding May's story arc!"

 

[Jo-Jo]

If they already decided upon Drew's personality and how he and May would interact near the start of AG, then I wonder about if the romance subplot was always planned, in addition to their departures.

I'd say: romance subplot yes, departures maybe, maybe not.

 

[Cybersai]

Since I'm not sure if the decision to write May out was decided upon early on, (due to her Eevee and Munchlax), do you think Drew's lack of appearances in BF contributes to this?

It seems kind of strange that Drew never got an episode between the Arcanine ep and the Brianna episode, they didn't focus on Drew at all for the entire first half of BF. Since I know you used to argue that Drew was sidelined for Harley because you thought Drew was going to be kept for D/P, do you think that this their original intention as well?

 

[Jo-Jo]

Haven't a clue. Maybe Drew just didn't show up for a while because there was no plot necessity to include him and no spare time to insert him into a filler ep. He ended up being in 8 eps in the BF anyway, which is twice as many as he used to get in one season of Hoenn, so it's not like he really required an extra appearance between the Arcanine and Wakana eps.

But, uh, I'm not sure how this relates to Contestshipping either way...

 

[xRubyx]

Let's just hope that we see more of them in the future. Since May just might pop up in the D/P series, she might say something good about Drew. Like saying he's really changed, and that she really likes him now. Then Hikari might make a comment about him or something and May would blush *hint hint*

 

[FabuVinny]

Another scenario: May walks in on Hikari and Nozomi being fangirls over Drew.

That'd create some conflict for an episode.

 

[xRubyx]

Yea! and then they fight! A bloody fight! but then Hikari rips off May's shirt or something. Then Hikari just stares...then May screams out "LESBIAN!" X) thats when we'll know the truth about Hikari. x.x

 

[Lil Brother]

Yea! and then they fight! A bloody fight! but then Hikari rips off May's shirt or something. Then Hikari just stares...then May screams out "LESBIAN!" X) thats when we'll know the truth about Hikari. x.x

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!

We need a cat fight in this series! I can't remember a hateful girl vs. girl relationship since the days of Misty and Jessie. Screw the idea of Hikari fangirling over May, have her try to knock May's lights out!

8D

Oh, yeah, something on-topic.

Erm... while I doubt they knew what they were going to do with May when the fourth generation came around, it seems obvious that ContestShipping was planned from the beginning. Good thing they actually went with something instead of leaving it forever unconcluded. They still never kissed, though.

 

[Habunake]

This Kengo scenario of Hikari's is starting to sound like this, especially the battling Ash part...

 

[Rocketshipper]

Battling Ash? O_O

 

[Cybersai]

Yeah, he declines a battle with Hikari so he can battle Ash instead.

Jesus, it sounds like a rehash of the Drew/Ash battle from early Hoenn.

Kengo better not become a love interest, the writers have done enough rehashes already.

 

[Jo-Jo]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!

We need a cat fight in this series! I can't remember a hateful girl vs. girl relationship since the days of Misty and Jessie. Screw the idea of Hikari fangirling over May, have her try to knock May's lights out!

XD I wouldn't mind a May/Drew/Hikari triangle, that's for sure.

Can May/Harley and Jessie/Harley count as the AG catfights? If even Harley's just too male for that to work, there's always May/Erika... and I guess to a tiny extent, May/Brianna.

Erm... while I doubt they knew what they were going to do with May when the fourth generation came around, it seems obvious that ContestShipping was planned from the beginning. Good thing they actually went with something instead of leaving it forever unconcluded. They still never kissed, though.

Agreed... especially on the no kiss. Is it that TPTB view a kiss as being too 'adult' for Pokemon, or is it just that May and Drew are too young, do you reckon? Of course, there's so much cultural stuff attached to kissing in Japan - perhaps we'd have to do a ton of research before even beginning to speculate.

 

[Cybersai]

I never believed we'd ever see a kiss on this show, however brief. Norman and Caroline only hugged on their anniversary, they didn't kiss either.

We have seen kisses on the cheek a few times in the show though, so that could be something we'd end up seeing. Probably not with May and Drew though, since they've been removed from the series.