"We all know that Ash cannot use tanks that are not called Snorlax" disscuss

[L-05308]

I think this statement is silly. The only other tank he has is Torterra. And he has been shown to be able to use Boldore well. It all depends how it is written, Boldore would win the whole league if it was written that way

 

[Sweenix]

ash couldn't even handle torterra, he tried to make torterra a fast pokemon where he should have played to it's strength

he should have had
Protect
Leaf storm
Stone Edge
Toxic Spikes

 

[Bikini Miltank]

Ash is exactly as talented or useless as the story requires him to be. We've seen him using complex strategies and we've seen him forgetting how to catch a Pokemon. Trying to read patterns into the skills he displays is futile because the writers just haven't given it that much thought.

 

[Iteru]

I think to an extent "tank" and "defensive" Pokémon could really be interchanged here. Personally I'd say that Ash is shown using fast, hard-hitters with greater skill than tanks/walls because its a style that would be more fun for children to watch and so defensive Pokémon aren't really shown with him and don't last particularly long so as to not bore children for too long.

The only other tank he has is Torterra. And he has been shown to be able to use Boldore well.

I think you've forgotten about Torkoal, who you could classify as a tank (take a hit using Iron Defense, hit back hard with Overheat). I personally don't think Boldore is something that can really be discussed at this time because we've only really seen it used two or three times, and as a Roggenrola we could see that its offensive precense against Excadrill was pretty much zero, and only really took attacks until it evolved. Given that evolution often leads a Pokémon to win as a moment of glory, I'd say that case isn't a good one in regards to Ash using tanks well.

Personally I think its really hard to deny how much of a mess Torterra was in its last form. While the need for a more defensive strategy was made apparant, I felt that the writers really didn't want to go anywhere with it. Rock Climb was particularly offensive, Synthesis wasn't really shown often (against Drapion was a good example of how ineffective they showed the move when used) and a move like Energy Ball was fairly useless next to Leaf Storm when the slot could have been taken with something like Withdraw or Giga Drain.

I don't really remember Snorlax well; IIRC it was fairly powerful straight off from capture and wasn't really used with a lot of strategy but I might be wrong on that.

 

[WatcherMark]

Dodaitose was joke the second it evolved into Hayashigame, rather than just being useless in its last form. I mean, the thing was knocked out in every single battle it took part in after evolving for the first time (unless you count battles against Team Rocket). The only moment of reasonable glory it got after evolving was defeating Suzana's Nyula, and even then it was quickly knocked out afterwards. I believe the writers literally saw Dodaitose as a punching bag, like having a trainer defeat showed how powerful they were. But this didn't make the trainers seem strong as much as it made Dodaitose seem really weak.

I can see what the opening post is getting at. Out of Satoshi's three Pokemon that can be considered tanks (Dodaitose, Cotoise and Kabigon), only Kabigon was shown to be a decent battler. During its time on the show, I can only recall Cotoise defeating three Pokemon (Senri's Namakero, a random trainer's Hassam and Tetsuya's Dirteng). Although it did well against Jindai's Registeel, it's appearance during the battle against Takuto in the Suzuran Conference was a joke, being knocked out in less in five seconds.

I think the problem is that the writers have difficulty in properly using large and slow Pokemon in the show, since battles involving them typically can't be as fast-paced as we're used to. Remember how Kabigon was unceremoniously kicked out of Satoshi's team before his final battle in the Orange League?

 

[Shinneth]

Not gonna lie; I'm a little annoyed that there's a thread solely dedicated to something I alone have said a handful of times. If anyone else has made a mention of this, I haven't seen it, but the thread title is literally a quotation of mine, more or less. Seeing that nitpicked just bugs me. Then again, this week is not my rational week.

But I'm agreeing with the above here wholeheartedly about Torterra, who really did go on a downward spiral and pretty much took Buizel's place as punching bag during the latter part of the series. What's annoying about the case of Torterra is that in the episode it evolved to Grotle, Ash realized he would have to abandon the speed tactics he used to utilize with Turtwig and focus on the defensive aspects of Grotle/Torterra to make it work in battle. Ultimately, Ash's solution to his Sinnoh tank's problem was.... bypass the lack of speed issue entirely by having it learn Rock Climb. So really, Ash hardly did squat to make the most of Grotle/Torterra's abilities and tried to have Torterra as a makeshift glass cannon like the rest of his team. And we really saw how Ash was not doing Torterra any favors by the time he used it against Paul (who was so much better at representing how Torterra should be used), seeing as Torterra was indisputably the least-effective Pokemon of Ash's team during that battle. I really, really wanted Paul to tell Ash how much he was Doing It Wrong with Torterra then, if only to rub in the fact that Ash failed to make the best of his Pokemon's situation.

Torkoal was hardly a gem among Ash's Hoenn team, per the above post. The thing is, I identified Ash with being the type who's naturally inclined to a team of glass cannons. That he would have issues with making use of any tanks or other defensive-oriented Pokemon is rather logical, I think. Hell, Ash's best defensive technique so far was Counter Shield, but that was simultaneously made for defensive AND offensive purposes. For DP especially, it seemed natural for Ash to be inclined to speed demons and glass cannons because Paul was the one whose best Pokemon were his tanks and defensive-oriented Pokemon. That's a clash of polar opposites.

But even without the symbolic backing of his rivalry with Paul, Ash was rather consistent in favoring his speedy glass cannons, and they were the ones who always flourished in one way or another. That's why I objected to Ash getting Roggenrola in the first place; based on past evidence, combined with Ash's sudden regression and overload of incompentence, I figured there was no way in hell he would be able to use a Boldore or Gigalith in a way that would bring balance in his team. But BW's full of inconsistencies, maybe Boldore will end up being the next Snorlax, but I kinda doubt it, and there really aren't enough instances of it being used to say with certainty that Ash uses it well. But BW Ash has a load of other problems as it is, most notably the fact that he has too many goddamn Pokemon and nearly all of them have terrible move sets.

With all that to consider and with the (lack of) rate that Ash's Unova Team gets any real development... I'd say it's totally reasonable to think Ash will most likely fuck it up with Boldore just like he did with Torterra.

 

[Caseydia]

I think this statement is silly. The only other tank he has is Torterra. And he has been shown to be able to use Boldore well. It all depends how it is written, Boldore would win the whole league if it was written that way

Are we considering Boldore a tank already so soon? And no, I don't think it will be the one to sweep the league like Charizard normally does.

 

[WatcherMark]

... most notably the fact that he has too many goddamn Pokemon and nearly all of them have terrible move sets.

Ironically, Gantle is the only Pokemon other than Pikachu that I consider to have a moveset that could be duplicated in-game. One status move and three other moves of different types... it's just a pity that the moveset is the only thing Gantle has going for it right now.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Ash used Boldore pretty well so far I don't think it ever lost. It was great in the Tag battle and it was a boldore. So yeah the writers just really hated Torterra.

 

[Ash Ketchum!]

Ash used Boldore pretty well so far I don't think it ever lost. It was great in the Tag battle and it was a boldore. So yeah the writers just really hated Torterra.

Boldore lost in the battle against Juniper and Bianca

 

[Ashs Battle Coach]

Grotle did awesome against palmer, but that was mostly due to the swallowing energy ball thing, which he never did during a battle again, such wasted opportunity. The biggest problem i see with the tanks is it would be so easy to make them effective, but they just don't. Boldore could be great, lose sandstorm, teach it protect, that coupled with its high defense can draw opponents in close, then beat the crap out of them with the combonation of rock blast, rock smash and flash cannon. It doesnt even have to move.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Ash used Boldore pretty well so far I don't think it ever lost. It was great in the Tag battle and it was a boldore. So yeah the writers just really hated Torterra.

Boldore lost in the battle against Juniper and Bianca

YEAH but his team won which was the goal. Ash knew it was the right choice to block and it payed off seeing as Cilan won.

 

[AshK]

Ash really likes a speedy heads on strategy, I think even trainers in the anime commented on that, and trainers have even taken advantage of it. His tanks just don't fit with his usual style, but its nice that he switches it up.