What are your opinions on Ash?

SinnohEevee

SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
Scorbunny Fan
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
3,019
Reaction score
2,782
What do you think of his character? Does he suck? Is he good? Is he too stupid? Did BW forever doom his character?

BTW, it was brought to my attention that some fans prefer a stupid Ash than a serious one. What the Hell? Do these people hate him?
 
Ash? I say that he is ideal protagonist trainer for the Pokémon. He loves Pokémon but is reckless and immature from the beginning. But he learns during his journey and overtime, becomes skilled enough to be a force to be reckoned with. I've written a dime a dozen on Satoshi's character. Mostly on Tumblr:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

View: https://rex-shadao.tumblr.com/post/150249520656/the-boy-from-pallet-town-ash-ketchum-satoshi/embed



But I will say that DP is the peak of his character development and XY is the peak of where his character could go. And from that point on, Ash is just a static character with no direction. Might as well reboot.

I should also note that I tend to feel that Ash Ketchum seems to be portrayed dumber in the English dub compared to his Japanese counterpart. I don't know why, but Satoshi feels more... badass? Or maybe it's more alive... I don't know. Point is, I feel more engaged with Satoshi's character than with Ash's.
 
Ash is the Anime equivalent of an American superhero. He has all the all the attributes of a great Protagonist - a rough start, and an unorthodox way of gathering and training Pokemon. A totally offbeat trainer that tries to break the norm from normal battles...

But the curse of the American superhero syndrome forces him into a forever rewinding state, pandering back to the 'fresh beginning' that attracted people to Ash in the first place, and never finding an ending to his story - nor expanding the development of him to create such ending.

I feel that Ash has been milked way too much by the franchise, and to a point of abuse right now. I believe the writers should find it in their hearts to give Ash an ending he truly deserves soon, and create a new lead to fill his place. He doesn't have to be the only one to have the traits that make a good trainer protagonist.
 
Lanstar said:
Ash is the Anime equivalent of an American superhero. He has all the all the attributes of a great Protagonist - a rough start, and an unorthodox way of gathering and training Pokemon. A totally offbeat trainer that tries to break the norm from normal battles...

But the curse of the American superhero syndrome forces him into a forever rewinding state, pandering back to the 'fresh beginning' that attracted people to Ash in the first place, and never finding an ending to his story - nor expanding the development of him to create such ending.

I feel that Ash has been milked way too much by the franchise, and to a point of abuse right now. I believe the writers should find it in their hearts to give Ash an ending he truly deserves soon, and create a new lead to fill his place. He doesn't have to be the only one to have the traits that make a good trainer protagonist.
Click to expand...

I say the best comparison to that analogy would be Spider-Man, minus the whole Make a Deal with Devil to get rid of a marriage in order save an old aunt from a bullet wound that no one can conveniently heal.
 
SinnohEevee said:
BTW, it was brought to my attention that some fans prefer a stupid Ash than a serious one. What the Hell? Do these people hate him?
Click to expand...

I prefer a stupid Ash and I don't hate him. To be more specific, I prefer "idiot savant" Ash; one who's a great battler but just dumb outside of them. Putting it kindly, idiots are just fun to watch. They have a greater range of emotions and are a consistent source of comedy. More than that, they have an ability to surprise people with flashes of ingenuity and unpredictability, which can be both funny and awesome.

The serious Ash has his own merits but is more predictable and not as expansive a character.

Think of it this way: the vast majority of protagonists in adventure/action shows tend to be stupid, not serious. They can get serious, but their baseline character is one that's generally idiotic. It's a cliche but one that tends to work.

Shadao said:
I should also note that I tend to feel that Ash Ketchum seems to be portrayed dumber in the English dub compared to his Japanese counterpart. I don't know why, but Satoshi feels more... badass? Or maybe it's more alive... I don't know. Point is, I feel more engaged with Satoshi's character than with Ash's.
Click to expand...

For me the difference lies in the voice performance. Neither of Ash's English VA's has come close to matching Rica Matsumoto's performance. They just can't capture the same energy and passion, while also sounding young and boyish.
 
I mentioned on the Serena thread about Continuity, and I think Lanstar has the right of it.

  • Like American Superheroes. Pokemon is itself a long running story with a beginning but no end.
  • Like American Superheroes, Ash winds up having to foil larger scale threats on an annual basis.
  • Like American Super heroes, he has to deal with criminals on a regular basis, the only difference is that its the same guys every time, no rouges gallery.
This is all tongue in cheek (except the first point). The real comparison I want to make is how both the pokemon anime and Superhero comics handle one thing. Continuity.

In the 20 years our seemingly ageless protagonist traversed the world, he wound up on so many adventures and met so many people, only for circumstances to force them to go their separate ways at the end of it all. A parallel that can be analogous to the various reboots Marvel and DC had, with a few differences (one that brings it closer to Marvels recent relaunches or DC Rebirth).

From the moment a new saga starts all previous continuity gets thrown out the window with the exception of the end and whenever a previous companion visits. Maybe with a few nods here and there. All of Ash's journey's are more self contained in comparison. Whereas Superhero stories build on past material (contemporary examples being DC Rebirth's focus on its entire history, Watchmen, Flashpoint, The New 52 and those that came between. For Marvel, their current treatment of Captain America was spanning from Avengers Standoff and Civil War II and supposed to reach its conclusion in Secret Empire.) The one exception was the Kanto and Johto arcs, but that could be due to the regions being neighbors and GF entering uncharted territory with Gen 3.

The 20th movie seems like an actual reboot in comparison, but I expect it to be more like Ultimate Marvel or DC's Elseworlds instead of something that's supposed to replace the anime canon. But the effect of the reboot, to brings things back to their humble beginnings and create a new starting point for audiences, is still in effect when Ash goes to a new region.
 
SinnohEevee said:
BTW, it was brought to my attention that some fans prefer a stupid Ash than a serious one. What the Hell? Do these people hate him?
Click to expand...

Ash is probably my favorite character in the anime. And I hated "serious" Ash.

First of all, to call Ash "stupid" is not correct. He's far more dense than he is stupid. He is oblivious to certain things, due in large part because he's so passionate about other things. Ash's forte has been shown to be almost everything related to Pokémon. He's shown to be very good at coming up with battling strategies, different ways to befriend Pokémon, and different training techniques. A "stupid" character would not be able to do those things. Ash's personality, I really feel, is at its best when he's shown being a bit goofy, silly, clueless, and even rash, testy, stubborn and arrogant.

To me, "serious" Ash was void of any personality. Really, I didn't see why I should care about a character who had absolutely nothing to offer outside of battle proficiency. It felt like watching a robot, honestly. I like it when I can relate to a character, through different emotions or mistakes. "Serious" Ash came across as flawless and, therefore, really fake.
 
Islander Princess said:
Ash is probably my favorite character in the anime. And I hated "serious" Ash.

First of all, to call Ash "stupid" is not correct. He's far more dense than he is stupid. He is oblivious to certain things, due in large part because he's so passionate about other things. Ash's forte has been shown to be almost everything related to Pokémon. He's shown to be very good at coming up with battling strategies, different ways to befriend Pokémon, and different training techniques. A "stupid" character would not be able to do those things. Ash's personality, I really feel, is at its best when he's shown being a bit goofy, silly, clueless, and even rash, testy, stubborn and arrogant.

To me, "serious" Ash was void of any personality. Really, I didn't see why I should care about a character who had absolutely nothing to offer outside of battle proficiency. It felt like watching a robot, honestly. I like it when I can relate to a character, through different emotions or mistakes. "Serious" Ash came across as flawless and, therefore, really fake.
Click to expand...

But stupid Ash, I was referring to BW Ash. I can get him being dense, but not a noob like in Best Wishes.
 
He went to Kanto's whipping boy to a trainer who took out Darkrai. He deserves respect.
 
I disliked stupid and dense Ash from BW. I did like Ash during the original series because he was funny, caring, and unorthodox. My favorite Ash is XY Ash where he's a veteran, yet still had room to grow and mature as a trainer. He was well-respected by his friends and he acted as their mentor and inspiration. While he wasn't as silly as he was in the original series, his boyish charms were never lost. XY Ash re-ignited that soft spot I had for him that I thought I had lost over the years growing up.

I am not sure about SM Ash.
 
Here's what some people on Facebook feel about Ash back in March.
Screenshot_2017-03-20-11-57-11.png
Screenshot_2017-03-20-11-57-21.png
 
I like him. He's actually my favorite character in the anime, and I liked his development throughout the series, going from an inexperienced brat to a much more capable and mature Trainer. However, there are two of his personas which I really cannot stand: his BW and SM selves.

What I really don't like about them is that they are a very visible attempt at "refreshing" his character, by giving him a more "fun" attitude and trying to turn him into a lovable dummy. The problem is that by doing so they ended up stripping him of some of his most important traits, namely his experience in BW and his dedication in SM.

In BW, he did terrible noob mistakes like throwing a Pokeball at a wild Pokemon without first battling it (which he shouldn't really have done, since he had caught at least 25 Pokemon before going to Unova) and trying to face a Gym Leader with one Pokemon (I mean, he could have tried to solo a Gym Leader, since he had soloed Wattson in the past, but some backup in case the plan failed wouldn't have hurt), while in SM he doesn't put much effort in his current objectives, the school and the Island Challenge (which, if we want to be frank, is already a mess on its own). Also, having him turned into a Butt-Monkey isn't really helping, since he has essentially become an overly cartoonish buffoon, and his few serious moments can't be taken too seriously anymore.

I have nothing against butt-monkeys, and in fact I really like Phoenix Wright, who is the prime example of a butt-monkey. The problem is that there is a terrible unbalance between humor and seriousness with Ash, and it is really unbalanced toward the former. And before anyone says this, I admit that in DP and XY he was too unbalanced toward seriousness, but unbalance is still unbalance, regardless of how you cut it. Too humor-filled is as bad as too serious-filled.

If I had to write him, I would make him closer to his AG persona. That was the most balanced one, where he had a very dynamic personality, many funny moments and was also dedicated to training and battles. In terms of overall character, he was at his best there, while as a Trainer he reached his top in XY.

I actually don't mind too much that he hasn't won a League yet, but I would like his character to be handled with much more consistency, even if he were not to go anywhere. Goku is consistent, Luffy is consistent, Conan is consistent, even Nobita is consistent. Why can't Ash be consistent as well?
 
I like Ash as a character, but, i feel like they were picking on him far too much for the majority of the First Season and part of the Second season, and i'm not just referring to the other characters, i'm also referring to the writers who made him like that for whatever reason. It bothers me because May and Dawn were both rookie trainers by the time they met Ash and yet, they handled themselves a little bit better than he did on their first times.

Misty in particular was a bit hard on Ash and Gary seemed way rough on him too. Even Professor Oak wouldn't get off his case at certain times and it just doesn't seem right that Charmeleon/Charizard just suddenly decided that Ash wasn't worth listening to, isn't this one of the very same people who saved his life and the one who treated him far better than his old trainer did?

Ash being the mentor character for both Advanced and Diamond and Pearl was a nice effect, though BW's portrayal of him really didn't sit well with me, this is the same trainer who defeated a person with an unbeatable Darkrai and made it to the Semi-finals, and yet, some newbie trainer with a Snivy and a hypocritical snobbish dragon trainer with little substance to back it up are acting as if they were his superiors? What's worse, Iris' behavior only reminded me of how rough Misty was on Ash, and i was really starting to see some real camaraderie between Ash and Misty by the ending parts of Season two. I'm just saying that there's giving constructive criticism and then there's just cracking down on someone with an "I could have done it much better" attitude, which doesn't really help all that much, and is mostly just being mean.

As far Ash's portrayal in XY(Z) goes, i really like it. It shows Ash as an experienced trainer and one that the others admire so much, that they rarely, if ever, have anything bad or negative to say about him, i liked it.
 
Rockapheller said:
Can you expand that statement more?
Click to expand...

Sure thing. What I think is that Ash during those sagas felt a bit too generic in terms of personality, and lacks some defining traits that make him stand out compared to the saga-exclusive characters, who tend to have more defined and dynamic personalities. This made him look a bit too "adult" and "boring" in some circumstances, while making him appear bland in comparison.

Aside of some moments where he showed a more childish glee and enthusiasm, like geeking about Clemont's inventions, he tended to show common and generic shonen character traits: loves to eat, has a passion for challenges, is determined and courageous, he never gives up, always cheerful, little focus on his flaws. Those are traits commonly seen in other protagonists of other mangas and animes, and that makes him feel almost like an anime stereotype, in a sense.

Now, I didn't have many problems with the DP and XY personas, and I actually liked that he was a bit more serious and psychologically grown up. However, it would be appreciated if he had some trait that made him feel more unique and different from other protagonists from other series, while still keeping what makes Ash… well, Ash. "Funny Dumb Hero" doesn't cut it either, since even that kind of personality is overdone.
 
According to my mom, I liked Ash a lot when I was growing up, but as an adult I feel very annoyed by him. Although I haven't outgrown Pokemon as a franchise (I casually play the games and enjoy collecting merch), I feel that I may have outgrown the Pokemon anime for the most part. (I say "for the most part" because I did enjoy the few Sun/Moon episodes I've seen and I'll probably wind up watching it if/when it eventually winds up on Netflix.)
 
So I have mixed feelings about Ash and my opinion is going to sound very contradicting so forgive me. He had a giant heart for pokemon and treated every single one he encountered like any trainer should. He cared for all his pokemon, raised them, trained them with respect, and would never let anything happen to them, even if it meant sacrificing himself or putting himself in danger to save them or make sure they were safe. Now even though I respect ash for being a noble trainer and a good person, there were some episodes I found where he made me cringe a lot with his big “hero” ego. He put his journey on hold lots of times to stick his nose in a lot of situations that weren’t really his to be involved in. Now I’m not saying he was wrong, because he’s saved a lot of pokemon from distress, and stopped alot bad people . But sometimes, I would just face palm at moments where he would just run in without thinking and put himself in these predicaments, and there were some instances where he did it without analyzing the situation first like the episode with officer Jenny and her growlithes. He thought he stopped a robber, but it was actually an undercover cop in combat training . He also let team rocket fool him countless times with their poor disguises and kept letting pikachu and his other pokemon into their hands. And the fact that he was suprised so many times drove me crazy. In conclusion, despite his lack of brains sometimes, ash was a very dedicated trainer and had lots of passion. He made lots of friends during his adventure and many really respect him for being there at the right time when they needed help.
 
Felt like keeping Ash around after Kalos was a huge mistake despite the accomplishments. The anime got stagnant with Ash past XYZ. Plus I always felt Ash never lost to Alain in the Kalos League, he got flat out screwed. Somebody didn’t want Ash to win.
 
Please note: The thread is from 1 year ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
Back
Top Bottom