What chances does PokéShipping have?

[FabuVinny]

I've noticed that most PokéShipping debates tend to focus on ad Hominem of PokéShippers and/or interpretations of Misty's absense of the show. Both ignore the main argument of PokéShippers (as I see it) so this thread is designed to focus on just one statement. Normally, I don't mind threads flowing off topic but in this case I am going to insist that it focusses on the main point and that any other steam venting goes in the general PokéShipping debate thread. The only exception is natural follow-ups to any conclusions made.

The argument is as follows:

While PokéShipping is not a current plot line, Misty is the most likely candidate should the writers decide to give Ash a romantic interest in the future as the current canon stands.

I will clarify that this refers to some projected ending saga, rather than in the next few years. Unknown events such as, say, Ash and Hikari becoming attracted to each other, are not supported by the current canon and are thus are currently less likely to happen than Ash/Misty. (But, again, don't pull the thread off topic with debating a different ship. Just create or post in a seperate debate thread.)

 

[Jo-Jo]

While PokéShipping is not a current plot line, Misty is the most likely candidate should the writers decide to give Ash a romantic interest in the future as the current canon stands.

^ I think one of the reasons the other threads are always going off into ad hominem tangents is because nobody can actually refute that.

 

[Nando]

Sometimes I wonder how I'm an AbilityShipper when I supported PokeShipping for roughly forever and then wrote a fic about it....

 

[xRubyx]

Pokeshipping rocks! and it will happen!!!! >:<

 

[Chaosblazer]

While PokéShipping is not a current plot line, Misty is the most likely candidate should the writers decide to give Ash a romantic interest in the future as the current canon stands.

This is not a fact however, this is mearly an opinion shared by pokeshippers.

I will clarify that this refers to some projected ending saga, rather than in the next few years.

Which is something people shouldn't be concerned with, no one has any idea when the show will end so tring to set an "ending stage" for something that doesn't even belong in the show is not a good idea, considering Ash's "current" character and all.

Unknown events such as, say, Ash and Hikari becoming attracted to each other, are not supported by the current canon and are thus are currently less likely to happen than Ash/Misty.

Let me use an example of another shipping if only to explain something about Pokeshipping.

The thing that you and others fail to realise is Tracey is the closet boy to her out of the shippings that involve her at the moment and considering how easy it is for him to visit her, and the fact that the two of them are off screen means that anything that can go down between them is very plausible as well.

In short Pokeshipping isn't only measured on Ash's side, but that's the problem, people think that Misty is closed off from other men becuase of Ash, and that's not true as i just pointed out, people need to realise that, the writers are free to do whatever they want with her because she isn't on the main cast anymore, she's not even on screen that much either for anything involving her to matter, Ash on the other hand has to follow what the writers want, becuase he will always be on the main cast unless they take the GX approach that Yu-gi-oh took someday but until then Ash's character is only intrested in his pokemon, not girls.

 

[Pague]

I imagine that yes, as the canon stands it is likely that if the writers do choose to add a romantic subplot involving Ash it'll be Misty. On the other hand, the likliness of them doing this is very, very low unless, as you said, they plan to end the series. Since they don't seem to be planning on ending the series any time soon, 'Current canon' has a lot of time to change.

Even ignoring advance and pearl shipping, the writers might introduce another female character or maybe even have a different old one (Anabel? I think there's others but I don't remember them.) make a temporary return at the end of the series. Then there's Misty's side, as Chaosblazer said. (On the other hand unless they have even more Misty episodes then I doubt anything WILL happen. I don't think they'd have a relationship going on offscreen, really.)

BUT if the series was to end next episode and they wanted a relationship in there with Ash then yes, it would more than likley be Misty. I can't argue against that. I hope that doesn't happen, though. I am a pokeshipper but really I'd prefer no relationship over one slapped together because they need a love intrest for Ash.

Sorry if this made no sense, I just woke up.

 

[Archaic]

This is not a fact however, this is mearly an opinion shared by pokeshippers.

If it's not a fact, may I ask what you would consider to be?

Here, I'll make it easy for you. Fill in the blanks.
While Blank is not a current plot line, Blank is the most likely candidate should the writers decide to give Ash a romantic interest in the future as the current canon stands.

Which is something people shouldn't be concerned with, no one has any idea when the show will end so tring to set an "ending stage" for something that doesn't even belong in the show is not a good idea, considering Ash's "current" character and all.

Why shouldn't we be? Any shipping can only become true at the very end of a series, simply due to the fact that a character could possibly change their affections in the meanwhile.
Having said that, it would be incorrect to not assume the continuation of the current status-quo, barring events which have as yet not happened.

Let me use an example of another shipping if only to explain something about Pokeshipping.

The thing that you and others fail to realise is Tracey is the closet boy to her out of the shippings that involve her at the moment and considering how easy it is for him to visit her, and the fact that the two of them are off screen means that anything that can go down between them is very plausible as well.

I would have to disagree. That would require two things. Firstly, Tracey to have displayed attraction to Misty (hasn't happened, and he's even acknowledged and egged on Ash and Misty before), and Misty to have displayed attraction to Tracey (also hasn't happened).
You can't assume a relationship, either now or in the future, just because two character could possibly do something. Your arguments have to be based on the actual demonstrated feelings of the involved characters.

In short Pokeshipping isn't only measured on Ash's side, but that's the problem, people think that Misty is closed off from other men becuase of Ash, and that's not true as i just pointed out, people need to realise that, the writers are free to do whatever they want with her because she isn't on the main cast anymore, she's not even on screen that much either for anything involving her to matter, Ash on the other hand has to follow what the writers want, becuase he will always be on the main cast unless they take the GX approach that Yu-gi-oh took someday but until then Ash's character is only intrested in his pokemon, not girls.

Incorrect. We don't consider her "closed off" from other men, and have no problem acknowledging that she could possibly get in a relationship with someone else. What we say is that this possibility is not as likely as the continuation of the status quo. Sure, she could get involved with another character, but until we actually see evidence of attraction between her and someone else, there's no reason this possibility should enter into our reasoning.

Let me state it another way, turning your argument around.
Just because Misty is not on the main cast anymore, is no reason for us to assume that the current status quo will be altered. It would be a reasonable assumption that, were they to alter the status quo, they would do it on screen, in an episode, even if that episode did it in a way that implied other things happening off screen in the meanwhile. Until such time as that happens, the only valid assumption is the continuation of the current status quo.

 

[Ash-ketchum]

i think pokeshipping has a chance

 

[Chaosblazer]

If it's not a fact, may I ask what you would consider to be?

May i ask why you are so certain of it being set in stone like the rest of them?

Ash's current characterazation only cares fully about training his pokemon and tring to become a pokemon master, pairing him with a girl at all will only ruin his development.

Why shouldn't we be? Any shipping can only become true at the very end of a series, simply due to the fact that a character could possibly change their affections in the meanwhile.

I find it rather meaningless for people to be obseessing over something that has little chance of happening, any shipping that doesn't involve Ash might happen of course.

I would have to disagree. That would require two things. Firstly, Tracey to have displayed attraction to Misty (hasn't happened, and he's even acknowledged and egged on Ash and Misty before), and Misty to have displayed attraction to Tracey (also hasn't happened).

Tracey and her are good friends you must admit, plus he gave her an Azzurill(oh wait i forgot, Pokeshippers don't ackowledge it's existance>>), and both of them are not on the main cast or even on screen that much anymore, the writers are free to do with them whatever they want. I'm not saying thay will become a couple definitely, but at the moment it's more likely to happen than Ash and Misty.

You can't assume a relationship, either now or in the future, just because two character could possibly do something. Your arguments have to be based on the actual demonstrated feelings of the involved characters.

The same thing can be said back to you pokeshippers, it's not automatically set in stone that Ash and her are going to be a couple, nor has Ash shown any intrest in her that way, because he cares about training his pokemon more than women.

Incorrect. We don't consider her "closed off" from other men, and have no problem acknowledging that she could possibly get in a relationship with someone else.

Incorrect indeed, considering how defensive you just got towards Tracey, and no one in thier right mind sees Misty and Brock getting together, that leaves one person, Ash.>>

Sure, she could get involved with another character, but until we actually see evidence of attraction between her and someone else, there's no reason this possibility should enter into our reasoning.

She's not a main character anymore, they can do WHATEVER they want to her since we hardly see her to begin with.

Just because Misty is not on the main cast anymore, is no reason for us to assume that the current status quo will be altered.

I disagree with that entirely, it can easily be altered because anything can happen to her off screen.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear, Ash currently doesn't care about women above the friendship level nor do i ever expect that to change about him, so that means every ship that involves him has about as much of a chance of happening as hell does of freezeing over, cause his character would be completely destroyed if they even attempted to do it, and don't try to come up with excuses for Pokeshipping either it has no leeway on the matter, none of the ships that involve him do.

 

[Kasumi]

There's one problem with your argument Chaosblazer, and that's the fact that Ash has shown jealousy when Misty was interested in other guys: See Rudy and Danny in Orange Islands.

He might be clueless to notice if a girl likes him, but that doesn't mean he's not capable of having feelings towards Misty or any other girl for that matter. And he certainly doesn't need to be like Brock, jumping over every girl he sees to show he has matured in that sense.

And I don't see how making him interested in girls would destroy him. There's something called character development, if you haven't noticed. Ash has matured a lot as a trainer. Compare him from his early Kanto days to now and you'll see. So why wouldn't the writers make him mature in the romantic sense?

In short, as the current canon goes, Misty and Ash getting together at a possible end of the series is the most likely thing to happen if the writers want to give him a love interest.

Tracey might be closer to Misty now, but both of them denied being in a relationship in the Hosos and we cannot asume something's going on off screen.

 

[Chaosblazer]

There's one problem with your argument Chaosblazer, and that's the fact that Ash has shown jealousy when Misty was interested in other guys: See Rudy and Danny in Orange Islands.

Take a look for yourself at how long ago that was, sides i did just say i wasn't oblivious to the moments, but as soon as Jouto began that's when they declined and then BOOM, Misty was sent back to the gym.

Besides, Ash and May also had a few moments between them too, as did he and Anabel as well, but a few moments don't change the overall tone of a character besides they usually get drowned out by the next episode.

He might be clueless to notice if a girl likes him, but that doesn't mean he's not capable of having feelings towards Misty or any other girl for that matter. And he certainly doesn't need to be like Brock, jumping over every girl he sees to show he has matured in that sense.

In terms of being friends with them yes that would be right, but going above that is potential character destruction.

And I don't see how making him interested in girls would destroy him. There's something called character development, if you haven't noticed. Ash has matured a lot as a trainer. Compare him from his early Kanto days to now and you'll see. So why wouldn't the writers make him mature in the romantic sense?

Funny enough i do compare him to his old self, and in terms of romance i see the same as always, nothing happening, and think about it. The show has been running for 10 years now, and the closest thing to romance in the show is Brock's flirting, and May's shoujo like story. Ash on the other hand has been doing the same thing the whole time..staying focused on training his pokemon, if they haven't had him show intrest in women above the friendship level in that long why would they even bother to change it.

Speaking of Maturity, i know that some people think that Ash and Misty were meant for each other due to thier attitudes. Well, considering they have been maturing in different enviorments i don't think they would match up well at all anymore, but then again, Ash's character would be killed off anyway if they tried.

In short, as the current canon goes, Misty and Ash getting together at a possible end of the series is the most likely thing to happen if the writers want to give him a love interest.

Current Canon...ha don't make me laugh, did they do anything on the level of contestshipping...i think not, it didn't even come close, Contestshipping is the only shipping that can declare itself as canon, Pokeshipping doesn't have that honor.

Overall, maybe YOU should watch the show better, From what i've seen from day 1 to now is the same thing in romance terms, Ash is so focused on raising his pokemon that for him to show intrest in a girl above the friendship level at all is character suicide.

 

[Kasumi]

Besides, Ash and May also had a few moments between them too, as did he and Anabel as well, but a few moments don't change the overall tone of a character besides they usually get drowned out by the next episode.

Excuse me? What moments did Ash and May have? Because seriously, you must have been watching another series. May was never interested in Ash in the romantic sense and even less when Drew was introduced. And Ash has never shown any sort of jealousy when Drew was around.

As for Anabel, Ash never noticed she had a crush on him. You obviously didn't read my post since I said Ash obviously has/had a thing for Misty at some point in time.

In terms of being friends with them yes that would be right, but going above that is potential character destruction.

I fail to see how Ash at then end of the series being paired with Misty or any other female character would destroy his personality.

Funny enough i do compare him to his old self, and in terms of romance i see the same as always, nothing happening, and think about it. The show has been running for 10 years now, and the closest thing to romance in the show is Brock's flirting, and May's shoujo like story. Ash on the other hand has been doing the same thing the whole time..staying focused on training his pokemon, if they haven't had him show intrest in women above the friendship level in that long why would they even bother to change it.

Why wouldn't they? Granted, the main focus of Pokémon is the battles and contests, but that doesn't mean at the END of the series we're not going to get a time skip and see all the characters with their respective partners, to put it in a way. Something like Digimon 02 did and romance was never the focus of that series either.

Speaking of Maturity, i know that some people think that Ash and Misty were meant for each other due to thier attitudes. Well, considering they have been maturing in different enviorments i don't think they would match up well at all anymore, but then again, Ash's character would be killed off anyway if they tried.

I still fail to see how Ash ending up with Misty would kill his character.

Current Canon...ha don't make me laugh, did they do anything on the level of contestshipping...i think not, it didn't even come close, Contestshipping is the only shipping that can declare itself as canon, Pokeshipping doesn't have that honor.

Misty's feelings towards Ash were made very clear, especially in Gotta Catch You Later, if that isn't canon, then I don't know what it is. As for Contestshipping, everyone pretty much agrees is canon. What does that have to do with Pokeshipping? I fail to see your point, since Contestshipping had to have a proper ending as BOTH May and Drew were going to be out of the show at the end of AG.

Overall, maybe YOU should watch the show better.

Funny, I had the same suggestion for you.

 

[Habunake]

Character Development = CHARACTER MELTDOWN!

 

[Chaosblazer]

Excuse me? What moments did Ash and May have? Because seriously, you must have been watching another series. May was never interested in Ash in the romantic sense and even less when Drew was introduced. And Ash has never shown any sort of jealousy when Drew was around.

They had a few over the course of AG, but of course it's typical of a Pokeshipper to not notice them.

As for Anabel, Ash never noticed she had a crush on him. You obviously didn't read my post since I said Ash obviously has/had a thing for Misty at some point in time.

Did he declare outright that he did, did he ever bring those moments you brought up earlier back up ever again after those episodes, Ash has never implied he had anything for Misty above the friendship level, of couse now i see where this is going to end up....

I fail to see how Ash at then end of the series being paired with Misty or any other female character would destroy his personality.

I fail to see how you or anyone who has watched this show from day one thinks otherwise, look at how Ash is for pete's sake, if he hasn't shown intrest in girls above the friend level in 10 freaking years what in god's name makes you think he is suddenly going to change.

Why wouldn't they? Granted, the main focus of Pokémon is the battles and contests, but that doesn't mean at the END of the series we're not going to get a time skip and see all the characters with their respective partners, to put it in a way. Something like Digimon 02 did and romance was never the focus of that series either.

Pokemon isn't Digimon, thinking ahead to the future is typical of pokeshippers though, that's all they every care about.>>

I still fail to see how Ash ending up with Misty would kill his character.

Maybe because like i've said countless times, he only cares about training his pokemon and becoming a pokemon master. He's been that way from the day the show started and i do not expect that to change.

Misty's feelings towards Ash were made very clear, especially in Gotta Catch You Later, if that isn't canon, then I don't know what it is.

That episode will always be contested differently by people, besides that i see some people say Pokeshipping became one sided, that still doesn't make it canon at all, it only becomes canon if BOTH characters involved show feelings that way towards each other, and that hasn't happened of course.

As for Contestshipping, everyone pretty much agrees is canon. What does that have to do with Pokeshipping? I fail to see your point, since Contestshipping had to have a proper ending as BOTH May and Drew were going to be out of the show at the end of AG.

Considering that it is the ONLY ship to make canon status i'd say it has alot to do with Pokeshipping, think about how consistant it was throughout the battle frontier especially, did Pokeshipping ever go that far, it never even got close.

I see where this is headed though of course, so i'm going to stop.

 

[Archaic]

May i ask why you are so certain of it being set in stone like the rest of them?

Firstly...I've never said it was set in stone, only that it is the most likely ship to eventually happen for either Ash or Misty, given the current status quo.
Secondly...you've failed to answer either of my questions. Failing to reveal ones allegiances in a shipping debate is very poor form. I'll repeat my question. Don't sidestep it again.

If it's not a fact, what you would consider to be?

I'll make it easy for you. Fill in the blanks.
While Blank is not a current plot line, Blank is the most likely candidate should the writers decide to give Ash a romantic interest in the future as the current canon stands.

And while we're at it...
While Blank is not a current plot line, Blank is the most likely candidate should the writers decide to give Misty a romantic interest in the future as the current canon stands.

Ash's current characterazation only cares fully about training his pokemon and tring to become a pokemon master, pairing him with a girl at all will only ruin his development.

Irrelevant. Shipping is concerned with what will happen at the end of the series, not what will happen tomorrow.

I find it rather meaningless for people to be obseessing over something that has little chance of happening, any shipping that doesn't involve Ash might happen of course.

If you find it meaningless, why are you bothering to get involved in the debate?
Your entire argument seems thusfar to be "It couldn't happen with Ash because he's obsessed with Pokémon training at the moment", which totally ignores the fact that shipping is a long term thing, expected to happen at the end of a series.

Tracey and her are good friends you must admit, plus he gave her an Azzurill(oh wait i forgot, Pokeshippers don't ackowledge it's existance>>)

Strawman. We acknowledge the existence of that scene, we dispute the claim that it's a hint. Don't put words into our mouth.
Should I assume from you bringing up this long rebutted argument that you're an OrangeShipper?

, and both of them are not on the main cast or even on screen that much anymore, the writers are free to do with them whatever they want. I'm not saying thay will become a couple definitely, but at the moment it's more likely to happen than Ash and Misty.

False. You're mistaking the idea that the writers could do anything they liked with them (which isn't exactly true, since they do have limits on what they're allowed to do from the producers), that the writers will do something. What reason do the writers have to break the status quo? Just because they can? That's no reason at all.

The same thing can be said back to you pokeshippers, it's not automatically set in stone that Ash and her are going to be a couple, nor has Ash shown any intrest in her that way, because he cares about training his pokemon more than women.

Again, I'll remind you that we've never said it's set in stone, only that it's the most likely thing to happen, with the evidence we have.
As for Ash...he has shown jealousy over her on other occasions, and Tracey himself has even made comments about Ash and Misty, meaning he's seen something there, possibly beyond what we have.

Incorrect indeed, considering how defensive you just got towards Tracey, and no one in thier right mind sees Misty and Brock getting together, that leaves one person, Ash.>>

Go watch the Dragonite episode from the very first season. Misty and Brock was a credible argument for the early parts of Kanto.
You seem to be presuming some sort of motive here. "Defensive against Tracey"? If so, that's only because you brought him up as a possibility, and I shot it down with reasoning for why he's not a real possibility at this point in time. If it's defensive to shoot down peoples poorly thought out ideas, that were meant as an attack on your own, than colour me defensive.

She's not a main character anymore, they can do WHATEVER they want to her since we hardly see her to begin with.

Irrelevant. I'll repeat what I've said several times now. In bold. Maybe you'll get it this time.
We have no reason to presume that just because Misty is off the main cast, that the writers will do things to change the status quo with her, just because they can.

I disagree with that entirely, it can easily be altered because anything can happen to her off screen.

Just because it could be done, does not mean that it would be done. You have no reason to base your presumptions off. Unless we actually knew that the writers and producers wanted to do that, which we most certainly do not, then we have no reason to presume that the current status quo will change.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear, Ash currently doesn't care about women above the friendship level nor do i ever expect that to change about him, so that means every ship that involves him has about as much of a chance of happening as hell does of freezeing over, cause his character would be completely destroyed if they even attempted to do it, and don't try to come up with excuses for Pokeshipping either it has no leeway on the matter, none of the ships that involve him do.

Firstly...Ash has shown attraction and jealously towards Misty on a number of occasions.
Secondly, even if his current feelings for women are only on friendship level, this is entirely irrelevant to his future character development, which is what shipping is concerned with, not things that could possibily happen tomorrow.
Thirdly, no one is saying that any dramatic change to his character to make him truly fall in love with someone would have to happen overnight, which would damage his character. It is something that happens gradually, over time.

 

[Habunake]

Pokemon isn't Digimon, thinking ahead to the future is typical of pokeshippers though, that's all they every care about.>>

Didn't you once try to compare how the series will end with Yu-Gi-Oh (the main character pretty much dying?)

 

[Archaic]

They had a few over the course of AG, but of course it's typical of a Pokeshipper to not notice them.

NO. You don't get away with bull like this here, especially on my watch. If you say something is there, than you say exactly what it is, and you show the proof for it. Vague comments like this are worth nothing.


Going through all your posts since your reply to my one, I see two common threads, so I'll just reply to those and save us all some time.

Firstly...you seem to presume that, because Misty is off screen and "the writers can do anything they want with her", that they will do something, namely, what you seem to want, OrangeShipping. Two problems here. Firstly, as I stated before, just because they can do something, is no reason for them actually doing it. Secondly, if they were to change the status quo, they would need a reason to do so. We cannot assume they're just going to pluck it out of thin air and spring it on us. With no evidence of either Misty or Tracey showing attraction to each other (If you want to bring up the Azumaril scene again, be my guest, but be prepared to justify exactly how that demonstrates them both having attraction to each other), we have no reason to think that might happen, even less to actually assume it would happen.

Secondly...you continually state that Ash's character could not possibly fall in love with someone, simply because he's Pokémon obsessed, and to change that would destroy his character. You fail to take consideration here of the fact that Shipping is a long term thing, and it, even if it would take a dramatic change in character, this would not happen over a short period of time, so there would not actually be any danger of destroying his character. It'd simply be character development over time.

 

[Barb]

With respect to the Azumarill scene: is it logical to infer that Tracey gave Misty this particular Pokémon because it's a Water Type and he knows that she specializes in training Water Types?

 

[Habunake]

Possibly one of her Pokemon was the daddy (Psyduck?)

.....Staryu? (I knew he was a pimp!)

 

[Cybersai]

Pokeshipping could return at the very end of the series, but so far there is nothing pointing in that direction.

It could be the Ash ship they return to at the end of the series, but right now Ash has no love interest, and hasn't had one since AG started.