What do people, "expect" out of the female protagonists of the anime nowadays?

[Cybersai]

We've now had 4 female protagonists of the anime, and all of them were fairly different than one another. Some may share similar goals, (coordinators or Gym leaders), but other than that their characters and storylines play out completely differently.

I am just curious, but what exactly is it that people, "expect" the female protagonist to accomplish in the series? We all know everyone will always play second fiddle to Ash, so no female protagonist will ever truly steal the show unless they get their own spinoff series, which obviously isn't happening.

Most of them wind up having the same accomplishments, whether it be getting far in a tournament, capturing a bunch of pokemon, having a rival, having some epic battles, or having some event happen in them. We've had female characters with connections to legendaries, some who have beaten Ash, some who have battled the villain teams, etc.

So I'm just curious, what exactly do people want? They have done 4 different types of female personalities to make sure almost every base is covered, (except the loner/emo girl, which wouldn't be good for pokemon), and character development in this show only goes so far.

So I am asking, what exactly do you want a female protagonist to do in the series? Haven't we covered nearly everything so far besides female Gym challenger, which is obviously not going to happen as long as Ash is around?

 

[FinalArcadia]

Hmm, good question.

I think it would be interesting if the female protagonist was not only Ash's traveling companion, but also his rival. A rival with a constant presence, constantly pushing each other to do better. With May and Dawn, their goals were very different than Ash's. I'm not saying that the female protagonist should want the exact things Ash does, but if their goals/dreams intersected a little more, giving rise to a friendly competition between them... That would be intriguing.

Also, it is always the older male companion who fulfills the "wise, nanny-type" role in the group. What if things got switched around, and a female protagonist was the "Brock" in the group now?

I mean, I'm fine with what's worked in the anime thus far. I don't pay as much attention to female characters to be honest, so I've had no complaints about them playing "second-fiddle" to Ash.

 

[Moe]

Also, it is always the older male companion who fulfills the "wise, nanny-type" role in the group. What if things got switched around, and a female protagonist was the "Brock" in the group now?

For one I'm very glad that this isn't the case - it would suck if the female of the group was in that Brock role and spending most of their on screen time making food for the other two.

As the Japanese opening credits make very clear, Dawn's the only one the writers ever considered as being near equal to Ash in terms of the protagonist role, all the other openings talk only of Satoshi's journey. I think it's also fair to say that Dawn got the best screen time out of the female protagonists overall, and I think her character also did the best job of impacting Ash - character development for Ash is in my view the reason for any character besides him.

On this most do well - Misty, despite Ash being to immature to accept people's advice for most of her time on the show, was always trying to get Ash to use logic and think about his match ups. Misty certainly didn't achieve her goal, but she had an impact on how Ash battled.

May is probably slightly weaker in this regard - Max basically filled the role of the character development for Ash character. Leaving May to not really have the direct relationship with Ash that would have led to him gaining a lot out of it.

Dawn got everything right, initially she was able to help Ash's skills by him being more of a mentor to her - it's ironic considering the events of early BW that at one point Ash was the one telling other people that they had to weaken a Pokemon first before capturing it. Later on in the series, the huge impact that Dawn's contest battle techniques had on Ash's battling shows how important her character was to Ash developing. The positive counterbalance to Paul is perhaps one way of putting it.

I don't want to hate on Iris, but while Misty used her previous experience to try to help Ash, Iris uses it to mock him. Cilan taking up a more active role than Brock ever did in development for Ash, kind of makes up for it, but leaves little for Iris to do in interacting with Ash. Her storyline can justify her being on a journey, but there isn't much in her current role that furthers Ash in any way.

So as for the ideal role, Ash needs someone he can help - sure there's the Brock figure to help out Ash, but Ash's character develops best when he's passing his skills on to others. That makes the noob Pokemon trainer in my view the best option for a female character, the problem is that the anime couldn't handle having a second Gym challenger in the group, so they need some other reason for their journey. Perhaps contests might be able to be freshened up for Gen 6, but otherwise something new would need to be developed. Perhaps a character like Angie would be good, enthusiastic young trainer, but with a goal that isn't to be a Pokemon master, though contests seem to be the best solution to avoiding endless filler that the anime has come up with.

In short, the female protagonist should be able to be in a role that allows Ash good development, either by sharing his skills and knowledge with a new trainer; or gaining knowledge from an established one.

 

[PDL]

At this point, it shouldn't matter what sex the character is, as long as he or she is interesting enough, then that's all that's needed.

Although I'm kinda glad that Iris isn't being as sexualized as the previous girls were...

 

[Cybersai]

Although I'm kinda glad that Iris isn't being as sexualized as the previous girls were...

You obviously haven't seen the fanart. It gets...bad.

 

[PDL]

You obviously haven't seen the fanart. It gets...bad.

Everything on the internet ever gets that treatment, so I'm not counting that. >_>

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

There still isn't the wise female protagonist yet, and Hilda could've fit that role, so she has a reason to be part of the cast rather than Iris. As for expectations, a female protagonist who, with enough popularity from the anime, has a chance to appear in a Smash Bros. game to increase the presence of female fighters (as long as it's not Iris that is).

 

[Cybersai]

So as for the ideal role, Ash needs someone he can help - sure there's the Brock figure to help out Ash, but Ash's character develops best when he's passing his skills on to others. That makes the noob Pokemon trainer in my view the best option for a female character, the problem is that the anime couldn't handle having a second Gym challenger in the group, so they need some other reason for their journey. Perhaps contests might be able to be freshened up for Gen 6, but otherwise something new would need to be developed. Perhaps a character like Angie would be good, enthusiastic young trainer, but with a goal that isn't to be a Pokemon master, though contests seem to be the best solution to avoiding endless filler that the anime has come up with.

I don't see the Contests being used again. They were used in AG because they were new in the games at the time and wanted to do a more important female protagonist for the first time, and probably kept for DP simply due to how successful they were in AG.

As you can see by the treatment of the Pokeathlon and Musicals, the writers simply don't care for the other sidequests and give them 1-off fillers. Anything that is battle-oriented will be done by Ash, so I can't see anything ever being treated that important again.

I honestly think the days of co-starring female protagonists are over and won't come again.

 

[El_]

I honestly think the days of co-starring female protagonists are over and won't come again.

That would suck. After D/P they should have more than enough experience to pull it off but I digress.

Agreed that the age of contest are over with. Like I mentioned in another thread I don't see whats the problem with having two people in the group having Gym battles. Thats never been done before and would allow for more friendly competition as well as a deeper connection with the characters.

As for what type of girl. True as to what people said we've never had a Brock like female companion, or in other words an experienced female (like Ash should be) right off the back. As for the mentor role Ash should not even need a mentor anymore by this point in the series, once again I digress. Having two competent trainers equal in status and striving together for the same goal but possibly different reasons sounds appealing to me.

Considering that the focus of Black/White is "balance" Ying/Yang male/female you'd think it would be this generation that would have this focus. But I'll see if gen 6 can pull it off, its not like its difficult to have actual balance in the show after all and many Anime have balance with male/female co stars.

 

[Moe]

As you can see by the treatment of the Pokeathlon and Musicals, the writers simply don't care for the other sidequests and give them 1-off fillers. Anything that is battle-oriented will be done by Ash, so I can't see anything ever being treated that important again.

As I mentioned in the thread about that issue, the success of Contests was by deviating a lot from the in game equivalent. A contest replacement for the anime would be an evolution of a game mechanic or even something totally unique to the anime. I agree contests themselves, unless they can thing of a radically new way to do them aren't coming back. But someone more creative than me could probably come up with a new type of battling that would make a good secondary quest for a female trainer.

My suggestion would be working with that battle mode where your Pokemon battle without commands (I've never used it and can't remember its name but I think it's a Battle Subway/Frontier thing) - a trainer who works on trying to bring out personality and ability for a Pokemon to battle on its own. It would make an interesting contrast to Ash, who focuses a lot of using encouragement in battle to change things. That would give you a non-contest side quest (chuck them in battle facilities in each anime exclusive town), constructive growth between this character and Ash. Likewise it would allow a somewhat experienced trainer to do that role. The two would fit quite well with a connoisseur so you could keep Cilan (I see Gen 6 keeping a lot of continuity with Gen 5 so don't see them scrapping the whole cast bar Ash like last time)

Agreed that the age of contest are over with. Like I mentioned in another thread I don't see whats the problem with having two people in the group having Gym battles. Thats never been done before and would allow for more friendly competition as well as a deeper connection with the characters.

Two major reasons - repetitiveness and the problem succeeding would have on the relationship. It would suck watching every Gym battle twice, and it would make it difficult to do story lines based on losing at the Gym, you'd just watch the other one battle and then see their strategy. Having it happen sporadically in DP was fine, but the battles would lose what's left of their importance if you had to work out a way to do them twice.

Succeeding is a much bigger problem. It's the reason they didn't write in the storyline that May/Dawn were travelling with Drew/Kenny - that while they could do some training together, the inevitable outcome for them was that to succeed you had to defeat the other. While for a Gym that doesn't matter, beyond the problem of deciding how to structure wins/losses, they head for a final clash in the League, and for the viewer, if you establish two strong protagonist battlers, you will disappoint half the audience with whichever result you choose.

There's two ways a character like that could go - they would be like Bianca and be clearly worse than Ash but have to have cheap wins to keep competitive (they couldn't give them mystery badges to solve that problem like they do with off screen Gyms); or they would outclass him, and make it a very one sided rivalry. If they make them exactly the same, what's the point? Either way they would be either holding the other one back or setting the viewers up for disappointment.

 

[Likeitornot.]

The only thing I'd like of a female protagonist to have is at least a tiny bit of knowledge about Pokemon (so they can learn throughout the series but they're not exactly ignorant) and a good sense of humor. Also, a pleasant dialouge.

I guess, cynically speaking, people expect them to be pretty, but also vibrant, which is a good quality, I suppose.

 

[matt0044]

Two major reasons - repetitiveness and the problem succeeding would have on the relationship. It would suck watching every Gym battle twice, and it would make it difficult to do story lines based on losing at the Gym, you'd just watch the other one battle and then see their strategy. Having it happen sporadically in DP was fine, but the battles would lose what's left of their importance if you had to work out a way to do them twice.

It would be too hard with the correct writing. The Gym Leader could use different strategies for the two matches (they are GYM LEADERS after all). Plus, Ash and his friend could do a double Gym Battle once in a while. If Ash or the other loses a match, they wait for each other, given that they're friends. Maybe even spar.

Just saying.

 

[Cybersai]

That would suck. After D/P they should have more than enough experience to pull it off but I digress.

I don't think we need another one to be honest. Before we knew about Iris I was fully expecting Hilda to be the next main girl of the series, but now in retrospect I am pretty glad she wasn't. Hilda would have likely been "just another girl trainer," who....for the third time now, would start off as a beginning trainer and go through the same motions May and Dawn did just with different pokemon and rivals. Leaving opinions about Iris' personality aside, at least she's unique and different.

My other guess is Dawn was only brought into the anime as she was running off the initial success of May and the Contests in AG, and the writers figured if they worked well the first time they can do it again with a female character with even more screentime and slightly altered Contests. By the time we got halfway into DP the Contests had lost their initial appeal due to how many of them we saw and they were getting stale as a concept. There's only so many times you can see characters do the similar type of appeals anyway.

And as proven, the DP trio's group dynamic was handled horribly, because you had two very important characters but then very unimportant Brock tagged in there, and there was no balance at all. The Hoenn group worked better because May didn't get as much screentime and you had Max and Brock to balance things out.

A female protagonist doesn't need to be a co-star to be a good character, what screwed over Misty was the bad writing of the Johto saga and the writers neglecting her character. I am hoping Iris doesn't follow suit.

 

[Caseydia]

But having Hilda would show some real maturity on the show. We know she's older and with that they would have made Ash different. Which is better than anything right now. That is if they keep her game personality that is. But if they change it to make her a mean snot like alot of the girls in BW, then no.

People were used to the girl being competitor after May and Dawn to be on some common level of Ash and now it seems that Iris might be above that more than Misty was. Maybe it might have something to do with the gym. But it would make more sense if that was the case. However, I like the trainers better than the gymleaders in the show as the main cast, it makes them seem like they have faults and they are working extra hard to fix them.

 

[CrackFox]

I always wondered that too. Exactly what do you expect from a side-kick? I expect them to be likeable and have a strong personality, anything else is too much.
It was fun at first, and I did love May's Contest arc but it got too much in DP and overshadowed the show. I'm glad they've gone back to the Misty/Brock status in BW.

 

[Moe]

But having Hilda would show some real maturity on the show. We know she's older and with that they would have made Ash different. Which is better than anything right now. That is if they keep her game personality that is. But if they change it to make her a mean snot like alot of the girls in BW, then no.

I really don't get this fascination with Hilda - she's a game character so is an entirely blank slate, and I can't remember anything out of her game dialogue that gave her a personality distinct from anyone in the past. In the games she is a starter trainer, just like May and Dawn were, and beyond being younger than Bianca and significantly younger than N, there's nothing giving her age as being more than that of the other starter trainers, which means in the Anime she's 10 like everyone else.

Why is it expected that all of the problems with Iris would be solved simply by swapping out her for Hilda? Game characters still need to have a story written for the anime, Iris in the games didn't dream of being a Dragon Master, she's already a Gym leader with a Haxorus - the storyline is developed differently.

It would be too hard with the correct writing. The Gym Leader could use different strategies for the two matches (they are GYM LEADERS after all). Plus, Ash and his friend could do a double Gym Battle once in a while. If Ash or the other loses a match, they wait for each other, given that they're friends. Maybe even spar.

Just saying.

They seem to be having enough trouble writing one Gym battle right now.

 

[FinalArcadia]

I really don't get this fascination with Hilda - she's a game character so is an entirely blank slate, and I can't remember anything out of her game dialogue that gave her a personality distinct from anyone in the past. In the games she is a starter trainer, just like May and Dawn were, and beyond being younger than Bianca and significantly younger than N, there's nothing giving her age as being more than that of the other starter trainers, which means in the Anime she's 10 like everyone else.

Why is it expected that all of the problems with Iris would be solved simply by swapping out her for Hilda?

Ah, thank you! I've been trying to figure out this obsession with Hilda for a while now, and it doesn't make sense. I honestly don't think things would be that much different if Hilda was on the show now instead of Iris. Cilan would still be taking more screen-time anyway (and rightfully so... ;P).

I just think we need female protagonists who have a clear goal and make visible progress toward that goal. At the moment, I really don't see how Iris is working toward her goal, especially considering that she has an Emolga and Excadrill, two non-Dragon Pokemon. At least we saw May and Dawn actively push for their dreams (in a more obvious way, anyway), and I think that's when the female characters are better received. I mean, wasn't May voted the best female character on a poll on this very forum? I think her visible progress as a coordinator helped her win the poll, and won her a lot of fans.

 

[Rex Kamex]

I don't think we need another one to be honest.

I'd actually prefer this since the co-star probably wouldn't be permanent. I like the format BW! has- Ash with two gym leaders (in the games).

My other guess is Dawn was only brought into the anime as she was running off the initial success of May and the Contests in AG, and the writers figured if they worked well the first time they can do it again with a female character with even more screentime and slightly altered Contests. By the time we got halfway into DP the Contests had lost their initial appeal due to how many of them we saw and they were getting stale as a concept. There's only so many times you can see characters do the similar type of appeals anyway.

We've been seeing gym battles even longer though...

And as proven, the DP trio's group dynamic was handled horribly, because you had two very important characters but then very unimportant Brock tagged in there, and there was no balance at all. The Hoenn group worked better because May didn't get as much screentime and you had Max and Brock to balance things out.

A female protagonist doesn't need to be a co-star to be a good character, what screwed over Misty was the bad writing of the Johto saga and the writers neglecting her character. I am hoping Iris doesn't follow suit.

What screwed Brock over in D&P was that they didn't give him enough to do. Just because there are two important characters doesn't mean Brock had to do so much less.

 

[matt0044]

They seem to be having enough trouble writing one Gym battle right now.

Then clearly, we need better writers.

 

[Caseydia]

I don't know what people are talking about. I never had any fasination with Hilda to begin with. In fact, I was totally against it from the beginning. It's strange in how people aren't reading of how some of these comments gets posted in the first place and who started them.