• The forums' spoiler embargo for all content from Pokémon Legends: Z-A's Mega Dimension DLC has been lifted! Feel free to talk about the new content from the expansion across the forums without the need of spoiler tabs!

    Please note that this lifted embargo only applies for the forums, and may still be in effect on other Bulbagarden sites.

What if Ash was the rival?

W

WildGamer

New Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
140
Reaction score
0
I thinking about the discussions we've had about Ash's flat rivalry in Unova and the desire (or lack of) for a new protagonist, and I wondered - what if Unova had a new protagonist and Ash was the main rival? His personality would bring a new spin on the rival dynamic and if he consistently won, it would be justified from his region experience. If Ash was the main rival (in any region, past or present) how do you think that would effect the show, its quality, and your interest in it?
 
If Ash ever gets written off, I can imagine him re-appearing for a handful of eps, (imagine similar to when Misty, May or Gary returned for brief cameos), as a Champion like figure to a new trainer.
 
I've actually attempted to write a couple of stories based on this very premise! It's quite an interesting one, really, plus it represents what I think is a pretty effective compromise, in that it could potentially allow a game protagonist to shine on their own while still letting Ash stay on as a (semi-?) regular. Plus it would also allow us to see Ash through a different lens, so to speak; characters can often seem a little different when viewed from someone else's perspective.

So if, for Unova, we were to have Hilbert as the hero and Ash as the rival, I'd totally watch that! There could be an interesting contrast between the two of them, with Hilbert being older and [somewhat] wiser, while Ash would have more battling experience in spite of being younger.
 
Hilbert? Oh gawd, is that his English name? Really? It's a damn shame.
 
...Are we seriously still doing this? God, I thought the furor over that died down ages ago. =_=; Fine, fine, Touya then, whatever-- it's the scenario that's important, not the names.
 
I honestly did not know that was his name until now. I had to check bulbapedia because I thought you were still talking about fanfics.

But yeah, hilbert? It's based of NY, not the south...

Anyway, I think that if they went down the route of ash being the rival, they could finally have him win a league.
 
WildGamer said:
I honestly did not know that was his name until now. I had to check bulbapedia because I thought you were still talking about fanfics.

But yeah, hilbert? It's based of NY, not the south...

Anyway, I think that if they went down the route of ash being the rival, they could finally have him win a league.
Click to expand...

Yeah, for better or worse, it is. I'm pretty ambivalent about it, really; I can probably think of worse names.

But, yeah, that would be a pretty interesting, if somewhat roundabout, way for Ash to finally win. How ironic that the first time he actually got what he wanted would come after he's no longer the hero of the story. xD The only thing that bothers me about the idea is that whoever the new guy is would kinda get a raw deal, being able to shine for the first time, only to lose to the previous protagonist.
 
Eh, he'd probably have a couple more generations to shine like Ash did. It would be good closure for Ash and a legitimate loss for the protag in the league.
 
Hm...touche; I see your angle. After all, it's not like Ash split the second Kanto was over with. Any new protagonist would likely stick around long enough to get his own vindication before (theoretically) passing on the torch to another. I do agree that getting Ash his much-needed closure would be pretty important. Plus losing would only strengthen the new guy's resolve, and give him a reason to try harder, not to mention provide some excellent conflict.
 
Any new hero now would probably only last till his gen ended, like May and Dawn departed at the end of their gen.

I doubt a new hero would ever last 14+ years like Ash.

They'd most likely switch out the male/female each gen for the next one.
 
Gliscor'd said:
Any new hero now would probably only last till his gen ended, like May and Dawn departed at the end of their gen.

I doubt a new hero would ever last 14+ years like Ash.

They'd most likely switch out the male/female each gen for the next one.
Click to expand...

Also a good point; Ash should really be regarded as an anomaly, at least as long as we're talking about this kind of character-switching scenario. And that last part is kinda how I wish the show had been from the start; it's not as if it would have been hard or anything, with the games providing a pair of viable new protagonists each generation. Yet another wasted opportunity on the show's part, I say...
 
General Kross said:
Also a good point; Ash should really be regarded as an anomaly, at least as long as we're talking about this kind of character-switching scenario. And that last part is kinda how I wish the show had been from the start; it's not as if it would have been hard or anything, with the games providing a pair of viable new protagonists each generation. Yet another wasted opportunity on the show's part, I say...
Click to expand...

I imagine the initial popularity of both Ash and Pikachu is why they didn't drop him after either Kanto or Johto. However now...after 14 years, the writers realize they can have any new character on the cast and it doesn't matter.

They even ignored both game protagonists this gen, something I thought would never happen.
 
Gliscor'd said:
I imagine the initial popularity of both Ash and Pikachu is why they didn't drop him after either Kanto or Johto. However now...after 14 years, the writers realize they can have any new character on the cast and it doesn't matter.

They even ignored both game protagonists this gen, something I thought would never happen.
Click to expand...

Pretty much; it was a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," at least as far as the writers were concerned. And I guess it worked well enough for me through Kanto, OI, and Johto, but around Hoenn is when it started getting ridiculous, seeing as Ash really had no earthly business being there; his game counterpart, Red, had lost relevance by that point (he was in G/S/C, so that along with the popularity factor justified his staying through Johto, at least the way I see it). As for the present, though, your mention of how the writers could potentially put anyone in the cast and still have it be successful makes me wonder why they seem unwilling to push the envelope further.

And yeah, I was pretty surprised, too, as I had been at least expecting Hilda to travel with Ash, though Hilbert staying out of the picture was considerably less surprising. Watch, we'll get some 2-second, out-of-focus shot of him or something like that in the intros to the Reshiram/Zekrom movies.
 
No ash wouldnt shine as a rival because he's too nice.
Everybody likes a stuck up and arrogant rival like gary or paul.:evil:
Not to forget the desire to see such people beaten by the hero
 
Rutvik said:
No ash wouldnt shine as a rival because he's too nice.
Everybody likes a stuck up and arrogant rival like gary or paul.:evil:
Not to forget the desire to see such people beaten by the hero
Click to expand...

I have to agree because of this very reason Ash would make a bad rival, He is just to nice.
 
Uh...no; the idea here is not that Ash would be a jerkass rival like early!Gary, Paul, or Trip; he would still be his friendly old self, except that he would simply be playing a role opposite of a new protagonist. You know, like most of the rivals in the games from R/S/E onward; Brendan/May, Wally, Barry, Cheren, and Bianca were most definitely not mean to the player, but they were still opponents to be beaten.
 
General Kross said:
Pretty much; it was a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," at least as far as the writers were concerned. And I guess it worked well enough for me through Kanto, OI, and Johto, but around Hoenn is when it started getting ridiculous, seeing as Ash really had no earthly business being there; his game counterpart, Red, had lost relevance by that point (he was in G/S/C, so that along with the popularity factor justified his staying through Johto, at least the way I see it). As for the present, though, your mention of how the writers could potentially put anyone in the cast and still have it be successful makes me wonder why they seem unwilling to push the envelope further.

And yeah, I was pretty surprised, too, as I had been at least expecting Hilda to travel with Ash, though Hilbert staying out of the picture was considerably less surprising. Watch, we'll get some 2-second, out-of-focus shot of him or something like that in the intros to the Reshiram/Zekrom movies.
Click to expand...

I assume they feel this way to now even, I mean Best Wishes/Black and White is making even more money than before. The ratings is even higher than I think the last series was. Till the show starts to sink or the games stop selling, that's when you try the crazyness. The other characters were not mascotts of the series, so its not as hard to get rid of them. Ash and Pikachu, every one to now know them. Any who, on topic I think for maybe the finale this would be a great idea, some said Max would be good for this.
 
If Ash was the rival he'd be too nice, like Zoey, who was boring. Although, I think he would be very competitive, just not insulting, like Gary and Drew and he wouldn't act cold like Paul or Trip. He'd be more like a friendly rival, like Richie maybe.
 
WildGamer said:
But yeah, hilbert? It's based of NY, not the south...
Click to expand...

You know, it's no big deal since you can name his WHATEVER name you want OTHER than Hilbert if you don't like his official name. You just see him and Hilda at the Battle Subway's Multi-Train and that's it. He/she has little to do with the games' story so no need to be whiny.

Anyways, Ash as a rival would be very interesting. To be honest, I'd make Hilda the main character and Ash a Supporting Protagonist. Throw the fans a curve ball by making a girl the main character.
 
Please note: The thread is from 15 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
Back
Top Bottom