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What if the dinosaurs never died out?

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Zeta

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I found this interesting website here:

http://www.bowdoin.edu/~dbensen/Spec/Index.html

It is a piece of speculative fiction on how evolution on earth would've continued without a mass extinction event at the end of the mesozoic. Quite entertaining, and a lot of work obviously went into it. Sadly, it only works in Internet Explorer, it's 4 years since it was last updated, and various links are starting to go dead. It's sort of like the Future is Wild only not quite that outrageous - aside from some awful puns and a couple of entries that are obviously intended to be taken as jokes, such as this species of lemur native to alternate Japan:

pikachilla.jpg
 
There was a documentary in the Horizon series about this very subject over here last week.

And it pissed me off for a full half of it by completely ignoring the fact that if Dinosaurs never died out, WE wouldn't exist.
 
Nice find; very interesting. Prehistoric life has always interested me.
 
Saint Oak said:
And it pissed me off for a full half of it by completely ignoring the fact that if Dinosaurs never died out, WE wouldn't exist.
Click to expand...

WORD.

Mammals diversified and became dominant by taking over the empty ecological niches left by the extinction of the dinosaurs. If dinosaurs had not gone extinct, they would've continued to fill those niches and thus prevented mammals from getting such evolutionary opportunity. Way, WAY too many "what if dinosaurs still existed" scenarios utterly fail to take that into account.

Thankfully, it seems the site Zeta linked to actually took that into consideration. YEY FOR GOOD SCIENCE! <3
 
We'd exist (as far as there being an "intellegent" spieces). It's just this would be what stares back at you in the mirror.
 
I wish I was a Gorn.

And if Dinosaurs existed, I'd use them for mediocre and mundane tasks.

Like the Flintstones.

I'd probably be named Rockunake also.
 
Interestingly enough, this is the first collection of "what if the dinosaurs never died out" speculative fiction/science I've ever seen that DOESN'T have an species of dinosaur evolving hands and human intelligence. I kept on expecting to see one any second, but nope.
 
Which is true. Considering how long sharks have been around (since before the dinosaurs) you'd think evolution would have made them into a super intellegent race. But instead, they're still shark. I guess what they are suits their purposes.

However, sharks are basically at the top of the food chain in the oceans. There were many dinos that had it pretty rough. I know there were theories that raptors were much more intellegent than your average dinosaur. Who knows what might have happened if evolution was allowed to take its course. Though, considering the direction of their evolution, a bird like speices would likely dominate right now.
 
The Big Al said:
However, sharks are basically at the top of the food chain in the oceans. There were many dinos that had it pretty rough. I know there were theories that raptors were much more intellegent than your average dinosaur. Who knows what might have happened if evolution was allowed to take its course. Though, considering the direction of their evolution, a bird like speices would likely dominate right now.
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There was a species of dinosaur known as the Troodon that is thought to have been the smartest dinosaur (intelligence of an opossum). Dinosauroids would have been cool.

And there are super-intelligent sharks. They're just smart enough to hide. They're out there, though. Plotting. Everyday...plotting.
 
There was a species of dinosaur known as the Troodon that is thought to have been the smartest dinosaur (intelligence of an opossum). Dinosauroids would have been cool.

And there are super-intelligent sharks. They're just smart enough to hide. They're out there, though. Plotting. Everyday...plotting.
Click to expand...

That design of the dinosauroid is flawed though, because it presumes a humanoid form is required for human-level intellect. I don't really see intelligent dinosaurs evolving into green-skinned people with reptilian eyes. If you look at most bird and bird relatives, they don't really manipulate things with their wings or forearms, but with their feet and beaks (and parrots do so rather well, actually).

Anyways, my point is a sentient dinosaur would problably end up looking like this:
http://www.nemoramjet.com/dinowhat.html

Rather than like a green-skinned grey alien.

Which is true. Considering how long sharks have been around (since before the dinosaurs) you'd think evolution would have made them into a super intellegent race. But instead, they're still shark. I guess what they are suits their purposes.
Click to expand...

Really, the best qualifications for intelligence would be:

* Omnivorous - Hunting keeps their intelligence up, and agriculture then lets them develop.
* Social - Living in social groups would of course develop the brain further and allow weaker but more intelligent young to be raised by several parents.
* Dexterous - They'd need some way of manipulating their enviroment to make tools.

Sharks haven't achieved sentience because they don't fall into any of the above. They aren't predisposed towards agriculture, they're not social animals, and they've no way of changing their enviroment or making tools.



Dolphins on the other hand - the only thing stopping them is tha they don't have hands. They only really fall into the "social" category, but they're so good at it that they're nearly our level just going by that alone. If one ever mutated into growing arms or hands, we'd be fucked.

The only thing stopping parrots is their size - their brains are slightly on the small side for birds achieving sentience, although since birds process things in a different way than mammals, they can be smaller and more efficient but still as intelligence. If you found a three-foot tall parrot species, they'd be pretty far on their way to actual intelligence.
 
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Zeta said:
That design of the dinosauroid is flawed though, because it presumes a humanoid form is required for human-level intellect. I don't really see intelligent dinosaurs evolving into green-skinned people with reptilian eyes. If you look at most bird and bird relatives, they don't really manipulate things with their wings or forearms, but with their feet and beaks (and parrots do so rather well, actually).
Click to expand...

You dare doubt that Sleestaks exist?

And in most of these cases, they're thinking of reptilian creatures capable of building vast civilizations. Hands just make that task easier.

Anyways, my point is a sentient dinosaur would problably end up looking like this:
http://www.nemoramjet.com/dinowhat.html
Click to expand...

Looks like a platypus on crack. But, frankly, I've no idea WHAT would be more likely. I stand by the Sleestaks, though. Nothing's more realistic than that.

If you found a three-foot tall parrot species, they'd be pretty far on their way to actual intelligence.
Click to expand...

I've heard that the intelligence of parrots is debatable. Mostly they just mimic sounds. Yeah, I've seen some capable of counting, but I've seen dogs and horses who can count. Yeah, they can manipulate basic tools, but I've seen dogs and bears ride unicycles. But maybe I'm forgetting something.
 
Zeta said:
Dolphins on the other hand - the only thing stopping them is tha they don't have hands. They only really fall into the "social" category, but they're so good at it that they're nearly our level just going by that alone. If one ever mutated into growing arms or hands, we'd be fucked.
Click to expand...

Dolphins do still have the capability to one day regain something much like hands. The bones of cetacean flippers are, in fact, finger-and-hand-like.
 
Actually, in studying shark behavior some have theorized they might be more intellegent than we think they are. Some speices have shown social structures and have shown capability of critical thinking. So who knows.

Another speices believed to have a high level of intellegence is the octopus. Their only problem is their short life spans. If they could live for 50-100 years both us and the dolphins would be screwed.
 
The Big Al said:
Another speices believed to have a high level of intellegence is the octopus. Their only problem is their short life spans. If they could live for 50-100 years both us and the dolphins would be screwed.
Click to expand...

Which is probably why, in that Future is Wild documentary, it had squid/octopus-like creatures as the next potential "human equivolent" species. ...God I love Discovery and Animal Planet.

But I hear octopi are good for only a year, two at max (at least in the case of females)? =\
 
Interesting! I like it, actually. And I do agree on the three qualifications if intelligence that you posted, Zeta.

If the dinosaurs never died out.... there would be a sound of thunder. *shot for the obvious Bradbury reference*
 
Fantastic find Zeta! I'll have to set aside a day and read the whole thing. I love science fiction biology so much, I think the genre needs it's own catchy name, Lols. (Bi-fi? Might give people the wrong idea.)
However, this far in the thread and there's no love shown for Dougal Dixon? His books rocked my little world in High School.
 
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