What if the games had (moral) choices?

[Pkm Trainer Lou]

I like the games and whatnot, I understand it's aimed towards children, but I feel the story in each game can be a bit... shallow/too simple. It's always about a kid who gets a rare pkm in the beginning, meets a rival, bump into a certain organization (team), dismantles it and, in the end, beats the strongest trainers on the region, with a bonus little adventure afterwards possibly appearing. It has worked for the past 20 years and, if you just want to have fun and/or don't mind, it's all well and good, but given how games are nowadays, for better or worse, will this linear type story really hold for much longer? Why not include a few significant choices here and there in the story to make the experience more unique? I'm not saying it should be like Mass Effect or Elder Scrolls, something simple, like how you treat your rival, whether or not pursuit a romance with the character you didn't choose at the beginning, if you will help just once a team or the other, a one-time-choice to take the left or right path in a route, that kinda stuff. How would you like it?

 

[Ablaze]

I would welcome this change. A little love with the rival of opp.gender sounds good. I would actually join the evil team and try to change them to the good side. Be their leader. Recruit new members and so on and so forth.

 

[smalllady]

I don't think moral choices would suit the Pokemon games. I wouldn't mind more varied dialogue choices, though (three or four choices instead of just two). It seems like they've been moving away from the simple Yes/No answers.

And romance...lol. I think Gamefreak was asked about this once in an interview and they just started laughing.

 

[Esserise]

And romance...lol. I think Gamefreak was asked about this once in an interview and they just started laughing.

... Were they laughing because they intended to include romantic elements and were trying to deflect from the interviewer cottoning onto that? Because we've had touches of (soft) romance in the games for three consecutive entries now.

 

[smalllady]

... Were they laughing because they intended to include romantic elements and were trying to deflect from the interviewer cottoning onto that? Because we've had touches of (soft) romance in the games for three consecutive entries now.

Honestly I'm not sure...I'd have to find the interview again. I think the interview was done after B2/W2 came out. I suppose you could take it that way...I know I did. But I didn't wanna rustle anyone's jimmies by suggesting it. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

EDIT: I found the interview. It was the Iwata Asks interview they did for B2/W2 (page 3):

Unno: Right. If the gameworld were a movie, anything would be possible, so I thought I could broaden the gameworld.

Iwata: What do you mean by "anything would be possible"?

Unno: Like a space fantasy that wouldn't usually be possible in the Unova region.

Iwata: Huh? A space fantasy in Pokémon? (laughs)

Unno: Or romance.

Iwata: Huh?! Romance in Pokémon?! (laughs)

I was mistaken about who was laughing. Still, take it how you will.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Absolutely not. The pokemon games should remain as they are. Also they are kids games so romance is out of the question.

 

[Esserise]

Also they are kids games so romance is out of the question.

The sheer volume of kids' media that features some degree of romance is tremendous, so I don't see why the Pokémon games being aimed at kids would preclude romance (especially when B2W2, XY, and ORAS have all already teased at it somewhat).

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

The sheer volume of kids' media that features some degree of romance is tremendous, so I don't see why the Pokémon games being aimed at kids would preclude romance (especially when B2W2, XY, and ORAS have all already teased at it somewhat).

It is wrong and immoral. Pokemon games don't need that kind of rubbish in them and I would be very ticked off if they did had it. And no, those games didn't tease anything.

 

[Pkm Trainer Lou]

It is wrong and immoral. Pokemon games don't need that kind of rubbish in them and I would be very ticked off if they did had it. And no, those games didn't tease anything.

dunno, mate... romance wrong and immoral? such strong words for a natural thing. besides, the romance i imagined was something among the lines "do you like me?", "yes", "lol, me too", TeH eNd. and maybe the games don't need it but i don't think it would hurt, au contraire, it would make the characters more human. still, i can admit it would make things too different for some people

 

[Esserise]

And no, those games didn't tease anything.

The Curtis/Yancy sidequest in B2W2 is based on dating simulator games. Additionally, the official guidebook explicitly mentions the possible emergence of a crush between Curtis/Yancy and the player, and their dialogue is very clearly in-line with that idea, as is the blush that they develop after 13 phone calls.

XY have the moment with Shauna at the Parfum Palace if you play as the male character, which was outright said by Masuda to suggest possible romantic feelings:

> Game Informer: There are hints of a romance between the player character and Shauna, especially during the fireworks scene, did this romance angle come from the fact that Paris is the city of love? Or would you like future Pokémon games to include more of a love story?

> Masuda: Yes, with France being the basis for the region, I wanted to implement some elements of romance with Shauna when playing as a boy and express a deep friendship when playing as a girl. For example, when running through the forest early in the game, Shauna will stay behind the player. We did this to express that Shauna is interested in the player. The fireworks scene also expressed Shauna and the player becoming closer to each other – going from just having met, to becoming friends, to becoming very close friends. In the future, I think I may add more romantic elements if I can do it in a fun way. However, I don't think I want to take it in a direction that shows people fighting or a relationship falling apart. Doing that would take too much of the focus off of catching Pokémon! (laughs)

And then ORAS has the Mossdeep star show at the end of the Delta Episode which, while not as outright as these other two examples, can certainly be read in the context of a budding romantic interest.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

dunno, mate... romance wrong and immoral? such strong words for a natural thing. besides, the romance i imagined was something among the lines "do you like me?", "yes", "lol, me too", TeH eNd. and maybe the games don't need it but i don't think it would hurt, au contraire, it would make the characters more human. still, i can admit it would make things too different for some people

There is nothing natural about that in the games. If they ever do such a thing then the games become less enjoyable.

The Curtis/Yancy sidequest in B2W2 is based on dating simulator games. Additionally, the official guidebook explicitly mentions the possible emergence of a crush between Curtis/Yancy and the player, and their dialogue is very clearly in-line with that idea, as is the blush that they develop after 13 phone calls.

XY have the moment with Shauna at the Parfum Palace if you play as the male character, which was outright said by Masuda to suggest possible romantic feelings:

> Game Informer: There are hints of a romance between the player character and Shauna, especially during the fireworks scene, did this romance angle come from the fact that Paris is the city of love? Or would you like future Pokémon games to include more of a love story?

> Masuda: Yes, with France being the basis for the region, I wanted to implement some elements of romance with Shauna when playing as a boy and express a deep friendship when playing as a girl. For example, when running through the forest early in the game, Shauna will stay behind the player. We did this to express that Shauna is interested in the player. The fireworks scene also expressed Shauna and the player becoming closer to each other – going from just having met, to becoming friends, to becoming very close friends. In the future, I think I may add more romantic elements if I can do it in a fun way. However, I don't think I want to take it in a direction that shows people fighting or a relationship falling apart. Doing that would take too much of the focus off of catching Pokémon! (laughs)

And then ORAS has the Mossdeep star show at the end of the Delta Episode which, while not as outright as these other two examples, can certainly be read in the context of a budding romantic interest.

B2W2, XY and ORAS are irrelevant as romance is not canon to the games or anime. Those are not teases.

 

[Esserise]

B2W2, XY and ORAS are irrelevant as romance is not canon to the games or anime. Those are not teases.

Alright, there is clearly no point in continuing this conversation if you are going to ignore Junichi Masuda literally saying point-blank that there were romantic elements in XY and that he is open to the idea of including more in future games.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Alright, there is clearly no point in continuing this conversation if you are going to ignore Junichi Masuda literally saying point-blank that there were romantic elements in XY and that he is open to the idea of including more in future games.

Even if that is true, it would be a flaw of the games for me since romance should stay in the real world. If they are going to turn the games into some kind of romance rubbish games then count me out. This is kid games and it should remain that way.

 

[Arcalargo]

Personally, I would love for the games to add some moral choices into them. The real world is rarely ever a clear cut good vs evil and it wouldn't hurt to have that added into the games. Keep in mind that these games ARE aimed at the young adult/teen market, so showing them that actions have consequences really isn't a bad thing. Because lets be honest, killing everyone that isn't in Team Flare isn't kiddy stuff.

Heck, lets have a game with two watered down opposing teams and your player has to chose which one to follow/be a part of. Pick the wrong one and you'll have to do some unpleasant or dangerous things. Actions cause reactions, this is life and won't hurt to be in the Pokémon games.

 

[dragon_nataku]

I can't remember what game it was (might have been more than one, really) where I was like "uuuggghhh these morals are so cut-and-dry and super-simplistic" and then I remembered, yeah, game for children, just roll with it. So while I would like it if they put more things in there that would make you think a little more rather than "yep they are 100% evil THE END" I also understand why they didn't.

Also, as an old person whose peers have like 10-13 year old kids by now, I'm really disturbed by the idea of a 6-10 year old being exposed to engaging in a romantic relationship in a video game. Kids are already growing up way too fast, getting pregnant in middle/high school and whatnot, I really don't think we need this stuff in games for children. People who want that sort of thing should go play a dating sim (or, I don't know, get a date IRL ffs). I remember when I got to the thing with Shauna in X (I tend to play as a guy char than girl char) I was like, ...... ^<_______<^ is this what I think it is.....? But if it was something like that, then sure that's fine. Something more involved, unless done in a very superficial way, would just be disturbing. I certainly wouldn't want my six-year old child coming to me being like "LOOK MOMMY I HAVE A GIRLFRIEND IN A GAME NOW" or whatever.

 

[smalllady]

And there it is...jimmies: rustled.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think having moral choices in a Pokemon game might be a bit much. It's not a bad idea, but I think it might not really fit well with the tone of the games and the demographic. It might depend on the moral choices involved, but I'm just not sure if it would work. Maybe just having more dialogue options instead of Yes/No responses would be good. I know that the playable characters are supposed to be avatars for the players, but having more dialogue options would help to imagine more personality in them. Some cut scenes showing them interacting with other characters would be kind of neat too.

As for romance, I'm not against it. I certainly don't think it's wrong or immoral. That's just an extreme overreaction if I've ever seen one. And I don't think it would cause kids to grow up faster, or at least not any more than a ton of other media exposure would have one them. I'm not talking about turning the journey into a full on dating simulation game, but some little scene or interactions that could easily be interrupted as romantic without going full on romantic couple would be fine. I liked how the Delta Episode ending handled this concept. It was pretty clear that the rival character had a crush on the player character after all of their adventures, but they don't flat out say this in the game. The crush and the rival being nervous about expressing their feelings was kind of sweet and endearing to me. The characters are still kids and the target audience is still kids too, so I'm not saying that they should start having canon couples in the games. Just that little moments and interactions that could be interpreted as romantic in themselves sound like it could be fine. It all just depends on the execution and if the scenes in X/Y and OR/AS are any indication, I think that the idea could work.

 

[Esserise]

I think having moral choices in a Pokemon game might be a bit much. It's not a bad idea, but I think it might not really fit well with the tone of the games and the demographic. It might depend on the moral choices involved, but I'm just not sure if it would work. Maybe just having more dialogue options instead of Yes/No responses would be good. I know that the playable characters are supposed to be avatars for the players, but having more dialogue options would help to imagine more personality in them. Some cut scenes showing them interacting with other characters would be kind of neat too.

As for romance, I'm not against it. I certainly don't think it's wrong or immoral. That's just an extreme overreaction if I've ever seen one. And I don't think it would cause kids to grow up faster, or at least not any more than a ton of other media exposure would have one them. I'm not talking about turning the journey into a full on dating simulation game, but some little scene or interactions that could easily be interrupted as romantic without going full on romantic couple would be fine. I liked how the Delta Episode ending handled this concept. It was pretty clear that the rival character had a crush on the player character after all of their adventures, but they don't flat out say this in the game. The crush and the rival being nervous about expressing their feelings was kind of sweet and endearing to me. The characters are still kids and the target audience is still kids too, so I'm not saying that they should start having canon couples in the games. Just that little moments and interactions that could be interpreted as romantic in themselves sound like it could be fine. It all just depends on the execution and if the scenes in X/Y and OR/AS are any indication, I think that the idea could work.

This sums up my feelings almost exactly. On the subject of moral choices, I think they are a fine idea in itself and are really good for certain games, but it's not really something that fits this series. And it seems as though a common interpretation of the concept is having our character get involved with the villain team, which is an idea that I am not very fond of. Having our character steal from or rough somebody up in order to "play along" with the team? Now that seems "wrong" to me. I understand the desire to teach players about consequence, and again, that is a reasonable idea on paper, but I don't think simulated crime is in any way an appropriate avenue for exploring it in these games.

Having more varied responses in general though would be quite welcome.

As for romance, kids who are 10-13 are nearing that age where romance is starting to become an active thing on their minds, and I think it is good for media to show them a healthy way of approaching it, and to show that it's a natural, human thing, not something embarrassing or something to be shunned. I'm not advocating that they like, replace the Pokémon League with Prom Night, or anything, but I think the little teases and suggestions are fine.

 

[Pkm Trainer Lou]

I can't remember what game it was (might have been more than one, really) where I was like "uuuggghhh these morals are so cut-and-dry and super-simplistic" and then I remembered, yeah, game for children, just roll with it. So while I would like it if they put more things in there that would make you think a little more rather than "yep they are 100% evil THE END" I also understand why they didn't.

Also, as an old person whose peers have like 10-13 year old kids by now, I'm really disturbed by the idea of a 6-10 year old being exposed to engaging in a romantic relationship in a video game. Kids are already growing up way too fast, getting pregnant in middle/high school and whatnot, I really don't think we need this stuff in games for children. People who want that sort of thing should go play a dating sim (or, I don't know, get a date IRL ffs). I remember when I got to the thing with Shauna in X (I tend to play as a guy char than girl char) I was like, ...... ^<_______<^ is this what I think it is.....? But if it was something like that, then sure that's fine. Something more involved, unless done in a very superficial way, would just be disturbing. I certainly wouldn't want my six-year old child coming to me being like "LOOK MOMMY I HAVE A GIRLFRIEND IN A GAME NOW" or whatever.

well, yeah, i never really thought the romance in a pkm being any different from a confession and blushing. it's supposed to be something innocent and just a more human element to the whole thing

This sums up my feelings almost exactly. On the subject of moral choices, I think they are a fine idea in itself and are really good for certain games, but it's not really something that fits this series. And it seems as though a common interpretation of the concept is having our character get involved with the villain team, which is an idea that I am not very fond of. Having our character steal from or rough somebody up in order to "play along" with the team? Now that seems "wrong" to me. I understand the desire to teach players about consequence, and again, that is a reasonable idea on paper, but I don't think simulated crime is in any way an appropriate avenue for exploring it in these games.

Having more varied responses in general though would be quite welcome.

As for romance, kids who are 10-13 are nearing that age where romance is starting to become an active thing on their minds, and I think it is good for media to show them a healthy way of approaching it, and to show that it's a natural, human thing, not something embarrassing or something to be shunned. I'm not advocating that they like, replace the Pokémon League with Prom Night, or anything, but I think the little teases and suggestions are fine.

considering the examples in my original post, "moral" wouldn't be wouldn't exactly be quite the case, still a mild moral choice is still something. in the end, what i think the real is issue is how simplistic the dialog and story really are, even if the target audience isn't exactly known for appreciating a deep, though-provoking plot, but aren't we underestimating the younglings a little bit?

 

[Esserise]

considering the examples in my original post, "moral" wouldn't be wouldn't exactly be quite the case, still a mild moral choice is still something. in the end, what i think the real is issue is how simplistic the dialog and story really are, even if the target audience isn't exactly known for appreciating a deep, though-provoking plot, but aren't we underestimating the younglings a little bit?

You know, there was one moment in ORAS that was vaguely similar to what you suggest; on an early route, you have the option to loan a Potion to a young Trainer in need. I don't think it affects anything whether you give them one or not, but if it did, then I could get on-board with the idea if it were along those lines, or about how you respond to your rivals and so on.

I'm not one to underestimate kids; I think too many people already make that mistake. But I don't know, I guess I just haven't felt that (since Gen V, anyway) Pokémon has been significantly lacking in that area. No, the stories aren't especially deep or very morally gray or anything, but I don't think I've ever thought they needed to be. For example, N, Lysandre, and Archie/Maxie in the remakes may all clearly be villains doing bad things, but the games still provide room for audience sympathy and treat their opinions with respect despite their intentions being extreme. Which, keeping in mind that the games are for kids, is something about their storytelling that I appreciate.

That being said, I do feel that there is room for the player to have more personal impact on the central storyline. As it is, their plots do tend to railroad you to a predestined point - but since it is an RPG, and we can already influence so much else to make the adventure our own, like which Pokémon we use and what clothes our characters wear, giving us more control over the direction of the story itself would be a welcome change.