What is the "liberal agenda"?

[Roses Ablaze]

Seriously, if I have an agenda, I think I ought to know about it.

 

[The Big Al]

Equality, Peace, Prosperity. I think that's the Liberal Agenda.

 

[Mozz]

Big government, forced equality and peace through diplomacy.

 

[Fig]

As opposed to the present government's agenda, which is :

BIGGER government, forced freedom and peace through war.

But since they promise tax cuts (to the 1% richest, but they don't say THAT one too loudly) and wave the bible around, people vote for them anyway.

 

[Mozz]

As opposed to the present government's agenda, which is :

BIGGER government, forced freedom and peace through war.

But since they promise tax cuts (to the 1% richest, but they don't say THAT one too loudly) and wave the bible around, people vote for them anyway.

I never said the current Republicans weren't liberal

Tax cuts for the "wealthy" is a good economic strategy, but it's much better to stifle growth so the poor lazy slobs have more food stamps

 

[Zeta]

Tax cuts for the "wealthy" is a good economic strategy, but it's much better to stifle growth so the poor lazy slobs have more food stamps

How horrible. It'd be a lot better to let a bunch of people starve in favor of a billionare being able to buy his fifth summer house.

 

[Dagoth Ur]

Tax cuts for the "wealthy" is a good economic strategy, but it's much better to stifle growth so the poor lazy slobs have more food stamps

I've never understood that. Please explain.

 

[The Big Al]

History shows
Raise Taxes (in moderation) and the economy prospers.
Cut Taxes and the economy tanks.

I'd rather take the slightly higher taxes. I'd likely be making more money because the economy would be better.

 

[Mozz]

If you think that higher taxes are good for the economy, you should smack your economics teacher in the head. If you think that higher taxes are good because poor people deserve money, then you can send a little more when and IF you pay taxes =P

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261.html

Print this. Study this. Live it. Love it.

The moral argument for higher taxes is completely seperate from the economic argument. I will intellectually respect people who think the rich should give more BECAUSE the poor need more money, I will not respect those who believe the economy will be better off.

 

[ChaosRocket]

I never said the current Republicans weren't liberal

Tax cuts for the "wealthy" is a good economic strategy, but it's much better to stifle growth so the poor lazy slobs have more food stamps

Whatever, you know you love paying for my food stamps.

What we learned was that tax cuts for the rich make a larger amount of wealth overall, but it increases the disprity between the rich and the poor. Like, the country as a whole will have more money, but over time, the poor will control a smaller and smaller percentage of that wealth.

 

[The Dude]

Here's the liberal agenda spoken by moi, a true liberal: Protect the environment before it turns to sludge, equal rights as much as possible within the limits of sanity, compassion for those who are suffering, disarmament, skepticism of corporations, defending the people from attacks upon their civil liberties, respecting the United Nations, working towards a harmonious world where killing and bigotry and greed are never justified.

peace through diplomacy.

Isn't peace through diplomacy a good idea? What's wrong with diplomacy besides the fact that it means no military spending. Speaking of military spending, we still spend enormous amounts of money maintaining a nuclear arsenal we have no use for. No country, sane or not, would provoke a nuclear war.

 

[The Big Al]

History shows tax cuts tank the economy in the long runbecause so very few times does the government cut spending to make up for the lost funds.

The government actually balancing its budget is the best thing for a national economy. We don't need massive taxes but the government has to pay itself. Without taxes, there would be no fire fighters, police officers, the public school system would be non-existant, the roads would be terrible. Look at my state Michigan to see what lower taxes do.

FYI my family took a 50% pay cut in 2001 when Bush cut taxes. Many of the middle class are in the same boat. So the stupid refund check we got in the mail wasn't worth it.

 

[Roses Ablaze]

Hrm...not that I'm for attacking every country that pisses us off, but diplomacy doesn't always work.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mozz]

History shows tax cuts tank the economy in the long runbecause so very few times does the government cut spending to make up for the lost funds.

Have you ever seen statistics showing how Reagan reducing the marginal rates actually increased the money brought in from taxes?

The government actually balancing its budget is the best thing for a national economy. We don't need massive taxes but the government has to pay itself. Without taxes, there would be no fire fighters, police officers, the public school system would be non-existant, the roads would be terrible. Look at my state Michigan to see what lower taxes do.

A balanced budget isn't a bad goal, but there are a lot of ways states should cut spending, but corruption and pandering stand in the way.

FYI my family took a 50% pay cut in 2001 when Bush cut taxes. Many of the middle class are in the same boat. So the stupid refund check we got in the mail wasn't worth it.

Is this all you have to rebut it? What does your family do for a living? How did cutting taxes hurt your family? How did cutting taxes hurt so many in the middle class? What do you consider the "middle class"?

I need to talk to Arcy about adding a Paypal link at the top. All money collected will go towards paying for economics textbooks for you guys

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Speaking of military spending, we still spend enormous amounts of money maintaining a nuclear arsenal we have no use for. No country, sane or not, would provoke a nuclear war.

Exactly, that's WHY we keep them maintained. I don't like it either, but at this point in time, nuclear weapons are more of a deterrant against OTHER countries using nuclear weapons.

 

[FabuVinny]

That has been the case for decades. We haven't had any nuclear bombs dropped since the end of WWII, but we still got the Cold War...

 

[The Big Al]

I need to talk to Arcy about adding a Paypal link at the top. All money collected will go towards paying for economics textbooks for you guys

I did take economics and my economics teacher who was as right as you. He still believe tax cuts were bad for the economy because in the long run they wind up stiffling the economy. The only benefits are short term and that's why Regean saw economic growth.

 

[Mozz]

I did take economics and my economics teacher who was as right as you. He still believe tax cuts were bad for the economy because in the long run they wind up stiffling the economy. The only benefits are short term and that's why Regean saw economic growth.

Do you have any theoretical evidence of this? Can you show that the "stiffling" of the economy outweighs the elimination of the deadweight loss of taxation plus the increase in tax revenue?

 

[Archaic]

Have you ever seen statistics showing how Reagan reducing the marginal rates actually increased the money brought in from taxes?

Got to love fringe benifits like this. For those of you wondering how this is possible, essentially, the extra money comes from people, businesses, etc who were previously hiding their full income to avoid taxation (negative gearing, cayman islands accounts, etc), but who now don't find the benifits of this behaviour being worth the effort they have to make to do it.

So yes, higher taxes should have higher returns for the government...but because humans are sneaky bastards who are always on the lookout for #1, no matter how hard we try to deny it, it won't always work that way.

 

[Mozz]

Got to love fringe benifits like this. For those of you wondering how this is possible, essentially, the extra money comes from people, businesses, etc who were previously hiding their full income to avoid taxation (negative gearing, cayman islands accounts, etc), but who now don't find the benifits of this behaviour being worth the effort they have to make to do it.

So yes, higher taxes should have higher returns for the government...but because humans are sneaky bastards who are always on the lookout for #1, no matter how hard we try to deny it, it won't always work that way.

Moreover, lower taxes = more businesses = more taxes brought in.