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What things do you like about the most criticized sagas (Johto, BW and JN)?

MiH

MiH

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Johto saga had the infamous fillers, Black & White had many things going wrong according to many people, and Journeys is an equally controversial series as well. But let's think positive: what are the things that you like about these three sagas? What did they do well in your opinion?
 
Black and White is still my least favourite series but I do think the second season Rival Destinies is the best of the bunch. It's still got some pretty dire stuff but there's also a lot of things that make it more entertaining than the other two seasons such as the return of Dawn, the Don George battle stuff being good and also the Meloetta stuff going on.

Journeys of course had Ash vs Leon which felt like a victory lap for having to put up with the show, Ash vs Volkner my favourite of the WCS battles and I'd say Alola was the best handled of the region visits (especially for wrapping up Lillie's whole storyline with her father and for the second visit which basically doubles as an extra grand finale for S&M) which is amusing since there were only three episodes where Ash went there.
 
I’m watching Johto right now, about halfway through and its reputation for being boring feels really unearned. Of course context is everything, and we’re watching as 2 adults enjoying a silly kids’ show and not too bothered about Satoshi’s progress or lack thereof… Still, there have been very few episodes we have not been entertained by. It helps that the TRio are hilarious and indispensable.

Best thing about BW was the Rocket radio show. (Yeah ok I haven’t actually watched the series lol but I’ll get back to you if I feel otherwise when I do.)

Best thing about PM19 was the amount of physical contact Musashi and Kojiro made, although I’d have traded that in a heartbeat for more screen time and soul…
 
JN's PWC battles are better than people give them credit for. The only really bad ones was Drasna and to a lesser extent Bea Round 3. While it's true his JN team lacks the on-screen training most previous teams have, the actual battles are written well and don't have any different flaws than past series battles. People were very bias when JN was airing, because if you go back and watch any of the older 6 on 6's, or Gyms, Frontier Brains, etc. even from AG, DP or XY, every single one of those battles has the same inconsistencies and flaws people complained about in JN.

Volkner, Visquez and Marnie were the 3 best battles prior to the M8. But also Raihan, Bea 1 and 2, Pikachu vs Meganium, Korrina, the two Farfetch'd battles against Rinto, etc. were all good and solid battles on their own.

Also the raid legendary battles against Lugia, Articuno, Mewtwo, Heatran, Golurk, etc. were very good too. The Moltres one is tainted by Infernape's poor handling, but from the Gary side it's good.

Also if you remove the nostalgia, every older series battle has a lot of the same problems with the wrong move working, Ash's pokemon taking too much damage, or whatever.
 
What I liked most about Johto besides obviously the Johto League was Ash still using some of his Kanto pokémon before he decided to fully go with the usual formula of starting over from scratch with a new team, there's also a COTD episode that I liked (Wired for Battle). I headcanon that as one of the prototypes to the Paul character.

What I liked most about BW were the mini tournaments (Club Battle/Clubsplosion/Junior Cup) and then the return of Ash's Charizard even though I thought his return was wasted and could've been used to help Ash at the Unova League or battle that Reshiram that was shown in the opening.

I liked the idea of the World Coronation Series, it was different from what I was used to from previous series but it never delved into crazy stuff like having Ash attend a school like he did in SM which I found to be a huge turnoff for me. I watched the series for the battles and that's what JN offered. There's people that say Ash vs Leon is the best battle ever, I strongly disagree. I'll go as far as to say that the battle between Ash and Cynthia impressed me more, it had elements that reminded me of Ash and Paul's full battles at Lake Acuity and the Sinnoh League.
 
Johto
  • Almost everything about Master Quest. Deep and intriguing arcs like Larvitar's or the Whirl Islands, character-focused fillers, a league that has aged well, cool gym battles and evil team arcs.
  • Kanto-like comedy and worldbuilding still pop up from time to time.

Best Wishes
  • Decent protagonist trio that had good chemistry with each other as well as well-executed roles within the team.
  • Great secondary cast with Bianca, Burgundy, Georgia and Stephan that added a lot of comedy and interactions with the main cast.
  • Giving TR a break was a nice decision as it allowed regular episodes to have more natural conflicts and it was more special when they appeared.
  • Episode N, barring the last episode I think it's a cool arc with interesting drama.
  • Main cast Pokemon having strong personalities and relationships to other Pokemon within the cast. They felt like fully-realized characters independent from their trainers.

Journeys
  • Marshtomp got focus twice!
  • Goh was relatable in many ways and a good counterpart to Ash.
  • Experimentation that allowed stories independent from Ash to be featured like the ones about Chloe's family, Ren and Chryssa's backstories, the conclusion of Lillie's story, etc.
  • Continuity, watching all those characters was a blast, especially ones that used to be main characters and finding out how they've changed.
  • Ash's goal receiving the focus it deserved towards the end, a worldwide tournament was the most logical way to show he was indeed the best in the world and he got to face many fan-favorite characters during his run.
 
Johto: Bayleef is one of my favorite Ashmons and I like the rest of the Johto mons as well, Master Quest was genuinely really good (having a bad start but a great ending is imo better than the inverse), and Pokemon battles themselves were finally starting to get interesting.

BW: I actually like the personalities of most of Ash's Unova Pokemon (which does make it that much more of a shame that most of them ended up having pretty awful battle performances accross the board... this team genuinely deserved so much better and I will die on that hill), the depiction of Focus Blast is one of the funniest and realest things the anime has ever done, and I really liked the metallic effect they gave to Steel-type attacks and wish it had stuck around.

Journeys: Ash vs Leon is one of the best battles in the whole series, the way Lillie's storyline was wrapped up was amazing, and the conclusion to Ash's tenure actually managed to stick the landing quite well despite all the cons it had going against it (Journeys had a lot of production problems, many of them COVID-related)
 
Johto: I liked the pokemon league, it was a step up from Kanto.

BW: There are many episodes that are really good as standalones and not as a continuation of previous sagas. The episodes involving N, Anthea and Concordia are some of my favorites, their point of view was interesting and it was nice to see them clashing with others over different philosophies.

Journeys: Leon vs Ash was a good battle.
 
(Haven't seen enough of BW or Journeys.)

Johto:

I liked that it felt connected to the previous series, other series feel disconnected from their predecessors in several ways (understandably so considering how many episodes there are but still).

The personalities of most of his Pokemon.

The league.

More mini arcs, even if they were hit and miss (Whirl Cup is a miss).

Team Rocket still has some depth and humor.
 
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