What's better Levitate, Magnet Rise or Flying Type? Should there be a new entry hazard for those?

[Matleo]

-You have 4 votes.

- lame that Telekinesis cant be used on your self to rise you in the air.

-Should there be a new entry hazard for flying, levitating , pokemon under telekinesis and magnet rise ?
But what type? ice (frozen cloud)? fairy(pixie dust)? poison(gas cloud)? or maybe more then one?

-We have some Gravitate users , Take Down , Stealthrock, Gust and moves that double damage when the oponent is flying or floating, but is it enough?

-should it work on all or only on those who levitate, magnet rise or are under telekinesis?

- or should hail and sandstorm do more damage to users that fly or float then those on the ground?

- should sound moves hurt them more then other?

 

[Harryghost]

The Flying type is undoubtedly better of the three, considering there are very few means to rid someone of their Flying-type as opposed to Levitate, and Magnet Rise is effective for only five turns before its effect disappears.

When it comes to new entry hazards for the Flying type, I don't see it as necessary. The Flying types suffer already from Stealth Rock; they are not affected by Terrains when their effects might be helpful for them; creating a new entry hazard that just targets them would be too much in my opinion. Not that I hate the idea, though; it just seems so unnecessary to me.

- lame that Telekinesis cant be used on your self to rise you in the air.

Well, that would kinda defeat the purpose of Telekinesis, as it would just be another Magnet Rise.

- or should hail and sandstorm do more damage to users that fly or float then those on the ground?

Conceptually, the snow and sand affect the flying Pokémon just as much as they do to the grounded ones; there's no reason I can think of conceptually, for them to do more damage to Flying-type Pokémon.

- should sound moves hurt them more then other?

?

 

[BigBadButterfree]

- lame that Telekinesis cant be used on your self to rise you in the air.

I don't know why you'd want to do this. Telekinesis has a hindering component, you know.

 

[Matleo]

new entry hazard that just targets them would be too much in my opinion. Not that I hate the idea, though; it just seems so unnecessary to me

doesnt need to be damage, could be a speed reduction, or sp.attack and attacks reduction or make them move last for 3 turns.

I don't know why you'd want to do this. Telekinesis has a hindering component, you know.

yes, but on the other hand why should a pokemon learn both magnet rise and telekinesis and waste a move slot?
if musharna, if psychic types would be immune to the hindering component then it could have a free move slot.
And could really float.

Well, that would kinda defeat the purpose of Telekinesis, as it would just be another Magnet Rise.

not if would work like "magnet rise" on the user and like "telekinesis" on the oponent, in double battles and in single ones that would actually help. Think of it Musharna has no acces to magnet rise or no posibility of having Levitate.
This way it could get a new way to use.

?

sound waves are now known since some time to make things levitate, aka they should do more damage to things that already are in the air or float.
if a pokemon is on the ground the sound waves are a little grounded similar like electric attacks to ground type.

- Like birds don't like the very loud noise of a plane's engine?
(Ultrasonic frequencies are used to confuse, disorient and intimidate birds within range. Pest birds are not harmed by ultrasound, but they do “feel the pressure” of the high-frequency sound waves from these electronic bird deterrents.
-this rather could be a new ability)

 

[Harryghost]

doesnt need to be damage, could be a speed reduction, or sp.attack and attacks reduction or make them move last for 3 turns.

That's just what I meant by target, though. Targeting does not mean only damage in Pokémon.

yes, but on the other hand why should a pokemon learn both magnet rise and telekinesis and waste a move slot?
if musharna, if psychic types would be immune to the hindering component then it could have a free move slot.
And could really float.

It's not a wasted move slot if the move in question can be put to some good use.

not if would work like "magnet rise" on the user and like "telekinesis" on the oponent, in double battles and in single ones that would actually help. Think of it Musharna has no acces to magnet rise or no posibility of having Levitate.
This way it could get a new way to use.

Telekinesis is a Psychic-type move, while Magnet Rise is an Electric type. I think this explains why Musharna can learn the former move, but not the latter.

(Ultrasonic frequencies are used to confuse, disorient and intimidate birds within range. Pest birds are not harmed by ultrasound, but they do “feel the pressure” of the high-frequency sound waves from these electronic bird deterrents.
-this rather could be a new ability)

Honestly, this does sound cool to me.

 

[BigBadButterfree]

- Like birds don't like the very loud noise of a plane's engine?
(Ultrasonic frequencies are used to confuse, disorient and intimidate birds within range. Pest birds are not harmed by ultrasound, but they do “feel the pressure” of the high-frequency sound waves from these electronic bird deterrents.
-this rather could be a new ability)

To be fair, I don't think anything with ears likes the loud noise of a plane's engine. That would be like saying grass is weak to fire because plants don't like fire. Nobody likes fire. It burns. It just so happens that plants are more susceptible to burning.

I just think generalizing something like this is too... general, for lack of a better word. Like yeah, some flying or levitating Pokémon could theoretically be more susceptible to harsh noise than others. But some that levitate just wouldn't make sense. If anything something like a magnemite that has used magnet rise should be resistant to sound because of the EMPs it's giving off or something. It's too much of a case-by-case basis that I don't think sound can work as a mechanic in that way.


Now, something I think would be interesting (but not make too much sense) would be a move or ability that plays on the term noise pollution. Have the move (or sound moves used by pkmn with ability) poison the foe. Could be interesting? That could certainly help poison substallers.

*DISCLAIMER* I do not play competitively and have no idea what I am saying in that regard

 

[Matleo]

I just think generalizing something like this is too... general, for lack of a better word. Like yeah, some flying or levitating Pokémon could theoretically be more susceptible to harsh noise than others. But some that levitate just wouldn't make sense. If anything something like a magnemite that has used magnet rise should be resistant to sound because of the EMPs it's giving off or something. It's too much of a case-by-case basis that I don't think sound can work as a mechanic in that way.

Theoretically a flying type with Soundproof would make then more sense if you think about it.
We dont say that both levitate and soundproof need the same treatment, but taking that flying even in dual typing can have 2 immunities, but Levitate users can have 4 potentially that should also count.

This would allow all sound moves to get to be a little more important.

Now, something I think would be interesting (but not make too much sense) would be a move or ability that plays on the term noise pollution. Have the move (or sound moves used by pkmn with ability) poison the foe. Could be interesting? That could certainly help poison substallers.

I thought about something similar to "investation" but a sound steel type version, but a poison type version that poisons could also work. But I would rather that it shouldnt trap the foe, rather be like hail and allow you and oponent to switch out pokemon.

 

[Stratelier]

-Should there be a new entry hazard for flying, levitating , pokemon under telekinesis and magnet rise ?

Wait, what? We already have Stealth Rock and it's broken as -- I mean, don't get me wrong it's nice sometimes to have an entry hazard that works on Flying types, but the fact that it does to them what would otherwise require three layers of Spikes (not to mention including Bugs and Fire types in the wreckage) is still broken. Granted, a fast Flyer (if it gets a clean switch-in) can usually just Roost off the damage, but....

Also, keep in mind that Magnet Rise is a move (not an ability) so you were already hit with the entry hazard even before you get a chance to use it. The only way it could potentially bypass an entry hazard is via Baton Pass.

 

[Matleo]

require three layers of Spikes (not to mention including Bugs and Fire types in the wreckage) is still broken. Granted, a fast Flyer (if it gets a clean switch-in) can usually just Roost off the damage, but....

yes, but how many damage should Stealth Rocks do? like 2 layers? to not nerf it too much.
Or should some types be immune to it? like rock itself?

Good that we have Magic Bounce (why does Delibird not get that instead of one of its 2 non sleeping abilities).

Should theoretically that Overcoat ability not protect pokemon too from it ?
if hail and sandstorm why not stealth rocks?
the same goes for Bulletproof, I think stealth is related to missiles and bullets+ they could make some abilities like Shell Armor, Shield Dust, Snoaw Cloak, Sticky Hold(should assimilate them and activate by contact on the foe), Rock Head, Battle Armor, Magma Armor(should melt them) , Sand Veil, Clear Body, Run Away (avoid entry hazrds on the field with fast running), Leaf Guard also protect the users from stealth rocks or reduce that damage as a additional effect, that could solve the problem.

Dark types are immune to Prankster why not to stealth rocks and entry hazards? its some kind of prank if rocks are thrown your way when you are send on to the field, it's dirty. Especially if a prankster user would set them up. Or they could make them take less damage from entry hazards.


If Stealth Rocks is a move that activates when a pokemon enters battles , how doeas it knows that if the user is levitating or flying? its a form of magnetism , heat sensoring, or what? should theoretically electric or steel be immune to them? what else does not have a magnetic field, or very little that could block them? ice? bug?
Maybe make that on electric terrain stealth rocks could hit pokemon on both sides, oponents and users?
Theoretically when psychic terrain is activated they shouldnt activate due to priority when something is switching in and out? Toxic spikes should not work on mystic terrain theoretically till it works.

This are only thoughts and suggestions.

Ok can maybe better make Levitate users fear the sound moves 2x... then maybe Gengar could get it back as secondary.
if only Gravity could harm something that falls down without forewarn.

 

[Harryghost]

yes, but how many damage should Stealth Rocks do? like 2 layers? to not nerf it too much.
Or should some types be immune to it? like rock itself?

Good that we have Magic Bounce (why does Delibird not get that instead of one of its 2 non sleeping abilities).

Should theoretically that Overcoat ability not protect pokemon too from it ?
if hail and sandstorm why not stealth rocks?
the same goes for Bulletproof, I think stealth is related to missiles and bullets+ they could make some abilities like Shell Armor, Shield Dust, Snoaw Cloak, Sticky Hold(should assimilate them and activate by contact on the foe), Rock Head, Battle Armor, Magma Armor(should melt them) , Sand Veil, Clear Body, Run Away (avoid entry hazrds on the field with fast running), Leaf Guard also protect the users from stealth rocks or reduce that damage as a additional effect, that could solve the problem.

Dark types are immune to Prankster why not to stealth rocks and entry hazards? its some kind of prank if rocks are thrown your way when you are send on to the field, it's dirty. Especially if a prankster user would set them up. Or they could make them take less damage from entry hazards.


If Stealth Rocks is a move that activates when a pokemon enters battles , how doeas it knows that if the user is levitating or flying? its a form of magnetism , heat sensoring, or what? should theoretically electric or steel be immune to them? what else does not have a magnetic field, or very little that could block them? ice? bug?
Maybe make that on electric terrain stealth rocks could hit pokemon on both sides, oponents and users?
Theoretically when psychic terrain is activated they shouldnt activate due to priority when something is switching in and out? Toxic spikes should not work on mystic terrain theoretically till it works.

This are only thoughts and suggestions.

Ok can maybe better make Levitate users fear the sound moves 2x... then maybe Gengar could get it back as secondary.
if only Gravity could harm something that falls down without forewarn.

1. I believe it can be explained from how a thick coat/jacket can protect your body from things like sand and snow, but not from stones and rocks.
2. I am pretty sure the anime depicts the move to activate whenever a Pokémon steps on or near the area where the rocks were set, which flying Pokémon do not do.
3. I am sure Toxic Spikes, though still usable in Misty Terrain, fail to poison any Pokémon till the mist disappears from the battlefield.

 

[Matleo]

• I believe it can be explained from how a thick coat/jacket can protect your body from things like sand and snow, but not from stones and rocks.

• I am pretty sure the anime depicts the move to activate whenever a Pokémon steps on or near the area where the rocks were set, which flying Pokémon do not do.

• I am sure Toxic Spikes, though still usable in Misty Terrain, fail to poison any Pokémon till the mist disappears from the battlefield.

- then what about armors? or liquid bodies of sticky hoold users? snow ? for me hail and rocks are the same if something protects from hail then stealth rocks also should be included. Not that many pokemon have overcoat. (mandibuzz)

-anime??? this are the games.

Spoiler

Stealth Rock sets an entry hazard around the target Pokémon. Pokémon on the target's field receive damage upon switching in. The amount of damage inflicted upon switching in is affected by type effectiveness against Rock. It also does not stack if multiple layers are set. It does not damage Pokémon with the Ability Magic Guard. The moves Rapid Spin and Defog remove the effect of Stealth Rock; Rapid Spin removes Stealth Rock set around the Rapid Spinner while Defog removes Stealth Rock set around the target of Defog.

The damage is taken from the victim's maximum HP, and follows:
Type effectiveness

Damage (Max. HP)
0.25× 3.125%
0.5× 6.25%
1× 12.5%
2× 25%
4× 50%
Regardless of the weather, as Castform transforms after entry hazards are in effect, Castform only takes 12.5% damage.
Generation V
Stealth Rock can now be reflected by Magic Coat.

Generation VI onwards
Defog now clears Stealth Rock from both sides.

- would be cool if our Corrosion user would/could be immune to stelth rocks by entering battle and could destroy them with a poison type move.

-checked you, good that with mystic terrain and toxic spikes.

 

[Harryghost]

- then what about armors? or liquid bodies of sticky hoold users? snow ? for me hail and rocks are the same if something protects from hail then stealth rocks also should be included. Not that many pokemon have overcoat. (mandibuzz)

Ummm... Overcoat (Ability) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

-anime??? this are the games.

Spoiler

Stealth Rock sets an entry hazard around the target Pokémon. Pokémon on the target's field receive damage upon switching in. The amount of damage inflicted upon switching in is affected by type effectiveness against Rock. It also does not stack if multiple layers are set. It does not damage Pokémon with the Ability Magic Guard. The moves Rapid Spin and Defog remove the effect of Stealth Rock; Rapid Spin removes Stealth Rock set around the Rapid Spinner while Defog removes Stealth Rock set around the target of Defog.

The damage is taken from the victim's maximum HP, and follows:
Type effectiveness

Damage (Max. HP)
0.25× 3.125%
0.5× 6.25%
1× 12.5%
2× 25%
4× 50%
Regardless of the weather, as Castform transforms after entry hazards are in effect, Castform only takes 12.5% damage.
Generation V
Stealth Rock can now be reflected by Magic Coat.

Generation VI onwards
Defog now clears Stealth Rock from both sides.

Well, how moves actually work are better explained through the anime. No? Okay, well...

- would be cool if our Corrosion user would/could be immune to stelth rocks by entering battle and could destroy them with a poison type move.

Not sure why you think so. Real life rocks take long to be corroded by natural means, and I don't think poison affects them much at all. There is no reason I can think of for the opposite to happen in the games' reality.

-checked you, good that with mystic terrain and toxic spikes.

 

[Matleo]

Ummm... Overcoat (Ability) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

9 evolution families, many bug pokemon, some have other good abilities too. That not much.

Not sure why you think so. Real life rocks take long to be corroded by natural means, and I don't think poison affects them much at all. There is no reason I can think of for the opposite to happen in the games' reality.

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there are more of these with gold and other things

nature? they can make what they want with imagination.

 

[Harryghost]

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there are more of these with gold and other things

nature? they can make what they want with imagination.

1. I guess I stand corrected.
   
2. Well, metal =/= rock...
   
3. Go to 1.

Yes, we learn something new everyday!

 

[Stratelier]

yes, but how many damage should Stealth Rocks do? like 2 layers? to not nerf it too much.

I have no good ideas here, but one thought is that the standard damage is still 1/8; single resistance drops it to 1/16 and double resistance negates it outright. Single weakness makes it 1/6 and double weak makes it 1/4.

Or, alternately, any resistance makes them immune to Stealth Rock while any weakness makes it 1/4.

Good that we have Magic Bounce (why does Delibird not get that instead of one of its 2 non sleeping abilities).

Magic Guard also makes the user immune to entry hazards, Stealth Rock included.

 

[Matleo]

makes the user immune to entry hazards, Stealth Rock included.

would add some abilities that especially Overcoat.
Magician thoretically should take the oponents stelthrock and make it your own when entring battle that it could hurt the foe and not you.

 

[Muur]

We already have Stealth Rocks. I guess they could expand it to do more damage to levitate users but eh it's better being based on types.

 

[Matleo]

We already have Stealth Rocks. I guess they could expand it to do more damage to levitate users but eh it's better being based on types.

theoretically should magnet rise(if they let us use it on the oponen too not only the user) or telekinesis whe used on a levitating or flying oponent also have a diffrent effect then on a landmoving one? taking it down to the ground with damage like Take Down? interact more with Gravitate?

 

[lavandula]

Um... do any of you play VGC?

I'd say Levitate > Flying type > magnet rise
Levitate is decidedly better in terms of VGC as it adds an immunity without the cost of more weaknesses.
Flying type add ground immunity, but at a cost of several weaknesses, especially rock types which is frequently used in VGC.
Magnetic rise is not practical in VGC as it wastes a turn to set up.

 

[Matleo]

Um... do any of you play VGC?

I'd say Levitate > Flying type > magnet rise
Levitate is decidedly better in terms of VGC as it adds an immunity without the cost of more weaknesses.
Flying type add ground immunity, but at a cost of several weaknesses, especially rock types which is frequently used in VGC.
Magnetic rise is not practical in VGC as it wastes a turn to set up.

I would add :
magnet rise > telekinesis

It really would be cool if Telekinesis could work with psychic and other types like Curse does with ghost and other types.

But only that if a psychic type uses Telekinesis on itself and not on oponent during a single battle then it would work like magnet rise without the accuracy check.
When on the oponent would work like it did till now.
Would make it work 5 turns like Magnet Rise.


- Magnet Rise should also add a immunity to the Steel Type but maybe only to eletric types that use it.
Taking that it works 5 turns.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Should Levitate and flying, telekinesis and magnet rise protect also from other moves then the "ground type" only?

Moves coming from underground, on the ground or from the ground under them?

Like:

Surf (avoid the wave??? how high can it be??? should hit levitating ones but not flying)
Muddy Water (could hit flying but not levitating ones)
Frenzy Plant ( maybe only levitate and magnet rise)
Rock Tomb (often in anime they show it that rocks come from the ground),
Glaciate
Grass,Fire and Water Pledge

Do we have more of this kind of moves?

In future they could add new moves like Magma river, Geyser.