Where are the zoos?

[Morningstar]

I noticed an interesting omission in the Pokemon world. In a world where people coexist with magical beasts there doesn't seem to be a single zoo in the game.

The closest things so far were the Safari Zones but those had been discontinued since Sinnoh (or Kalos if you're feeling charitable).

I make this thread to ask about this omission and it's reasons, and how it relates to the relationship betwixt man and mon.

 

[Greninjaman]

Considering that we got creatures that can breathe fire, shoot lightning, use psychic powers, and so on, I'm not really surprised there aren't any zoos in Pokémon. Like, how do you contain a Pokémon that can just teleport out of the pen? How do you contain a Machamp? Sure, some might behave enough to keep them in an enclosure.

 

[beasttrash]

I always think about that mini-zoo in Fuschia City with Slowpoke on display. I don't know if that counts, or its considered a part of the Safari Zone in general. But its probably the closest thing to a zoo I can think of.

I also wonder if that is just an example of Early-Installment Weirdness, and like the relationship between Humans and Pokemon evolved differently to a point where zoos don't really make much sense in the worldbuilding?

 

[NumberOneSpinelApologist]

The best argument for the existence of ZOOs IRL is species conservation. But AFAIK there are no "endangered" species in the Pokémon world.
The other good argument is scientific research. But there are plenty of better ways to do it in the Pokémon world. Field research for behavior observation is always better. Simply asking the Pokémon to help out with it is also better.
So there is actually no good justification for zoos in world considering the downsides, that in the case of Pokémon, would be mostly that keeping them in unnatural conditions can be harmful.to them if donę wrong

 

[Bolt Strike]

But AFAIK there are no "endangered" species in the Pokémon world.

Actually there are. For one, Farfetch'd is endangered due to humans hunting it for food. Fossils are also in the process of being repopulated and mostly only seem to exist through reviving their fossils.

 

[NumberOneSpinelApologist]

I did not remember about Farfetch'd s. But still, making A Farfetch'd reserve would be a better solution than a zoo in this situation.
Reintroducing/restitution/repopulation of formerly extinct species to the environment is also a completely different beast as well. I imagine creating something like in Białowieża would work well as a first step, but still, that was not exactly a zoo

 

[da man/man]

While there are some endangered Pokemon (like Lapras, Farfetch'd and I think Barraskewda) I think Pokemon are just must harder to contain than regular animals. Animals are already barely get contained in zoos, even as the technology is improving, so a Rillaboom, Feraligatr, or Charizard could easily do some real damage. And field research via Pokedexes has already proven to be the most effective way of researching wild Pokemon, so a zoo doesn't provide much in that department either.

 

[Greninjaman]

While there are some endangered Pokemon (like Lapras, Farfetch'd and I think Barraskewda) I think Pokemon are just must harder to contain than regular animals. Animals are already barely get contained in zoos, even as the technology is improving, so a Rillaboom, Feraligatr, or Charizard could easily do some real damage. And field research via Pokedexes has already proven to be the most effective way of researching wild Pokemon, so a zoo doesn't provide much in that department either.

Exactly! While seeing a Charizard in a zoo would be really cool, I imagine that it would be a safety/fire hazard even if the Charizard is friendly and well-behaved. One wrong move and the place goes up in flames.

 

[Bolt Strike]

While there are some endangered Pokemon (like Lapras, Farfetch'd and I think Barraskewda) I think Pokemon are just must harder to contain than regular animals. Animals are already barely get contained in zoos, even as the technology is improving, so a Rillaboom, Feraligatr, or Charizard could easily do some real damage. And field research via Pokedexes has already proven to be the most effective way of researching wild Pokemon, so a zoo doesn't provide much in that department either.

That's assuming a Pokemon wants to escape. You really tend not to see that unless the Pokemon is mistreated, and in some instances you actually tend to see them integrate into human environments. And we have seen researchers create habitats to study Pokemon, so a zoo isn't that much of a stretch.

I think the real reason they've moved away from zoos is because they tend to portray Pokemon as more sapient, equal partners and zoos keep animals in captivity (and there's fair reasons for that, but it's not 100% free of controversy) and that doesn't feel appropriate for how they've characterized Pokemon.

 

[Daren]

I think the real reason they've moved away from zoos is because they tend to portray Pokemon as more sapient, equal partners and zoos keep animals in captivity (and there's fair reasons for that, but it's not 100% free of controversy) and that doesn't feel appropriate for how they've characterized Pokemon.

Yeah, with how they're often portrayed now instead of zoos I could see something more like a "meet and greet" where a Gym or some prominent trainer lets people come to interact with their Pokémon. Trained Pokémon seem a lot more predictable and easy to communicate with than real life animals could be and if a very young child accidentally angers or hurts your Persian it won't bite them or anything.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Yeah, with how they're often portrayed now instead of zoos I could see something more like a "meet and greet" where a Gym or some prominent trainer lets people come to interact with their Pokémon. Trained Pokémon seem a lot more predictable and easy to communicate with than real life animals could be and if a very young child accidentally angers or hurts your Persian it won't bite them or anything.

This too. Pokemon are far easier to domesticate than real life animals since you can catch pretty much any species and it'll get along with humans provided it's treated well (which is very unlike the real world, it takes centuries of evolution and interactions with humans to domesticate an animal IRL). So something like this would be a much more feasible way for the average person (as in, someone who's not a professional researcher) to come learn about particular species of Pokemon. Likely some of those habitats I mentioned in my previous post have done something similar, even if the staff doesn't directly catch and train the Pokemon they've probably at least conditioned them to interact better with humans.

 

[terashards]

in speaking of conservation, yes lusamine was/became a nutjob but the aether foundation is a legitimate organization dedicated to pokemon conservation and rehab. i think their setup makes a lot more sense than a zoo. technically i'm pretty sure you can take a tour of their conservation area but there's a really big difference between the aether foundation and a zoo. it reminds me a lot of a bird sanctuary near where i live; they have "ambassador birds" (birds who can't go back to the wild for whatever reason) which they show off at events to educate people on birds and the work they do, but most of the work they do is focused on research and rehab and is done privately away from outside eyes.

i think the main issue with zoos are what everyone else is talking about here with being like... kinda against the idea of pokemon being equals to humans, especially in recent pokemon media. it would feel weird keeping a pikachu in a pen like that when pikachu is like, a whole guy you know (not that real animals don't deserve dignity & respect but i think we can agree that pokemon are on a level of sapience above the average zoo animal and exist on a plane of society much closer to people)

 

[da man/man]

in speaking of conservation, yes lusamine was/became a nutjob but the aether foundation is a legitimate organization dedicated to pokemon conservation and rehab. i think their setup makes a lot more sense than a zoo. technically i'm pretty sure you can take a tour of their conservation area but there's a really big difference between the aether foundation and a zoo. it reminds me a lot of a bird sanctuary near where i live; they have "ambassador birds" (birds who can't go back to the wild for whatever reason) which they show off at events to educate people on birds and the work they do, but most of the work they do is focused on research and rehab and is done privately away from outside eyes.

i think the main issue with zoos are what everyone else is talking about here with being like... kinda against the idea of pokemon being equals to humans, especially in recent pokemon media. it would feel weird keeping a pikachu in a pen like that when pikachu is like, a whole guy you know (not that real animals don't deserve dignity & respect but i think we can agree that pokemon are on a level of sapience above the average zoo animal and exist on a plane of society much closer to people)

I'm not going to deep dive into the ethical questionability of zoos, since I feel depending on their opinions, every person deserves a different answer on that. But to add on to this, the Aether Foundation is a perfect example of the difference of a research facility vs something like a zoo. Something I actually learned recently both through school(Nature & Biology class my beloved) and my own personal interests in the subject is, animal sanctuaries that act like a "search and rescue" of sorts which seek out injured and domesticated animals and re-train/teach them to survive and support themselves in the wild before released to suitable habitats. There's those, and then there's establishments like the bird sanctuary you mention that do some of that, but also private research, which I think the Aether Paradise represents pretty well.

And even besides the difficulty of keeping powerful Pokemon in containment for long periods of time, more humanoid Pokemon like Medicham and Hitmonchan, would just look plain weird in a zoo. And considering the telepathic capabilities of Pokemon like Beheeyem and Gardevoir, that could cause more issues if they try to converse with humans. The natural survival response when in captivity is to try and escape, when uncomfortable. And Pokemon are more than equipped to do that. (And yeah, the Pokemon world treats Pokemon more equally than the real world with animals sometimes)

 

[NumberOneSpinelApologist]

I was going to add it in in my first post but edited it out to not to encroach on the ethics subject too much, but since the topic was mentioned anyway...
Obviously using living beings as a source of entertainment without much regard for their safety, personhood, dignity, or consent is highly unethical irl, which is a big argument against ZOOs IRL. Those issues though in the Pokémon world do not really apply though, since... Well...The entire franchise is based on the concept of battles between non-human sentient beings for sport and human entertainment, essentially.
(Thankfully fiction is not reality and enjoying Pokémon battles in the Pokémon franchise does not mean endorsing, say, bull fights IRL.)

So that turns us back to OPs question, and that could indeed lead us to interpret the fact of not having ZOOs there an omission, since entertainment of the public is a big part of them.

But anyway, still, yeah, it does seem that the personhood of Pokémon in the pokemon world is generally more widely recognized than that of animals in ours. I am willing to bet that even me using the word "personhood" when talking about animals will be surprising to most. The language we use about non-human animals tells a lot about societal attitudes towards them.

think we can agree that pokemon are on a level of sapience above the average zoo animal

I am not sure if I can agree, but this would become an interdisciplinary discussion about anthropology of animals, ethology, neuroscience and philosophy of mind, way beyond the scope of this forum. The whole premise of basing decisions about what kind of treatment of other beings is OK based on somehow measuring their level of sapience could also be very justly questioned. Again, whole other can of caterpies. Sorry for being a nerd. I can't help it.

And yeah, the Pokemon world treats Pokemon more equally than the real world with animals sometimes)

More like almost always, unfortunately

 

[terashards]

But anyway, still, yeah, it does seem that the personhood of Pokémon in the pokemon world is generally more widely recognized than that of animals in ours.

mm i think i worded my original post poorly because this is moreso what i mean (the perception of people and how they are treated in society), i think in terms of actual level of sapience it was my bad for making a big generalization because pokemon vary in intelligence and so do real animals (though of course i agree that all animals regardless of perceived sapience are deserving of respect!)
basically i'm just thinking of like mewtwo in comparison to a fish you know

 

[NumberOneSpinelApologist]

mm i think i worded my original post poorly because this is moreso what i mean (the perception of people and how they are treated in society), i think in terms of actual level of sapience it was my bad for making a big generalization because pokemon vary in intelligence and so do real animals (though of course i agree that all animals regardless of perceived sapience are deserving of respect!)
basically i'm just thinking of like mewtwo in comparison to a fish you know

I was not implying you said anything wrong BTW! I just love infodumping about this sort of thing lol

 

[da man/man]

basically i'm just thinking of like mewtwo in comparison to a fish you know

That's how I interpreted the first time, but I see how easily that could be misread. If more animals had posable thumbs they'd be more recognized and treated higher, even if that doesn't inherently increase their sapience. If that's a weird comparison I'm sorry I just came off of writing with my brother about a post-apocalyptic world where Orcas had thumbs and ruled society. My brain is fried.

 

[NumberOneSpinelApologist]

That's how I interpreted the first time, but I see how easily that could be misread. If more animals had posable thumbs they'd be more recognized and treated higher, even if that doesn't inherently increase their sapience. If that's a weird comparison I'm sorry I just came off of writing with my brother about a post-apocalyptic world where Orcas had thumbs and ruled society. My brain is fried.

I think what you are saying is 100% on point
And also now I want to read that conworld lol

 

[RichestAirPirate]

I wanna say that the Safari Zone is the closest thing to a Pokémon Zoo. Maybe the Terarium too but that's more of a huge man made nature reserve/habitat for Pokémon.

But AFAIK there are no "endangered" species in the Pokémon world.

There's actually numerous Pokémon species that have been endangered or overhunted or are near extinction. Farfetch'd, Lapras, Sharpedo, and Kangaskhan are a few of em. Some Pokémon species do get protected by law, the Slowpoke on an Ula Ula beach in Alola are an example, so it is possible that an endangered Pokémon species can be preserved in some way.

This too. Pokemon are far easier to domesticate than real life animals since you can catch pretty much any species and it'll get along with humans provided it's treated well (which is very unlike the real world, it takes centuries of evolution and interactions with humans to domesticate an animal IRL). So something like this would be a much more feasible way for the average person (as in, someone who's not a professional researcher) to come learn about particular species of Pokemon. Likely some of those habitats I mentioned in my previous post have done something similar, even if the staff doesn't directly catch and train the Pokemon they've probably at least conditioned them to interact better with humans.

i think the main issue with zoos are what everyone else is talking about here with being like... kinda against the idea of pokemon being equals to humans, especially in recent pokemon media.

While Pokémon are fairly easy to domesticate, especially compared to animals IRL, I feel like putting Pokémon in pens when they're portrayed as our friends and partners in everyday human life is odd. Like, why are we putting our friends in cages on public display?

And even besides the difficulty of keeping powerful Pokemon in containment for long periods of time, more humanoid Pokemon like Medicham and Hitmonchan, would just look plain weird in a zoo.

This exactly. Like who the heck is gonna wanna see a Sawk in a zoo?

To give my own two cents, I feel like a Pokémon Zoo with enclosures and barriers and all that is kind of unnatural. Even if domesticated and tamed, a good handful of these creatures have intelligence that surpasses humans and sometimes even our best technology and often posses strength that can break through containment. But let's say a Pokémon wouldn't want to escape. Let's say we got some domesticated Pokémon on our hands. Well, then we gotta give them large enough exhibits that mimic their habitat enough for them to do their thing. Like, we'd need big Savannah like fields for Zebstrikas and Dodrios to run in. We'd need a huge mountain sized areas for things like Aggron or Steelix. And tbh, I feel like it could be likely that the barriers and walls get shattered by the Pokémon just doing their natural thing.

 

[LegendsCelebi]

Besides the practical and ethical arguments I believe there can also be a cultural one. The people in the Pokemon world seems to aspire to a "life in harmony between pokemon and humans". This is most of the time only in saying and also quite often ends badly for at least one of the parties and/or gets subverted by a villain... But so are the lofty and noble ideals of the real world, so there's that.

Within a society so strongly oriented towards a particular ethical goal actions that go egregiously against this goal would be frowned upon - and not undertaken in an endorsing way. We can have evil villains holding captive pokemon, but when we find them we send top notch operatives - 10-year-olds, usually - to deal with such a situation. We cannot have organised, legal pokemon captivity-without-partnership because how would that make us look?! And when people do drop Pokemon into artificially limited spaces for entertainment this is done with at least a pretence of freedom for the 'mons in question like safari zones or "wild zones". Zoos go against the "harmony" as clearly one-sided and coercive.