Which goal is more difficult; Pokemon Trainer or Coordinator?

[Paulisthebest]

It’s been debated a lot in the anime (mostly between Ash and Dawn in DP 004 when Nando couldn’t decide what to do).

To me I’d say Contests are more difficult because you have to compete in contests against dozens of other coordinators to win 1 ribbon. But in Gyms you only need to defeat the Gym Leader. Not only that you have to do 2 rounds of appeal; the 1st is like Show and Tell and only a handful make it to the next round which is taking your battle strategies and appeal style into consideration trying to steal points and not only that…you have a TIME LIMIT!!

If you lose in the 1st round or 2nd round that’s it its over there is no rematch until that city has a contest next year. In terms of gyms, you can just come back to the gym anytime (if the leader is there) and re-challenge them.

Yes, there are only a minimum of 8 badges to get for a league, but still sometimes coordinators go to probably a dozen or more contests just to get 5 ribbons.

Then around GF time, you are up against a lot more people but the stakes are higher because you have to have you’re A-game on. Just like a league, one lose and you’re gone. But I’d feel more pain from losing at a GF than a league.

Which path do you think is more difficult to pursue Contest on the road to the GF or Gym Battles on the way to the Pokemon League?

 

[chimera]

Contests, because you have to worry about how you execute your attacks as well as winning the battle.
That said, people with goals like Nando's have it the hardest.

 

[Cybersai]

Coordinator, only because when you lose at a Gym you can just stay in that town and re-challenge the same Gym.

When you lose a Contest, you have to travel around to find the next one.

 

[Kip]

I disagree. I think it would be more difficult to be a trainer entering in a Pokemon League. Not necessarily because I think collecting badges would be easier than collecting ribbons, but because I think making it through the league itself would be more challenging. You're one of about a hundred trainers who made it there, all determined to be the winner. Generally, you have to win different types of battles to reach the finals. 1v1 preliminaries, in some leagues, several 3v3 matches, and then several full 6 on 6 battles. No one's holding back, and every trainer is different. For each battle you have to go into it not knowing definitively what pokemon your opponent will be using- you can look them up sure, but there's no guaranteed way of predicting their exact lineup. And you can't predict their battle style either. Each battle will be different, and you generally have to rely on a combination of strategy, skill, and just plain luck to clinch the win. There are no judges, no time limit, it's a free-for-all-who's-truly-the-better-trainer-with-skillfully-trained-pokemon-and-not-just-the-lucky-one-who-was-ahead-when-the-time-ran-out. I'd be far more disappointed after losing in the finals of a Pokemon League, than losing in the finals of a Grand Festival. You have to go through a lot more battles to make it there for a league, which would, for me, create more of a let-down.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

I disagree. I think it would be more difficult to be a trainer entering in a Pokemon League. Not necessarily because I think collecting badges would be easier than collecting ribbons, but because I think making it through the league itself would be more challenging. You're one of about a hundred trainers who made it there, all determined to be the winner. Generally, you have to win different types of battles to reach the finals. 1v1 preliminaries, in some leagues, several 3v3 matches, and then several full 6 on 6 battles. No one's holding back, and every trainer is different. For each battle you have to go into it not knowing definitively what pokemon you're opponent will be using- you can look them up sure, but there's no guaranteed way of predicting their exact lineup. And you can't predict their battle style either. Each battle will be different, and you generally have to rely on a combination of strategy, skill, and just plain luck to clinch the win. There are no judges, no time limit, it's a free-for-all-who's-truly-the-better-trainer-with-skillfully-trained-pokemon-and-not-just-the-lucky-one-who-was-ahead-when-the-time-ran-out. I'd be far more disappointed after losing in the finals of a Pokemon League, than losing in the finals of a Grand Festival. You have to go through a lot more battles to make it there for a league, which would, for me, create more of a let-down.

I agree completely besides who said it was that easy to win badges remember those 2 guys in pallet who gave up even though they were on fire at first. Not to mention in AG May was constantly making mistakes while Ash in AG got everything down he still lost a gym battle and to a elite four member also he barely won every match but he was still golden. May had a lot to learn and still managed to get as far in the GF as Ash did in the Pokemon League. And let's not start on Dawn.

 

[Charbok]

They're both challenging in their own way. Coming up with different combinations and attacks for a coordinator can be challenging. Plus if you lost at a gym, you can always go back and challenge that gym again. If you lose a contest then you have to wait until another one is announced. Plus I assume there's a certain amount of contests that take place in a region so if you lose too many of them then you won't have all the ribbons you need. A gym you can just keep challenging until you finally win.

But the Pokemon League is much more difficult to me for the exact reasons Kip stated.

 

[Cybersai]

I agree completely besides who said it was that easy to win badges remember those 2 guys in pallet who gave up even though they were on fire at first. Not to mention in AG May was constantly making mistakes while Ash in AG got everything down he still lost a gym battle and to a elite four member also he barely won every match but he was still golden. May had a lot to learn and still managed to get as far in the GF as Ash did in the Pokemon League. And let's not start on Dawn.

What does this have to do with anything? The Grand Festivals are different than the leagues. Likewise May only made it to the Top 8 in the Hoenn GF, so its not like she got very far on her first time.

Likewise Ash *almost* beat Tyson. Seriously, Ash was much closer to winning the Hoenn league than the Sinnoh league. In fact I could have easily seen Ash win the Hoenn league because Tyson was almost defeated and Tyson went on to win the whole thing.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

What does this have to do with anything? The Grand Festivals are different than the leagues. Likewise May only made it to the Top 8 in the Hoenn GF, so its not like she got very far on her first time.

Likewise Ash *almost* beat Tyson. Seriously, Ash was much closer to winning the Hoenn league than the Sinnoh league. In fact I could have easily seen Ash win the Hoenn league because Tyson was almost defeated and Tyson went on to win the whole thing.

How does this not have to do with this? May got just as far as Ash did despite the experience differences all I'm saying. Top 8 is pretty far considering how many people enter. And what do you mean they are different? One easier to get to the 8 than the other.
Therefore winning the league is harder then winning the GF simple as that.

 

[Paulisthebest]

You've all made some valid points and I mean from both sides those who think battles are harder than contests and vice versa. I will say this; Contests are a bit difficult come GF time because sometimes you have to go through 2 Appeal Rounds before you even get to the final round of Double Battles.

The same in Pokemon Leagues when you have to get to the Top 8 or 16 to get to the full battles. There as some of you have mentioned you are up against opponents that may or may not use the same Pokemon or strategies throughout the tournament no matter what their league computer data says about them. Yes, there is no time limit here so pulling a nonsense sort of win here is not going to cut it there are 6 Pokemon to beat not 2 in a double battle with a 5 minute clock.

So, overall its tough to say which one has the hardest road for a person to travel on but the poll is almost at a draw, can't wait to see how it looks in a couple of days!

BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One thing no one has mentioned is that even if you win a league, there is still the challenge of the Elite 4 and Champion. Ok, now that I've thrown that into the barrel discuss! How does that add to the difficulty of being a Pokemon Trainer compared to that or a Coordinator that reaches the top after winning the GF.

 

[Chronos]

I think both have their fair share of difficulties. With gyms, as was said, if you lose, you can always rechallenge the gym later. You can't do that with contests.

I think to balance this, they make it so that you have to earn eight badges and with contests, since there's not very high odds that you'll win the whole thing because so many people enter them, they make it so you only have to earn five ribbons. It would be way too hard to enter the GF if you had to earn eight ribbons.

Being a Pokemon Trainer may be a bit more difficult though, because in order to be the champion of the region, you have to win the league AND beat the entire Elite Four (which I imagine would be a lot more difficult in the anime than in-game) AND beat the current champion of that region.

 

[Cybersai]

How does this not have to do with this? May got just as far as Ash did despite the experience differences all I'm saying. Top 8 is pretty far considering how many people enter. And what do you mean they are different? One easier to get to the 8 than the other.
Therefore winning the league is harder then winning the GF simple as that.

Wrong. The difference is the appeal rounds eliminate a bunch of trainers before the battling even begins.

The fact that you can lose the appeals, as Kenny did in the Sinnoh GF, and see all your hard work go downt he drain makes it much tougher.

 

[Kip]

I think both have their fair share of difficulties. With gyms, as was said, if you lose, you can always rechallenge the gym later. You can't do that with contests.

I think to balance this, they make it so that you have to earn eight badges and with contests, since there's not very high odds that you'll win the whole thing because so many people enter them, they make it so you only have to earn five ribbons. It would be way too hard to enter the GF if you had to earn eight ribbons.

I agree with the above, but to expand on it, I don't really see how its any easier to earn five ribbons than eight badges. Sure, you can always re-challenge the same gym, but does that really make it easier to earn the badges? Most trainers train more before rematches, and figure out a strategy. Then they go back the next day, rematch, and hopefully win. They find out where the next gym is, and travel there. In a contest, if you lose, then you find out where the next contest is and you head there- training along the way. I don't see how there's much of a difference either way. The trainer may have gained another badge more quickly than the coordinator did a ribbon- but he/she also has to get more badges.

 

[Paulisthebest]

Kenny has the most legit gripe; he lost in the appeals round of the GF after getting 5 ribbons if should tell the writers, "Ok, you kick me out in the first round but you can't even give me my own farewell episode instead I have to share the limelight with Flint and a Gym Leader from the past in Johto?!! And then I get rejected by the girl I love from the same hometown!?!?!"

Writers; "Well to be honest Kenny, you're not interesting enough to be able to give a full episode to."

Kenny; "..."

 

[Shinneth]

Kinda goes without saying that people to pursue both like Nando does definitely have it the hardest. That actually serves as an accurate explanation for why he ranked so low in the Sinnoh League despite doing relatively well in the GF. One could say the GF wore him out, since the gap between the two events wasn't really that big, and no doubt it takes a hell of a lot of extra preparation to get your team to master the art of battling in addition to the art of contest-battling and appeals.

I always kinda assumed trainers have it harder because they have to earn almost twice as many qualification tokens than the coordinators have to, but the fact that there are a limited number of Contests that go on before the GF does make it a bit more stringent. Then again, both are dealing with a time limit either way. I gotta wonder, though, was it ever said outright that previously-won ribbons in a region can be re-used for any GF as long as it's in the same region? I'm pretty sure badges have that longevity, given that Ash initially turned down a battle with Agatha when he mentioned he already had the Viridian Gym's badge, but the ribbons seem much more vague. Especially with special ribbons like the Aqua Ribbon that are only eligible in the region of the winner's choosing. It doesn't seem like the sort of thing that can be recycled "next season", so to speak, but I dunno if that principle would apply for all ribbons.

Bottom line is, if old ribbons' eligibility is along the lines of badges, then I'd say it probably would be easier to be a Coordinator with some time and patience. Of course, it wouldn't apply to ribbons won by other people that are given to someone else (unless it's under-the-table like Salvia's ribbon was for Jessie), such as Johanna giving Dawn her old ribbon as a good-luck charm.

I think overall it kinda depends on the trainer/coordinator's natural talents. If you're a super-creative person from the get-go, by anime logic Contests would probably be as easily-won as May's were regardless of your experience. Though it would also help to know exactly how many Contests occcur per "season" - my guess is a lot given the evidence we've seen. Vivian/Marian/Lilian and the judges must have it worse than people employed by the WWE when it comes to a job where you spend 90% of the year traveling across the region. As a Coordinator, you're pretty much forced to follow them if you want to take every chance available to you for winning a ribbon, which would really suck. Trainers technically have to do that too, though once they find a gym they can just hover around there until they beat it, rather than having to move on to another location immediately after a first attempt.

Granted, it's not always a peace of cake to track down a Gym Leader if Fantina is any indication. Ash often had to deal with waiting for Gym Leaders to finish up whatever the hell they're distracted with before getting to battle them, which would suck hard if you're trying to make the deadline for the conference. Of course, Gym Leaders are usually forced to handicap themselves by not being allowed to switch out and whatnot, so it's almost assured you'll beat them eventually no matter how many times you lose. In Contests there isn't a handicap and you have no idea what you're going up against for the most part, so many Contests are more daunting than Gym Battles. The prospect of making appeals to please people who may or may not have a bias towards what they find impressive is also pretty messed up. Then again, while Gym Battles seem easier to handle because you know for the most part they're restricted towards a specific type, that can be a bitch to get through if your team happens to share a common weakness to the type, or if you're a masochist who wants to inflict Hard Mode on yourself by intentionally choosing the wrong types of Pokemon to win the battle.

... Though since the GF is basically a Contest on a grander scale and League Conferences are where you're thrown into a situation where you have no idea what kinda trainer you're going up against (unless you know them... and in the Sinnoh League, they give you a nice database to research your opponents), the terrain is randomly-chosen so that could really muck up a strategy, and overall the Leagues always seemed to be a bigger deal than GFs.

I... I don't know. This is complicated.

 

[Paulisthebest]

^^ Yeah, it is because the goal of a Coordinator is mainly becoming Top Coordinator and too do that you must get 5 ribbons and win the GF, while a Pokemon Master must get 8 badges, beat the league the Elite 4 AND the Champion in the Champion League.

See, the anime never told us what being a Pokemon Master is or how to get there but Ash said after seeing Flint vs. Cynthia that he was going to win the league and battle in the Champion League to become a Pokemon Master. Which could imply that in the games it is the same, beat the E4 and Champ and you're at the top.

If that is true then a trainer has it the toughest.

Contests are ridiculous when it comes to the judges. I think the same thing that Contesta, the announcer and Mr. "REMARKABLE" have it tough if they have to be at EVERY contest. I mean do they go to everyone of them in Kanto, Sinnoh and Hoenn? If so they are gone all of the time to judge em.

Yeah, contests are a bit more predictable in terms of the 5 minute rule, making your Pokemon shine etc. at the league you gotta go by battle instinct instead of knowing that the gym leader has a certain type, can't switch (unless they're Lenora)...

Yeah, the Silver Conference and Kanto League show'd us that every league probably keeps data online for competitors to look at their opponents. Personally, I'd probably use different Pokemon or at least rotate my team around so its not the same 6 each battle to mix things up and keep up the unpredictability of my moves.

About Contest Judge bias, well when Skitty did Assist Appeal at the Hoenn GF, he wasn't impressed because it was all of May's other Pokemon's moves and not Skitty's unique abilities. But I disagreed because I thought it was a great way to showcase all of May's team as a way of introducing them to the judges and audience.

I mean in battles, your Pokemon is called out if it is unable to battle but in contests it is whether or not your Pokemon has taken serious damage OR you're out of points.

I was watching the Hoenn GF today and its rough getting through the first round of appeals because out of 200+ coordinators only 64 could make it through and not only that a Pokemon can use only ONE move! In the league, some of them do screening battles or 1 on 1 battles to get rid of the dead-weight trainers. At least you have a fighting chance to make it through.

Poor Nando, yeah I feel like he is better suited for Contests, there was a little gap and I mean little between league and GF, but that doesn't mean he din't have time to train. He got all his ribbons before the badges but really that could be because he didn't lose as many contests as he did gym battles. Or because he only needed 5 ribbons which was easier for him to get first.

Ribbons don't expire, remember Dawn's mom had the friend with 4 ribbons and she battled Dawn but lost she only needed 1 ribbon to go to the GF, meaning that if you don't use your badges/ribbons to enter a league then I don't think they expire.

If I'm correct the league people behind the counter at the registration desks scan your ribbons/badges to make sure they're legit. But hey who knows that just might get you in and you can use em again unless after they scan em they KNOW whether or not you used em before. But we saw how badges are made before (at least the ones at Misty's gym) and I don't think there's some kind of computer device that lets leagues know if they have been used...Ok I can go on about this forever but it still won't make sense...

But if Ash actually goes to challenge Kanto again, I'd like him to face the gyms again to battle Forest (cause Brock is no longer gym leader) or finally get a REAL cool battle with Misty hopefully she'll finally have a Golduck. And get his 8 badges the right way without just getting them out of pity or something.

But yeah to each his own when it comes to which one is truly harder.

 

[Ampharos King]

The coordinator goal is obviously more difficult for the reasons stated above.

Pokemon Contests are only held once a year in each of the marked locations. There can only be one winner in each Pokemon Contest. Coordinators like Dawn, Zoey, Jessalina, and Kenny have lost at least one contest in the Sinnoh Region. The Pokemon Contests have an appeal round that will eliminate the bulk of the competition before the battling rounds can truly begin. At the very most, only eight registered contestants will advance to the battling rounds in typical contests. 30 or more coordinators will attempt to register for each contest. Well over 200 coordinators in each region may be eligible to compete in regional Grand Festivals. In the Sinnoh region, some contest halls might host double performance appeal rounds, intensifying the competition by placing further emphasis on how each pokemon can shine.

As a result, there will be a greater priority for coordinators training alongside their pokemon and attempting to perfect combinations. There is a lot of uncertainty in the contest arena, as the coordinator will have no idea who he or she will be competing against in contest battles and/or appeals. This lack of information or knowledge beforehand may make or break the coordinator's success rate, as opposed to a pokemon trainer who may be acquainted with the gym leader prior to the start of their match.

When one competes for Gym Badges instead, there will be less pressure on the trainer's behalf. If a trainer loses against a Gym Leader, he or she can simply rechallenge that Gym Leader at a later time. Furthermore, there will be less hassle on the trainer's part because Gym Leaders have relatively flexible schedules in which they will be able to battle challengers. There will always be Gym Leaders who will abandon the maintenence of their gyms or deny requests from challengers for personal manners, but such cases are very rare. [In the Kanto region, the Pokemon League Association penalizes gym leaders, or during extreme measures, shuts down the operations of pokemon gyms entirely if gym leaders do not adhere to their guidelines.]

Most Gym Leaders tend to specialize in one type of pokemon attacks, giving the challenger some flexibility in selecting which of their pokemon can be used in battle. These matches are typical 3-on-3 eliminations with no time limit, but may even be as large as 5-on-5 and 6-on-6 full battles. Contest battles tend to be 1-on-1 eliminations with a 5 minute time limit, adding more pressure on a coordinator to advance to the next round. In addition, gym challengers may be given the luxury to switch out their pokemon. This luxury is something that the gym leader may be denied. Of course, certain gym leaders like Lenora were able to switch out their pokemon against their challengers. This luxury is typically provided to the challenger regardless, but it may or may not be an advantage depending on the circumstances of each individual gym's rules.

The only disadvantage that a trainer has against a coordinator is the number of tokens that are required to enter the regional competition. Pokemon trainers need at least eight badges to compete in their regional league competition, whereas pokemon coordinators will only need five contest ribbons to compete in each regional Grand Festival. Of course, given the restricted nature of pokemon contests in general (as well as the number of contests that are held in a region each year), this "advantage" should also be discarded.

Pokemon trainers have a greater opportunity to reach their goal. That's not to say that coordinators aren't capable of reaching the Grand Festival or become the top of their class. This goal will require much more time and focus since pokemon contests not only judge the succession and efficiency of a pokemon's attacks, but will also judge the way a pokemon dodges or counters an opponent's attacks. Pokemon coordinators will be penalized if their pokemon's attacks do not land a hit against their opponent's. Pokemon trainers can simply disregard this and continue their battling.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

The coordinator goal is obviously more difficult for the reasons stated above.

Pokemon Contests are only held once a year in each of the marked locations. There can only be one winner in each Pokemon Contest. Coordinators like Dawn, Zoey, Jessalina, and Kenny have lost at least one contest in the Sinnoh Region. The Pokemon Contests have an appeal round that will eliminate the bulk of the competition before the battling rounds can truly begin. At the very most, only eight registered contestants will advance to the battling rounds in typical contests. 30 or more coordinators will attempt to register for each contest. Well over 200 coordinators in each region may be eligible to compete in regional Grand Festivals. In the Sinnoh region, some contest halls might host double performance appeal rounds, intensifying the competition by placing further emphasis on how each pokemon can shine.

As a result, there will be a greater priority for coordinators training alongside their pokemon and attempting to perfect combinations. There is a lot of uncertainty in the contest arena, as the coordinator will have no idea who he or she will be competing against in contest battles and/or appeals. This lack of information or knowledge beforehand may make or break the coordinator's success rate, as opposed to a pokemon trainer who may be acquainted with the gym leader prior to the start of their match.

When one competes for Gym Badges instead, there will be less pressure on the trainer's behalf. If a trainer loses against a Gym Leader, he or she can simply rechallenge that Gym Leader at a later time. Furthermore, there will be less hassle on the trainer's part because Gym Leaders have relatively flexible schedules in which they will be able to battle challengers. There will always be Gym Leaders who will abandon the maintenence of their gyms or deny requests from challengers for personal manners, but such cases are very rare. [In the Kanto region, the Pokemon League Association penalizes gym leaders, or during extreme measures, shuts down the operations of pokemon gyms entirely if gym leaders do not adhere to their guidelines.]

Most Gym Leaders tend to specialize in one type of pokemon attacks, giving the challenger some flexibility in selecting which of their pokemon can be used in battle. These matches are typical 3-on-3 eliminations with no time limit, but may even be as large as 5-on-5 and 6-on-6 full battles. Contest battles tend to be 1-on-1 eliminations with a 5 minute time limit, adding more pressure on a coordinator to advance to the next round. In addition, gym challengers may be given the luxury to switch out their pokemon. This luxury is something that the gym leader may be denied. Of course, certain gym leaders like Lenora were able to switch out their pokemon against their challengers. This luxury is typically provided to the challenger regardless, but it may or may not be an advantage depending on the circumstances of each individual gym's rules.

The only disadvantage that a trainer has against a coordinator is the number of tokens that are required to enter the regional competition. Pokemon trainers need at least eight badges to compete in their regional league competition, whereas pokemon coordinators will only need five contest ribbons to compete in each regional Grand Festival. Of course, given the restricted nature of pokemon contests in general (as well as the number of contests that are held in a region each year), this "advantage" should also be discarded.

Pokemon trainers have a greater opportunity to reach their goal. That's not to say that coordinators aren't capable of reaching the Grand Festival or become the top of their class. This goal will require much more time and focus since pokemon contests not only judge the succession and efficiency of a pokemon's attacks, but will also judge the way a pokemon dodges or counters an opponent's attacks. Pokemon coordinators will be penalized if their pokemon's attacks do not land a hit against their opponent's. Pokemon trainers can simply disregard this and continue their battling.

That makes sense except the competition is way tougher for trainer because far more people care about the league. Evidenced by Ash not knowing about the damn contest until he competed in the league TWICE. I remember Gliscor'd mentioning that Kenny worked so hard and lost at the appear round. What about the screening rounds? Heatran guy didn't get to fight and he had a bloody Heatran.

Like Paulisthebest said to be a pokemon master you have to win the tournament beat the elite four beat the champion. Then do something else. Some people define it as catching all the pokemon. You know hard that sounds?

To be a top coordinator you have win once. To get Wallace status you have to win until you're famous which shouldn't be that hard after you won once. Also if Ash is any model the league pressures you into raising more Pokemon than six witch takes far more time and effort. Dawn has six pokemon and she almost won. Ash has crazy amount pokemon and just recently made it to the semifinals.

People keep mentioning you have to compete against other people to get ribbons. But gym leaders in canon are not push overs. Remember that kid was impressed with Ash's TWO BADGES. Not to mention you have to get eight badges.

 

[Jukain]

I'd have to say they balance out, too. Being a trainer, indeed, you can fight the gyms over and over, but the League is extremely tense. We've seen it could take years to become skilled enough to win a League. I'm not even going to touch upon the Champion League, because I assume not everyone opts for that. But indeed, it could take a while to get anywhere there as well. For Contests, indeed it is like constantly being in the League. You're always in a tournament structure, and then the GF itself is like a larger scale version of that, equal to the League. The road is harder, but to make up for it, they give you more chances. Who knows how many contests a region can have before the GF comes around? The means for both are difficult for different reasons, but they both involve strategy. I guess technically, Coordinators do have it rougher, but their goal is just as taxing as winning a League. As for Nando, that would indeed be incredibly difficult, but if done correctly, they may be even stronger than regular trainers since their lives are about finding different ways to do their moves. Trainers often have to take longer to discover the same things.

 

[SolgaleoGX]

It all really depends on what one aims at as a Coordinator or Trainer. But if we take into consideration the highest known achievements of both, Elite Four Champion and Grand Festival Champion. Then trainer. Cause seriously..Zoey won a GF on her first try..wtf?

 

[Almonds]

They're hard in their own ways. But I guess it could be much more challenging for people who go for both